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Old 04-25-2012, 04:32 PM   #1
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My Dealership Service history regarding the imfamous LS3 "Transmission Problems"

I guess I could have put this in the Transmission section, but I figure it could go here as well.

After 25k and two years of ownership dealing with the "notchy" shifting, and grinding of almost every gear, I finally couldn't stand it anymore and decided to take it into the dealer last month to see what would happen.

I saw all of the threads of Dealerships saying that "it's normal" and the fixes not amounting to a solution to the problem. I expected the worst, and hoped for the best summed up. Well when I took the car to the dealer, the service writer was friendly and helpful, and I immediately took the car for a test drive with the trans. tech. He Identified the problem as being the "blocker rings" in the transmission being worn, out of tolerance, and needed replacing.

They took my car in for service work, and replaced the blocker rings in the TR6060, and sent me on my way. Immediately I could feel a difference in shifting, as it was much easier to shift through the gears (primarily 2nd and 3rd Gear) while accelerating at different speeds. There was still some "notchy" shifting, and slight grinding, but I gave it some time to go away.


Well, it didnt go away. It came back, almost as strong as it was when I first took ownership of the car. I sent the car back to the dealership on Monday, where a different trans. tech took the car for a test drive, and indentified the problem once again.

As of today, My car is at the dealer, with the tranny taken apart, and no clear answer as to what the issue with my TR6060 is. The service writer informed me that they have to call GM tech support to get further guidance, because they just don't want to "keep replacing parts" and "wasting my time" so they can find the most accurate solution.


What do you guys think about this?? Does anyone have a similiar story, a story of failure, or a story of success?? The Service writer is top notch, and very friendly/helpful, as I have never had an issue getting a rental or any frustrating moments.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:23 AM   #2
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Your car is one of the LS3s that came with the copper blocker rings. I have the carbon fiber rings in mine and it is notchy. It has been that way from day one and 2nd, if you're not careful, could grind on you. I can not understand why GM cut corners on this trans. I had the borg warner 5 speed in my IROC and that thing shifted like butter for 150k miles.

Anyway, there is a solution but your dealer isn't going to pay for it. There is a guy on here who rebuilds the TR6060 the correct way and they shift beautiful after he's done. If you have a few grand laying around, you can be done with the notchy grindy crap for good.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:46 AM   #3
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Your car is one of the LS3s that came with the copper blocker rings. I have the carbon fiber rings in mine and it is notchy. It has been that way from day one and 2nd, if you're not careful, could grind on you. I can not understand why GM cut corners on this trans. I had the borg warner 5 speed in my IROC and that thing shifted like butter for 150k miles.

Anyway, there is a solution but your dealer isn't going to pay for it. There is a guy on here who rebuilds the TR6060 the correct way and they shift beautiful after he's done. If you have a few grand laying around, you can be done with the notchy grindy crap for good.


WOW.

UPDATE : The service writer just called me, and go figure : GM tech support says they have no "claims" of other Transmissions having this problem, so they suggested replaced the synchronizers in the Transmission. This really makes me angry, with the amount of threads i've seen where people have taken their car into the dealer with this same issue. I didn't expect GM to actually admit that this is a problem, it's just dissapointing that they are still pretending that there is no issue.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:17 PM   #4
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In case you're interested in some nice pics and a good long read on the issue.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159933
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:17 PM   #5
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Same thing here, I am actually at the dealership right now. Took the manager for a ride and saise that he can't hear it grinding, time will tell what they want to do about it. Also talking to them about side to side play in my right rear axle shaft. They are saying that there is no limit on it, so I dont have much hope on a good solution for the tranny. Buying parts and fixing a car that is under warrent at the owners expense is full on bull shit and should not be required.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:34 PM   #6
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Same thing here, I am actually at the dealership right now. Took the manager for a ride and saise that he can hear it grinding, time will tell what they want to do about it. Also talking to them about side to side play in my right rear axle shaft. They are saying that there is no limit on it, so I dont have much hope on a good solution for the tranny. Buying parts and fixing a car that is under warrent at the owners expense is full on bull shit and should not be required.
If you can, keep me updated on what they plan to do with your Tranny. My dealership said GM tech support had never heard of anyone having Tranny issues until my car, so if they decide to call GM Tech support in your situation too, maybe we can exchange info, make some noise up there, and show multiple cases of TR6060 issues. I know many forum members have tried everything from Petitions to letters and emails, but it's worth a shot right?
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:52 PM   #7
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They sent me away due to time contraints and I am going back on Tuesday. I will keep you informed.
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:54 PM   #8
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Check out this site for TSBs that you can show your dealership.
http://www.safercar.gov/

TR-6060 can be found in:
2007+ Mustang Shelby GT500
2009+ Dodge Challengers
2009 Pontiac G8
2009+ CTS-V
2010+ Camaro SS
2008-2010 Dodge Vipers
and probably a few others, feel free to add any models that have the TR6060.

I realize that there are a lot of people on the forum that are having issues with TR6060 but the dealerships don't care about the forum members and what they have to say. In my most recent experiences, if it doesn't come out in a TSB or a recall, the technicians don't know what they are looking at. I feel like I have to draw pictures on a chalk board every time that I go in so that they can understand what I am saying. Makes you wonder what certifications the technicians have to obtain to work for GM.

The shop foreman at my dealership was talking to me like I didn't know what I was talking about, while we were driving around. He also stated that he could not hear the grinding going from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 1st, that all he herd was the shifter engaginging. I am dropping my car off on Tuesday for it to be dealt with along with a couple other things. What I don't understand is the common comments and the hesitation by the dealers to confront this issue. When we drive onto the lot we are customers and they should take our complaints as fact, not hearsay until they verify it. If I take the time off work to sit in the waiting room so that my car can be fixed, I am doing it because there is an issue not because I have nothing better to do. I truly feel bad for those that are doing this on an hourly wage. I could not even begin to calculate the amount of money that I would have lost up to this point if I was not on salary.

I believe that I may not have properly expressed my feelings or concerns the last time that I was at the dealer due to me being in Military uniform. This will not happen on Tuesday! I am going in with a fix it, replace it, or give me a new car attitude. I will not be denied on my fourth time to the dealer for the same issue, GM customer service be damned. I will let you know how it goes.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partymn View Post
Check out this site for TSBs that you can show your dealership.
http://www.safercar.gov/

TR-6060 can be found in:
2007+ Mustang Shelby GT500
2009+ Dodge Challengers
2009 Pontiac G8
2009+ CTS-V
2010+ Camaro SS
2008-2010 Dodge Vipers
and probably a few others, feel free to add any models that have the TR6060.

I realize that there are a lot of people on the forum that are having issues with TR6060 but the dealerships don't care about the forum members and what they have to say. In my most recent experiences, if it doesn't come out in a TSB or a recall, the technicians don't know what they are looking at. I feel like I have to draw pictures on a chalk board every time that I go in so that they can understand what I am saying. Makes you wonder what certifications the technicians have to obtain to work for GM.

The shop foreman at my dealership was talking to me like I didn't know what I was talking about, while we were driving around. He also stated that he could not hear the grinding going from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 1st, that all he herd was the shifter engaginging. I am dropping my car off on Tuesday for it to be dealt with along with a couple other things. What I don't understand is the common comments and the hesitation by the dealers to confront this issue. When we drive onto the lot we are customers and they should take our complaints as fact, not hearsay until they verify it. If I take the time off work to sit in the waiting room so that my car can be fixed, I am doing it because there is an issue not because I have nothing better to do. I truly feel bad for those that are doing this on an hourly wage. I could not even begin to calculate the amount of money that I would have lost up to this point if I was not on salary.

I believe that I may not have properly expressed my feelings or concerns the last time that I was at the dealer due to me being in Military uniform. This will not happen on Tuesday! I am going in with a fix it, replace it, or give me a new car attitude. I will not be denied on my fourth time to the dealer for the same issue, GM customer service be damned. I will let you know how it goes.
The TR6060 is also in :

2005+
Corvette C6
Corvette C6 Z06
Corvette ZR1
Corvette Grand Sport
2012 Camaro ZL1


I am the SAME way. I am a service member (5+ years Active Army) and most of the time I have been to the dealer, it's been during work hours when I'm in uniform. I am professional and non confrontational while I am in uniform, especially at places of retail.

The techs at my dealership are "open" for opinion, but obviously they are the subject matter experts and will seldom "believe" exactly what a customer is telling them until they check it out for themselves. Both times my Trans. went in for service work, they did not "butt heads" or fight with me to deny service work. When I told the last tech that the problem wasn't current because the trans. was hot, he even offered to let the car sit until after lunch to test drive it, to ensure that my needs and concerns were being addressed.

I hope that I get my car back today, even though the service writer said it's looking more like Tuesday.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:48 PM   #10
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Well it went very poorly. The dealer is saying that they can not find anything wrong with the tranny. I don’t have the patients for all of this and I refuse to take any more time off work to go back to the dealer, nor will I go to the last dealer on the island and ask for help. I am going to call GM customer service and let the local rep figure this garbage out.
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:03 PM   #11
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Well it went very poorly. The dealer is saying that they can not find anything wrong with the tranny. I don’t have the patients for all of this and I refuse to take any more time off work to go back to the dealer, nor will I go to the last dealer on the island and ask for help. I am going to call GM customer service and let the local rep figure this garbage out.


That absolutely sucks and I'm sorry that you have to go through that.

Apparently I am not going to get my car back this week, because the syncros that they ordered last week are on back order, or "lost", and they are having a hard time tracking the part down to find out the status of where it is to install it. So right now my car is just sitting at the dealership, awaiting a part that probably has to be manufactured, and isn't in stock anywhere close.

The only "good" thing that has come out of this, is the service writer and manager feel so bad, they have added another year to my Bumper to Bumper warranty, making it 4 years instead of 3.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:08 AM   #12
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That is so cool that they extended your factory warranty. Hopefully they get you up and runnig as soon as possible.

I called this morning to GM customer service center and was pushed to the reginal rep. Hopefully he gets back to me soon so that I can get the ball rolling on this, I want this taken care of as soon as possible.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:36 AM   #13
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That is so cool that they extended your factory warranty. Hopefully they get you up and runnig as soon as possible.

I called this morning to GM customer service center and was pushed to the reginal rep. Hopefully he gets back to me soon so that I can get the ball rolling on this, I want this taken care of as soon as possible.
If they try to tell you that they have never heard of this problem, be sure to shoot me a PM, and give me all the info, and I will contact them and let them know you aren't the only one with Trans. problems.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:10 AM   #14
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GM is very aware of the issue. They have a customer service rep in this forum who has heard many of us complain about the TR6060 trans. You can even go on the Tremec forums and hear people with Mustangs and Challengers with the exact same issues as we have noted here.

Take the service manager to a computer, go to this site and search for transmission grind and look at the vast number of posts that the search returns.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:41 AM   #15
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Two of the three times that I have taken it in, they have called and got the same answer "we have never heard of this problem".
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:46 AM   #16
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Two of the three times that I have taken it in, they have called and got the same answer "we have never heard of this problem".
That's what they always say. Clearly this cannot be the truth when 30 seconds of panning this forum shows the complete tale of many having issues.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:58 AM   #17
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As an M6 owner, I believe the skip-shift CAGS is contributing to the problem
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:03 PM   #18
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As an M6 owner, I believe the skip-shift CAGS is contributing to the problem

Do you have some evidence that leads or contributes to that?
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:55 PM   #19
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As far as i can tell the grind going in to second is caused by the clutch not releasing properly. Mine has failed to engage neutral a few times (clutch to the floor)when the car is cold, when this happens second gear wants to grind basically does not want to go in. Now i have caught this and will not force the shifter to second, however i think the problem happens when someone does force it in. So in short i would be looking at the clutch not the trans. Just my two cents.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:58 PM   #20
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I guess I could have put this in the Transmission section, but I figure it could go here as well.

After 25k and two years of ownership dealing with the "notchy" shifting, and grinding of almost every gear, I finally couldn't stand it anymore and decided to take it into the dealer last month to see what would happen.

I saw all of the threads of Dealerships saying that "it's normal" and the fixes not amounting to a solution to the problem. I expected the worst, and hoped for the best summed up. Well when I took the car to the dealer, the service writer was friendly and helpful, and I immediately took the car for a test drive with the trans. tech. He Identified the problem as being the "blocker rings" in the transmission being worn, out of tolerance, and needed replacing.

They took my car in for service work, and replaced the blocker rings in the TR6060, and sent me on my way. Immediately I could feel a difference in shifting, as it was much easier to shift through the gears (primarily 2nd and 3rd Gear) while accelerating at different speeds. There was still some "notchy" shifting, and slight grinding, but I gave it some time to go away.


Well, it didnt go away. It came back, almost as strong as it was when I first took ownership of the car. I sent the car back to the dealership on Monday, where a different trans. tech took the car for a test drive, and indentified the problem once again.

As of today, My car is at the dealer, with the tranny taken apart, and no clear answer as to what the issue with my TR6060 is. The service writer informed me that they have to call GM tech support to get further guidance, because they just don't want to "keep replacing parts" and "wasting my time" so they can find the most accurate solution.


What do you guys think about this?? Does anyone have a similiar story, a story of failure, or a story of success?? The Service writer is top notch, and very friendly/helpful, as I have never had an issue getting a rental or any frustrating moments.
Tell them to actually open and read the service manual. For a gear clash problem you don't just replace the blocking ring. You replace the blocker, synchro, gear... as a set.

Quote from service manual:

If you are servicing this transmission for a shifting concern such as clash, hop out of gear, or block-out in a particular gear, the following hardware must be replaced as a set for the gear in question. Adjoining gears do not need to be serviced unless necessary:
Main gear in question — for example 2nd, 3rd
Synchronizer assembly, slider sleeve assembly
Blocker ring assembly
Shift fork inserts, pads

End quote.


Then when you get it back, if you want to make it a bit smoother, swap the gear lube out for 4 qts of Royal Purple synchromax. There will always be some notchiness, but the RP helps to minimize it (once you have good blockers and synchros in there).
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:59 PM   #21
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I'm terribly sorry to hear about all of you having this issue. I have tried and tried time and time again before this but I would like to try again. If any of you already have a case with our Customer Assistance Center could you please send your case numbers to me. If not please direct message me and I'll look to get them setup for you to try and get this resolved for you. I hope this helps to get this addressed for everyone.

Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #22
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Jeff tries his best to help so thanks go to him.

That said, I think that the idea that GM still believes that they can deny things like this when social media now exists is just plain ignorant. Customers interact directly about the performance/problems with the products they have purchased from GM, or anyone else for that matter. GM's behavior is an embarrassing reminder that upper management still believes that they can deny things like they had in the past and customers will be none the wiser.

As a final note, when I get on my car and shift from 2nd to 3rd, I will experience a gear lockout condition trying to get into 3rd. It does not happen all the time so I've decided not to waste a week of vacation time listening to GM tell me that there is no such issue and that I'm the only one with notchy gears and lockout conditions.

It truly is insulting when you consider all of the above, especially after GM took a nice pile of my money to come out of bankruptcy. You would think that something would have been learned from past failures but clearly that's not the case.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Tell them to actually open and read the service manual. For a gear clash problem you don't just replace the blocking ring. You replace the blocker, synchro, gear... as a set.

Quote from service manual:

If you are servicing this transmission for a shifting concern such as clash, hop out of gear, or block-out in a particular gear, the following hardware must be replaced as a set for the gear in question. Adjoining gears do not need to be serviced unless necessary:
Main gear in question — for example 2nd, 3rd
Synchronizer assembly, slider sleeve assembly
Blocker ring assembly
Shift fork inserts, pads

End quote.


Then when you get it back, if you want to make it a bit smoother, swap the gear lube out for 4 qts of Royal Purple synchromax. There will always be some notchiness, but the RP helps to minimize it (once you have good blockers and synchros in there).
I read this to the service writer while I was on the phone with her, and she said : "I would have to ask the trans. tech why he only replaced the blocker rings, but I can tell you that he did what GM tech support instructed him to do in accordance with what they thought would solve the problem".

I told the service writer that I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it, more so that I just wanted an explanation as to why they didnt replace everything as a set. I then found out that they ordered multiple parts this time, which leads me to believe that they followed the guidelines of the service manual this time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet Customer Svc View Post
I'm terribly sorry to hear about all of you having this issue. I have tried and tried time and time again before this but I would like to try again. If any of you already have a case with our Customer Assistance Center could you please send your case numbers to me. If not please direct message me and I'll look to get them setup for you to try and get this resolved for you. I hope this helps to get this addressed for everyone.

Jeff Morris, Chevrolet Customer Service
I don't currently have a case, I was told today that the syncronizers have to be made at the GM plant in Mexico, and that no one stateside is carrying them on the stock supply. So they offered to extend my warranty, and they are putting my car back together so I will have it back before the weekend. When the parts are available, they will give me another rental and resolve the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHorse13 View Post
Jeff tries his best to help so thanks go to him.

That said, I think that the idea that GM still believes that they can deny things like this when social media now exists is just plain ignorant. Customers interact directly about the performance/problems with the products they have purchased from GM, or anyone else for that matter. GM's behavior is an embarrassing reminder that upper management still believes that they can deny things like they had in the past and customers will be none the wiser.

As a final note, when I get on my car and shift from 2nd to 3rd, I will experience a gear lockout condition trying to get into 3rd. It does not happen all the time so I've decided not to waste a week of vacation time listening to GM tell me that there is no such issue and that I'm the only one with notchy gears and lockout conditions.

It truly is insulting when you consider all of the above, especially after GM took a nice pile of my money to come out of bankruptcy. You would think that something would have been learned from past failures but clearly that's not the case.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:45 PM   #24
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Well I just got off the phone with Kevin at GM customer service. He is in Texas and is supposedly the regional rep for Hawaii, this helps me out how? He tells me that because both of the dealerships are unable to "hear" what I am talking about that he cannot help me, that I need to take my car back to the dealership for the fifth time for this issue.



I asked him how the GM service techs are certified and he explains that the techs are trained and certified by GM. OK, so they are ASE certified mechanics? No, they are GM certified mechanics. So the dealership's service technicians don't go to school to get certified to work on cars and obtain an ASE certification. So they basically walk out of McDonalds and into GM working on $40+ cars.



I also asked him if the dealers in question have a drive train specialist that I can talk to and he informs me that neither one has a drive train specialist, that once they determine what is wrong with my car that they will have to send it off to get fixed.



This of course sent me thru the roof and I got a little irate with him. The conversation was over after that. Bottom line is that I have to take the car back to the dealership or pay to have an independent transmission shop diagnose this issue, in writing and then take it back to the dealer to get verified.

Jeff, I need your help, if you don’t mind. My service number given to me by the GM Customer service guy is 71-106362-6587
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:45 PM   #25
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I read this to the service writer while I was on the phone with her, and she said : "I would have to ask the trans. tech why he only replaced the blocker rings, but I can tell you that he did what GM tech support instructed him to do in accordance with what they thought would solve the problem".

I told the service writer that I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it, more so that I just wanted an explanation as to why they didnt replace everything as a set. I then found out that they ordered multiple parts this time, which leads me to believe that they followed the guidelines of the service manual this time.



The fact that they had to call someone to figure out how to fix it is not a great sign that they know what they are doing.

The same basic trans and service procedures have been around for years. Calling GM Technical Assistance should be for some complex unsolveable issue, not something the service manual tells you exactly how to fix.

I know several trans techs, they could do that repair in their sleep. Step one.... Road Test. Gears grind.... first check if the clutch is working properly. If so.... then replace the gear/blocker/synchro set. Not rocket science, that is straight forward manual transmission repair 101.
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