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Old 04-27-2012, 06:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonParsons View Post
Truth is, everyone here would rather have a 662bhp Camaro with a factory warranty, even if that meant sacrificing some traction. If Chevy doesn't answer back, I don't see the point in the ZL1 at all.
Best post on this site in my limited time being here.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:24 PM   #53
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Trust me............chevy will respond..........lets face it....you drive looking forward, not looking in the rear view mirror.............they have to respond or else appear weak!
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:26 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by RonParsons View Post
I believe in 2 things.

1. Chevy has the better engineers
2. Chevy has the worst management/decision makers
Why do you think they have the better engineers? Save for the ZR1 and the 427 in the ZO6, they haven't done anything to compete with Ford in 10 years. (Would say Duramax but that's Izuzu's engineers)

Terminator?
GT 500?
200 mph GT500?
Raptor?
Eco Boost?
Ever hear of the Ford GT?

Chevy does have the worst decision makers. The company went bankrupt and then they decided to make the Volt.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:32 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by 2ndCamaro79 View Post
I agree here, I don't think the 6th gen Mustang/Camaro will have crazy HP numbers. I think they will focus on handling and have decent (not of this world) V8 power.
The new CAFE standards for fuel economy come out for 2016.........so we have till then to blow our brains out with horsepower games........or until bombs start falling in Iran.........game over........
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:33 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by RonParsons View Post
Why does everyone here act like Ford didn't touch the suspension, gearing, drive shaft, launch control on the 2013? Guys, it's time to stop using the "will the car hook up" excuse. None of these cars hook up easily. And let's be honest...racing from a stand still is the worst abuse you can put any car through. If a ZL1 and GT500 race from a roll, the Ford is going run away from the ZL1. And have you guys even seen the 2013 Shelby? It's effin slammed to the ground. They gave this car the best possible suspension they could. Maybe not as good as Magnetic Ride, but the car is not going to be a bad handling car.

Truth is, everyone here would rather have a 662bhp Camaro with a factory warranty, even if that meant sacrificing some traction. If Chevy doesn't answer back, I don't see the point in the ZL1 at all. They entered a war and the enemy just built a bigger gun. They need to answer back or the ZL1 will always be remembered for being second best. I thought GM/Chevy/Al talked all this hype about leading and beating Ford. Haven't heard from Old Al lately. Wonder why....

+ 1

Well said.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:44 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonParsons View Post
Why does everyone here act like Ford didn't touch the suspension, gearing, drive shaft, launch control on the 2013? Guys, it's time to stop using the "will the car hook up" excuse. None of these cars hook up easily. And let's be honest...racing from a stand still is the worst abuse you can put any car through. If a ZL1 and GT500 race from a roll, the Ford is going run away from the ZL1. And have you guys even seen the 2013 Shelby? It's effin slammed to the ground. They gave this car the best possible suspension they could. Maybe not as good as Magnetic Ride, but the car is not going to be a bad handling car.

Truth is, everyone here would rather have a 662bhp Camaro with a factory warranty, even if that meant sacrificing some traction. If Chevy doesn't answer back, I don't see the point in the ZL1 at all. They entered a war and the enemy just built a bigger gun. They need to answer back or the ZL1 will always be remembered for being second best. I thought GM/Chevy/Al talked all this hype about leading and beating Ford. Haven't heard from Old Al lately. Wonder why....
+1

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Originally Posted by lbls1 View Post
^This sums up my point to the letter! 60K is too much money to risk for being known as second best. Chevrolet is better than that.
+2

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Originally Posted by capnkirk52 View Post
Why do you think they have the better engineers? Save for the ZR1 and the 427 in the ZO6, they haven't done anything to compete with Ford in 10 years. (Would say Duramax but that's Izuzu's engineers)

Terminator? Roush did quite a bit of engineering for themGT 500?
200 mph GT500?
Raptor?
Eco Boost?
Ever hear of the Ford GT? Roush and Saleen did quite a bit of engineering for them

Chevy does have the worst decision makers. The company went bankrupt and then they decided to make the Volt.
I think both the Big 3 all have very talented engineers. In fact, I don't think many people realize it, but the performance of American cars IMO are curb stomping cars over seas dollar for dollar. Where else are you going to find a 580hp and 662hp for under 60k base...?
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:11 PM   #58
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I would hope so considering I am buying a ZL1 next Spring/Summer

With that said I just hope they include new interior options such as Beige but I would be happy with a slight curb weight reduction and or horsepower gain so I feel like the car has progressed some over a year.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:20 PM   #59
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Put the LS9 in the ZL1 and it is ON! Call it ZLS9....that thought makes me shiver.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:33 PM   #60
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Ls9 is really expensive. And most of what makes the mustang have higher hp is a different design for a motor. I love my LS3 but ford has something the was designed to be supercharged and has the tech to adapt. Plus there are things like piston speed and inerta. The live rear axle is great for drag strips and they have some how made a mustang faster than an m3 BMW which is the holy grail to car mags. I hope all the car makers keep up the horsepower/handling race. Ford and Chevy make great muscle cars! Dodge makes a great looking boat anchor.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:51 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonParsons View Post
Why does everyone here act like Ford didn't touch the suspension, gearing, drive shaft, launch control on the 2013? Guys, it's time to stop using the "will the car hook up" excuse. None of these cars hook up easily. And let's be honest...racing from a stand still is the worst abuse you can put any car through. If a ZL1 and GT500 race from a roll, the Ford is going run away from the ZL1. And have you guys even seen the 2013 Shelby? It's effin slammed to the ground. They gave this car the best possible suspension they could. Maybe not as good as Magnetic Ride, but the car is not going to be a bad handling car.

Truth is, everyone here would rather have a 662bhp Camaro with a factory warranty, even if that meant sacrificing some traction. If Chevy doesn't answer back, I don't see the point in the ZL1 at all. They entered a war and the enemy just built a bigger gun. They need to answer back or the ZL1 will always be remembered for being second best. I thought GM/Chevy/Al talked all this hype about leading and beating Ford. Haven't heard from Old Al lately. Wonder why....
Although the GT500 may have more HP than the ZL1 and Vette, Chevy ZR1 still has better 1/4 mile time than GT500! Therefore more HP doesn't really mean better car!! I mean it's not going to take much to tune a ZL1 to have just as much HP and the GT500 with 662HP or whatever it has, may have all the adds that make it an 80K car!! Still more than the ZL1! It's a lighter car, and it's only 1/2 a second faster in the 1/4 mile?? Stick with Chevy! Probably still going to be better bang for your buck!!
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:54 PM   #62
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IMO, The LSA has a lot of potential left on the table in the interest of keeping costs low and mass producing it. There's no reason a GMPP upgrade package should shorten the life of the engine (warranty) and for those of us willing to pay the additional cost for the package, it would be cool for GM to offer something for us. I just hope if they do, they do it soon because I'm itching to do some things that will void my warranty...

Cadillac CTS-V owners have been getting good power and better fuel economy from the LSA with mods for a while and the mods aren't on the ragged edge. They're just involving pulleys, tuning, porting, and the sort of labor intensive TLC that is impractical for mass production.

I don't think GM needs to change the ZL1 recipe from the factory. Many people won't want to drag race it and it's an amazing all around balanced package. Just give us a GMPP kit that matches all of the ECM and PTM magic to the increased power level maintaining warranty for those of us who want a little more keeping that balance that makes it great to drive.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:30 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capnkirk52 View Post
Why do you think they have the better engineers? Save for the ZR1 and the 427 in the ZO6, they haven't done anything to compete with Ford in 10 years. (Would say Duramax but that's Izuzu's engineers)

Terminator?
GT 500?
200 mph GT500?
Raptor?
Eco Boost?
Ever hear of the Ford GT?

Chevy does have the worst decision makers. The company went bankrupt and then they decided to make the Volt.
remember the 2v mustangs?

remember the 4.6 and 5.4 modulars in the trucks?
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Couple months ago we a few of us were at the track playing with one of my buddies 2010 Z06 automatic.Between 4 of us NO ONE was able to get out of the 12's.

I believe torque managnent was killing us that night, when launching the car would take off and fall flat on it's face.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:42 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonParsons View Post
I believe in 2 things.

1. Chevy has the better engineers
2. Chevy has the worst management/decision makers

When you look at Chevy and what their engineers can do, it's amazing. But those engineers have to get permission from the executives/decision makers to implement their creations. You get the sense at Ford, the engineers are giving marching orders like: Win at any cost. We'll take a financial hit on 5,000 Shelby's if it means people perceive Ford as leading.

At Chevy, the marching orders are more like: All right guys, we know you are brilliant, but let's not start from scratch. Let's keep costs down by using the existing parts bin and not make suggestions like Recaro Seats, please, just don't! And let's also make sure we don't piss off the Vette owners, so design a car up to a certain point, but not better than that point.
If Chevrolet and GM were not brilliant then I wouldn't be driving what I have right now. There are many cars and trucks to chose from, but at the end of the day one has to like what he or she has chosen as the main face on wheels. GM may not have always had the premier designs (they were once the industry leader in automotive design), but GM has an array of engines, transmissions and power management technology that arguably is in the forefront of the automotive industry. You can call gm and chevy what you want, but I've always said that I won't take away their technology....they've earned it.

It is because of their engineering ability(ies) that I am less understanding of a gm product getting "shown up" or up staged by a close competitor. I say...that if you're in the game, then you've gotta play.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:48 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by lbls1 View Post
If Chevrolet and GM were not brilliant then I wouldn't be driving what I have right now. There are many cars and trucks to chose from, but at the end of the day one has to like what he or she has chosen as the main face on wheels. GM may not have always had the premier designs (they were once the industry leader in automotive design), but GM has an array of engines, transmissions and power management technology that arguably is in the forefront of the automotive industry. You can call gm and chevy what you want, but I've always said that I won't take away their technology....they've earned it.

It is because of their engineering ability(ies) that I am less understanding of a gm product getting "shown up" or up staged by a close competitor. I say...that if you're in the game, then you've gotta play.

I agree, and I think Team Camaro agrees, we are in the game and we are gonna play! I think we all are just waiting to see what the Shelby has besides high HP numbers.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:51 PM   #66
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^Ya....let shelby bring it! The zl1 can't cop out at this point.....and no bs corvette top dog card either.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:53 PM   #67
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I would hope GM increases the HP for 2013, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen until 2014 and drop in the rumored 6.2 direct injection engine from the upcoming C7 Vette. The million dollar question is what happens when the 2013 GT500 beats the ZL1 'Ring time? I know Ford is gunning for that number to prove it can beat the ZL1 in all performance categories.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:57 PM   #68
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I'm shooting for '14 and/or '15 if its really gonna be badass.

I am a diehard chevy fan, but not for anything...if the match up between the ford and chevy ends up being lopsided without a chevy rebuttal, then I may not buy either one.
Chevy will fight back, if you think about it we have them right where we want them they will be faster in the quarter in '13 but when the corvette gets a boost so can the camaro then in about '14 or '15 we top them and then go into the next generation we win they lose just like it has always been. Chevrolet isn't stupid if you're a real chevy fan you will be loyal and reap the awards in the end. There is a reason Chevrolet is 100 years old.

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