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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 05-04-2009, 07:57 PM   #1
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GMPP Camshaft

I have a couple of questions. Is it possible to change the camshaft with the motor still mounted in the car? Also at what horsepower/torque would you say the internals should be changed to forged?

Thanks
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:56 PM   #2
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I would also like to know the easiest way to change the cam on this car. I've heard that you can change to the GMPP 376/480 cam and not have to change your valvesprings too. A cam change is never as simple as "the old days" on these new cars, its just a matter of how bad its going to be.
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitboy View Post
I would also like to know the easiest way to change the cam on this car. I've heard that you can change to the GMPP 376/480 cam and not have to change your valvesprings too. A cam change is never as simple as "the old days" on these new cars, its just a matter of how bad its going to be.
I'm guessing the 376/480 cam is the "Hot Cam", It does require new springs.

I was just quoted the whole package done by my dealer would run about $3200. That's for the cam, springs, gaskets and labor. They also said that "because the cam is not made specifically for the Camaro it would void the GM warranty."

They said 22 hours labor. Sounds like a lot to me.
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:52 AM   #4
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That is nearly 1k more than I woudl expect. Shop around you can get better numbers installed for a better price....I will post my cam info once the buildis comeplete!!!
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Originally Posted by CWIweldace View Post
I'm guessing the 376/480 cam is the "Hot Cam", It does require new springs.

I was just quoted the whole package done by my dealer would run about $3200. That's for the cam, springs, gaskets and labor. They also said that "because the cam is not made specifically for the Camaro it would void the GM warranty."

They said 22 hours labor. Sounds like a lot to me.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:20 AM   #5
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The advantage of doing it at the dealer is that usually it won't void your warranty/is warrantied by GM. In this case, I'd say take it to another shop unless they "make one specifically for the Camaro."
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:08 AM   #6
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The cam can definitely be swapped with the engine in the car, not sure how much work it will be. As for HP levels on stock internals, if you stay N/A, I think you will be pretty safe with full bolt ons, cam, intake, headers, exhaust, tune which should get you around 500 (flywheel)hp, maybe more. With some nice heads I am sure you could see 525 without too much trouble. Personally I would'nt want to extend the rpm range much without moving to forged components, it all just depends what you want to do with the car. Look at the GM performance engines they sell, such as the 515 hp version of the LS3, which has a better (carbureted) manifold, and the hot cam, so if that has the standard cast crank, etc. you know they have tested that combo to live.
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhawk View Post
The cam can definitely be swapped with the engine in the car, not sure how much work it will be. As for HP levels on stock internals, if you stay N/A, I think you will be pretty safe with full bolt ons, cam, intake, headers, exhaust, tune which should get you around 500 (flywheel)hp, maybe more. With some nice heads I am sure you could see 525 without too much trouble. Personally I would'nt want to extend the rpm range much without moving to forged components, it all just depends what you want to do with the car. Look at the GM performance engines they sell, such as the 515 hp version of the LS3, which has a better (carbureted) manifold, and the hot cam, so if that has the standard cast crank, etc. you know they have tested that combo to live.
+1 On the money
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:42 PM   #8
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The GMPP catalog (http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...09_Catalog.pdf) talks about the components in the LS engines on page 84 of the .pdf file.

Quote:
LS3/L99
Introduced on the 2008 Corvette, the LS3 brought LS base performance to an
unprecedented level: 430 horsepower from 6.2L (376 cubic-inches)—making it
the most powerful base Corvette engine in history. The LS3 block not only has
larger bores than the LS2, but a strengthened casting to support more powerful
6.2L engines. The LS3 is offered in the Pontiac G8 GXP and is also the standard
V-8 engine in the new, 2010 Camaro SS. The L99 version is equipped with GM’s
fuel-saving Active Fuel Management cylinder deactivation system and is standard
on 2010 Camaro SS models equipped with an automatic transmission.

Connecting Rods
LS connecting rods are very similar and mostly interchangeable. Most are made
of powdered metal, while the LS7 and LS9 rods are forged titanium. Rods
lengths are similar, too, at 6.098-inch for 5.3L, 5.7L, 6.0L and 6.2L engines. The
4.8L engine uses 6.275-inch rods and the LS7 uses 6.067-inch rods. Since 2006,
LS rods use bushed small ends. Also, LS6 rods bolts (P/N 11600158) offer a
strength-enhancing upgrade to pre-2000 engines. Finally, the LS7 and LS9 rods
have a slightly different size than other LS rods, requiring a unique bearing
(P/N 89017811).
Pistons
The LS9 is the only production LS engine with forged aluminum pistons; all the
other engines use hypereutectic (cast) aluminum alloy pistons—varied mostly
by diameter to accommodate various bore sizes. LS cast pistons shouldn’t
be used on applications greater than approximately 550 horsepower. The LS7
piston’s inner bracing and larger pin diameter require the use of the matching
LS7 connecting rod. The same is true for LS9 pistons; they require the use of LS9
connecting rods.
Crankshafts
Generally, LS crankshafts are similar in design, with identical 2.10-inch rod and
2.65-inch main journal sizes and a common rear main seal. All production LS
engines use iron crankshafts except the LS7, LS9 and LSA; they use forged
steel cranks (4.00-inch stroke on the LS7; 3.62-inch stroke on the LS9 and LSA).
The crankshaft sensing function of the distributorless ignition system depends
on reading the toothed reluctor wheel on the crankshaft. Early LS engines
mostly used 24-tooth wheels and upgraded a few years ago to 58-tooth (also
known as 58X) wheels. When building an LS engine, it is imperative that the
correct reluctor wheel is used with the compatible crankshaft position sensor
and ignition controller.
The crankshafts are mostly interchangeable, but the snouts on LS7 and LS9
crankshafts are approximately one-inch longer to accommodate their two-stage
oil pumps that work with the engines’ dry-sump oiling systems. These forged
crankshafts can be used on wet-sump engines by using a few specific components
and/or modifications (see page 218).
The easiest way to put a forged stroker crankshaft in your LS engine is using
GM Performance Parts’ new LSX crankshafts, which are available in four stroke
sizes up to 4.125 inches. They feature the standard-length snout and can be
used without modification on most engines. LS7 and LS9 crankshafts can be
used, but require special components and/or modifications to their snouts to
accommodate standard, wet-sump oiling systems.
So everything in an LS3 should hold up to 550 hp.

And you DO NOT have to replace the valve springs. The springs that come in the HOT cam kit are standard LS6 valve springs. The same springs that come stock on the LS3 heads. The HOT cam actually has less lift than the stock camshaft. So your dealer that is selling you the whole kit is ripping you off. Your brand new engine does not need to have the springs/shims replaced. And 3200??? That's robbery. But, if they honor your warranty, it could be worth it.
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Old 05-05-2009, 04:05 PM   #9
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Good info above ^^^ .. thanks,

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Old 05-05-2009, 04:07 PM   #10
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:42 AM   #11
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Wow...for 3200 I can do a lot of replacing of additional things myself further down the road. Thanks to all for the info. Lots of options to consider here, with the first one being that if I void my warranty with the long tube headers and the tune to go along with it most everything after that is a moot point. And thats pretty much a base starting point.

So its pretty much a decision to just add a cat back exhaust and keeping the warranty or going "all in" and tossing the warranty.

Looks like a good option would be to drive it stock for a year to make sure the drivetrain is fine, and just accumulate parts in the meanwhile. When I'm confident the drivetrain has no issues use the winter months to throw in the cam etc. and just do it all myself. Not much else to do for a few weeks mid winter anyhow, and thats what a heated garage is supposed to be used for. Back to basic hotrodding 101 and all the skinned knuckles that go along with it......
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68 View Post
The GMPP catalog (http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...09_Catalog.pdf) talks about the components in the LS engines on page 84 of the .pdf file.



So everything in an LS3 should hold up to 550 hp.

And you DO NOT have to replace the valve springs. The springs that come in the HOT cam kit are standard LS6 valve springs. .
First of all you can get the Hot Cam with or without the springs. The Hot Cam does have less lift. Bad is that with less lift there is less spring torque when the valves are closed, therefore the valves may tend to float easier and close slower. I think i would opt for the newer springs to remedy this. Better safe than sorry. And although there is less lift there is longer duration, This extended duration can fatigue the retainers. Some people may have good luck with stock parts but I for one am not going to half ass my work.
And there is no way I am paying The $3200 for a simple cam swap for a mild cam. I can get a more aggressive yet drivable cam and do it my self for a lot less.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:13 PM   #13
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What does the lower lift have to do with torquing the springs? They're going to be at the same installed height anyway. And the lower lift coupled with the longer duration will actually be easier on the springs because the camshaft ramp rate is slower than stock. I understand the springs will be compressed for a longer period of time, but slower compression rates are easier on springs than faster ones because of less heat build up.

Besides, as mentioned previously, the springs that come with the HOT cam are stock LS6 springs. Which just so happen to be the same springs that come in your brand new LS3. Now if you've got 40,000 miles on your car then sure, it's worth the extra $250 for the new springs, but if your car is brand new, IMO you're just wasting money.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:20 AM   #14
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Check out the new Hot Rod mag, for it has several aftermarket CAMS available for the LS3 engine.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:57 PM   #15
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What does the lower lift have to do with torquing the springs? They're going to be at the same installed height anyway. .
My bad, i was having a brain fart
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWIweldace View Post
I'm guessing the 376/480 cam is the "Hot Cam", It does require new springs.

I was just quoted the whole package done by my dealer would run about $3200. That's for the cam, springs, gaskets and labor. They also said that "because the cam is not made specifically for the Camaro it would void the GM warranty."

They said 22 hours labor. Sounds like a lot to me.
22 hours does sound like a lot of labor, but keep in mind there is a lot that has to be done. If they are going to do it in the car, they have to remove the grill, radiator, A/C condensor, etc. The intake manifold has to come off with the valve cover and the push rods have to be removed along with the lifters. The whole front end of the engine then has to come apart. Last but not least, the camshaft has to come out...carefully...so they don't nick any of the cam bearings and have to replace them in the process.

Then the whole thing has to go back together. Adjust the lifters, coolant back in, A/C recharged...there IS a lot of work involved in doing a camshaft.

The sad part is the warranty will be void? I would definitely wait until a camshaft for the Camaro comes out...but if you're not concerned about warranty...

Going through the process in my mind...22 hours may not be that far off. Especially on the newer cars.

I replaced a lot of camshafts in the early 80's camaro when I worked for GM waaaaay back when. (The lobes on the cams would wear down within a couple of thousand kilometers). I can't remember the exact times we were making, but it would have been less time anyway as we were working under warranty times which are lower than customer pay times.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:58 AM   #17
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I watched a video on youtube of a LS3 Corvette Cam Swap, and I have come to a conclusion about swapping a cam in a 2010 camaro with the engine still in place. I'm pretty sure you'd have to take the front fascia off to make a engine in car camaro cam swap possible.

Watch this video, and notice how much space you'd need between the engine and front fascia to successfully remove the stock cam and install an aftermarket one by looking at the length of the cam when it is removed from the motor.
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