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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 05-10-2009, 02:03 AM   #1
b00sted
 
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disadvantages of the L99?

hey everyone, glad to be on here. first off i love the new camaro, since i was old enough to know what a camaro was i thought they were one of the coolest cars. i plan on buying one as soon as i graduate college next year. right now i drive a honda civic, this is my second car, my first was an auto and i sold it b/c i wanted a standard. however, i would prefer the automatic in the camaro since it will be my main car, and i really don't see any huge performance differences with the automatcis these days.

anyway my concern is this, i would love to have the ls3, but the auto only comes with the L99 as we all know. would i be hurting myself for any future performance modifications if i went with the automatic transmission? i plan on supercharging or turboing it later down the road. i know with my civic, having and automatic basically ruined any turbo dreams i had for the car b/c it wouldnt be able to handle the power. so i'm wondering if there is anything similar like this on the camaro with the auto...

thanks for any replies
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:45 AM   #2
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I have the 2SS Auto, and you may lose a little time on the quarter, but the transmissions in these cars are pretty awesome. You'll like the automatic, just turn off the traction control or put it in competitive mode and use the tap shift and you'll have fun.
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:55 AM   #3
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From what I've heard, nearly all the power loss from the LS3 to the L99 is because of a restrictive exhaust system. An aftermarket should basically turn it into an LS3.

I think.
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:01 AM   #4
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i would upgrade exhuast, intake, and headers anyway .. the ls3 name is nice to have

i'm more worried about performance, i dont want to hit a peak with the automatic that i would have been able to surpass with the manual .. if you know what i mean

is the auto responsive in tap shift? as far as steppin on it and havin it respond immediatelly?
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:23 AM   #5
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I think that people are just biased against automatic transmissions. Think about it, the Camaro with auto is about 60lbs heavier than the manual, 26 hp less and still goes faster to 60 and just a couple of ticks slower in the quarter. I think the set up is very efficient, imagine what the possibilities are when you do even minor mods to the car.
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:27 AM   #6
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The 26hp less is "supposedly" under rated by GM. I wouldnt be too worried about getting the auto. I rode in my buddies LS3 6A Corvette and im pretty sure that's the same tranny, and it shifted HARD when big peddle was pushed. I was VERY impressed. The car was so light and had so much power, you almost needed both hands on the steering wheel when you pounded the gas, cuz it go squirrley quick!

I think if you're already aiming at getting the auto, then go for it. Swap the exhaust and intake like previously stated and you'll be on a very even field. And for anyone that's seriously looking to drag race their camaro isnt gonna consider the 6M, it's far more consistent to race the auto all day long!
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:11 AM   #7
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I'd buy the camaro SS with the L99 and the automatic six speed in a heartbeat..

I don't believe their is a performance penalty with the L99 and the automatic trans..

if anything...the roll on performance is weaker because of the gearing more than anything else..

I haven't driven the new six speed automatick but if you can select the gear and hold it on the highway I'd imagine it would be pretty strong in a roll on at 45 to 60mph..

Usually thats where the automatics get trumped.. but todays new technology is pretty cool..

Plus if someone can reprogram the computer for the automatic trans....it will be even better..

GM's automatic trans are way stronger than you'd expect..Slap a transmission cooler on with a supercharger and I'd imagien if you don't go too nuts the tranny should hold up fine..

Same goes for the manual trans cars.. (Both automatic and manual trans handle an extra 100hp is usually no problem but an extra 200 and or 300 hp and it tends to get to be an reliability issue) but you can either built up well..

Usually street tires can't hook up 600 or 700hp anyway so staying in the 500 or 550 range is smarter from a durability, cost and actual street performance..(on street tires)

I'd say 550 hp should cost about 7 grand installed and ready to go...(s/c) personally I wouldn't do the headers etc..but rather just bolt on a maggie....maybe the alcohol injection system and call it a day.. For the extra 200 bucks you get a 3 year 36K mile drivetrain warranty too..


Fwiw..the automatic tranny is the easier high hp built up...IMO and its faster from a dig..

Enjoy! and good luck

JB
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:58 AM   #8
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The L99 with auto is the same thing as the LS3 but with active fuel management (AFM)
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b00sted View Post
i would upgrade exhuast, intake, and headers anyway .. the ls3 name is nice to have

i'm more worried about performance, i dont want to hit a peak with the automatic that i would have been able to surpass with the manual .. if you know what i mean

is the auto responsive in tap shift? as far as steppin on it and havin it respond immediatelly?
B00sted -

I bought the automatic BECAUSE it will surpass the manual - but let me stress I mean this for my particular application. The 6L80E in the car is being redone to handle extreme torque and horsepower along with lightning fast shift capabilities. [Please note - the 6L80E from the factory is plenty stout for 95% of the applications] Again, this is a unique application with turbos. It comes down to YOUR preference, but for CONSISTENT performance the auto is the way to go. There are many self proclaimed "pros" that always say they can shift a manual faster, but unless it is a Liberty or Jericho or Lenco (if you consider a Lenco a manual) not very likely.

BTW - If you think I am not a manual guy, look at the video in my signature. That engine is sitting in front of a heavily modified TKO-600.

If you would like some more details, feel free to PM me.

Hope this helps a little.
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:29 AM   #10
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LS3 is used in manual version SS models. L99 used in automatic version SS models.
LS3 produces 426hp/408lb-ft tq compared to L99's 400hp/395lb-ft tq
L99 camshaft is different -- having a little less duration and a little less lift, both of which give the engine a smoother idle.
L99 has a cam phaser and, to get the additional piston-to-valve clearance required when cam phasing changes, the pistons are different parts having valve reliefs machined into their tops. The reliefs lower the compression ratio to 10.4:1.
L99 PCV system is different having its oil separators in the valve covers rather than down in the valley like the LS3.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:39 AM   #11
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You got the numbers wrong on both the ls3, and the l99. Ls3 is 426/420, and the l99 is 400/410.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:01 AM   #12
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You got the numbers wrong on both the ls3, and the l99. Ls3 is 426/420, and the l99 is 400/410.

hmm...I got it from the wiki page...numbers may be out dated
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:39 PM   #13
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Yep they are outdated.
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:21 PM   #14
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The Tap shift is not automatic it's like a half second off, but it shifts hard and nice.
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBsC6 View Post
I'd buy the camaro SS with the L99 and the automatic six speed in a heartbeat..

I don't believe their is a performance penalty with the L99 and the automatic trans..

if anything...the roll on performance is weaker because of the gearing more than anything else..

I haven't driven the new six speed automatick but if you can select the gear and hold it on the highway I'd imagine it would be pretty strong in a roll on at 45 to 60mph..

Usually thats where the automatics get trumped.. but todays new technology is pretty cool..

Plus if someone can reprogram the computer for the automatic trans....it will be even better..

GM's automatic trans are way stronger than you'd expect..Slap a transmission cooler on with a supercharger and I'd imagien if you don't go too nuts the tranny should hold up fine..

Same goes for the manual trans cars.. (Both automatic and manual trans handle an extra 100hp is usually no problem but an extra 200 and or 300 hp and it tends to get to be an reliability issue) but you can either built up well..

Usually street tires can't hook up 600 or 700hp anyway so staying in the 500 or 550 range is smarter from a durability, cost and actual street performance..(on street tires)

I'd say 550 hp should cost about 7 grand installed and ready to go...(s/c) personally I wouldn't do the headers etc..but rather just bolt on a maggie....maybe the alcohol injection system and call it a day.. For the extra 200 bucks you get a 3 year 36K mile drivetrain warranty too..


Fwiw..the automatic tranny is the easier high hp built up...IMO and its faster from a dig..

Enjoy! and good luck

JB
L99 does have a transmission cooler already.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljustin293 View Post
LS3 is used in manual version SS models. L99 used in automatic version SS models.
LS3 produces 426hp/408lb-ft tq compared to L99's 400hp/395lb-ft tq
L99 camshaft is different -- having a little less duration and a little less lift, both of which give the engine a smoother idle.
L99 has a cam phaser and, to get the additional piston-to-valve clearance required when cam phasing changes, the pistons are different parts having valve reliefs machined into their tops. The reliefs lower the compression ratio to 10.4:1.
L99 PCV system is different having its oil separators in the valve covers rather than down in the valley like the LS3.
Good info.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nester7929 View Post
From what I've heard, nearly all the power loss from the LS3 to the L99 is because of a restrictive exhaust system. An aftermarket should basically turn it into an LS3.

I think.

I agree 100%

You could say the something about the auto Challenger R/T, the reason the exhaust is so restrictive is because the engineers try to hide the annoying ass sound of drone when MDS/AFM kicks in

I'd say slap on some magnaflows and call it a day

but do note that some aftermarket exhaust does not hide the sound of drone, but amplifys it ... which would drive you crazy

you could always deactivate the MDS/AFM With A Tuner
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nester7929 View Post
From what I've heard, nearly all the power loss from the LS3 to the L99 is because of a restrictive exhaust system. An aftermarket should basically turn it into an LS3.

I think.
My best educated guess on the 26 hp power losses would be :
10% due to lower compression (10.4 vs. 10.7)
30% due to more restrictive exhaust
60% due to less aggressive cam profile
…perhaps some of the programming accounts for some, but I have not heard any concrete info on that.

For what it’s worth
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBsC6 View Post
I'd buy the camaro SS with the L99 and the automatic six speed in a heartbeat..

I don't believe their is a performance penalty with the L99 and the automatic trans..

if anything...the roll on performance is weaker because of the gearing more than anything else..

I haven't driven the new six speed automatick but if you can select the gear and hold it on the highway I'd imagine it would be pretty strong in a roll on at 45 to 60mph..

Usually thats where the automatics get trumped.. but todays new technology is pretty cool..

Plus if someone can reprogram the computer for the automatic trans....it will be even better..

GM's automatic trans are way stronger than you'd expect..Slap a transmission cooler on with a supercharger and I'd imagien if you don't go too nuts the tranny should hold up fine..

Same goes for the manual trans cars.. (Both automatic and manual trans handle an extra 100hp is usually no problem but an extra 200 and or 300 hp and it tends to get to be an reliability issue) but you can either built up well..

Usually street tires can't hook up 600 or 700hp anyway so staying in the 500 or 550 range is smarter from a durability, cost and actual street performance..(on street tires)

I'd say 550 hp should cost about 7 grand installed and ready to go...(s/c) personally I wouldn't do the headers etc..but rather just bolt on a maggie....maybe the alcohol injection system and call it a day.. For the extra 200 bucks you get a 3 year 36K mile drivetrain warranty too..


Fwiw..the automatic tranny is the easier high hp built up...IMO and its faster from a dig..

Enjoy! and good luck

JB
Keep in mind, the GM application of the 6.2 L with a supercharger uses an upgraded transmission. SS gets the 6L80. I believe the CTS-V gets a 6L90. So from that, I would suggest that going that far up in HP with the L99 Auto may have "consequences". There is a reason GM went with the 6L90 with the LSA.
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:32 PM   #20
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the only problem i see with the L99 is the valve train can't handle as much lift,power, or rpms

other than that nothing really, you also get vvt and thats what it think is what gives it a few ticks quicker to 60

just wish they could have put that on the ls3 as well
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:20 PM   #21
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This is truly the exact discussion i needed. I have been pondering this exact question: manual v. auto. Before perusing the forums, i had my heart set on a manual(i drive my charger 90% of the time with Autostick) and the only thing better than that would be an actual manual, right? But with all the talks of performance being relatively the same, if not worse in the Manual, I wonder if I would be happy enough, going faster and using an "autostick" like setup.

Hopefully this discussion can continue with plenty of RL accounts of one engine v. the other.

The one thing i do know is that i certainly don't want an ounce of buyers remorse. If/when i pull the trigger on getting this car!
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