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Dragstrip and Launch Techniques Discussion 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, launch discussions.

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Old 05-10-2009, 06:55 AM   #1
Rock36
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4th Gen 1/4 mile times versus 5th Gen 1/4 mile times

A few people have expressed concern about how fast the 4th Gen Camaro SS/Z28 is compared to the new 5th Gen Camaro SS. Here are my thoughts.

I think there will be some overlap in the range of times generated by the 4th gens and 5th gens. Meaning you will sometimes, on occasion, see a stock 4th gen beat a stock 5th gen.

Ultimately, the 5th Gen is faster stock for stock, no doubt in my mind, but lets not forget that the 4th Gen has less than a 1lb/hp difference in power-to-weight to the 5th gen.

5th Gen SS: 3850lbs/426hp = 9.04 lbs/hp
4th Gen SS: 3306lbs/350hp = 9.46 lbs/hp

Given some other minor issues like the 5th gen Camaro SS has 20 inch wheels , and the 4th Gen Camaro SS has a solid rear axle, it doesn't become much of a surprise that a 4th Gen SS will at least hang with 5th Gen SS or even beat one from time to time.

Note I listed the LS1 as 350hp, because by 2001/2002 countless dynos prove that that a bone stock Z28 LS1 = SS LS1 = WS6 LS1 = C5 LS1....which is rated 350lbs.

What are everyones thoughts?
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:55 AM   #2
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I hope the new camaro blows the doors off a 2002 or older camaro. I don't want to lose to one in a race that would be embarrassing.
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:11 PM   #3
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I hope the new camaro blows the doors off a 2002 or older camaro. I don't want to lose to one in a race that would be embarrassing.

True that
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:51 AM   #4
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While I won't debate the power of the LS1, I thought the Z28's and SS's were in the 3400-3450 range? Regardless, we will soon see what its like to have lightly modded (intake, exhaust) 4th gens running against stock 5th gens. Should be a close race.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:30 AM   #5
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I've owned several 4th gens. Just about all of them were in the 3,400 lb range. Quickest stock one went 12.85 (99 SS M6), slowest one went 13.8 (02 SS convertible M6).

Having driven and drag raced an '10 SS, the cars are noticeably quicker on the top end. Once we figure out how to tune them to get past the mediocre 1st gear, they will do much better. Even when powershifted (no throttle lift) the computer still shuts the throttle body down to 27% after each gear upshift. At least the 4th gens were cable operated throttle bodies, and you could keep them at WOT 100% for an entire pass.

Also, don't rule out the LS3. It LOVES mods. 500 rwhp with heads/cam/headers no problem. Can't do that reliably with an LS1, especially if drivability is a concern.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:13 PM   #6
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I'm pretty concerned that it won't beat the 4th Gens as well. My SS pulls like nobody's business. Honestly, when ordering this 5th Gen, I thought about it over and over...and wondered what I had to benefit by buying the 5th Gen.

You know what my final answer was?

Style and accessories.

Performance wasn't playing a factor. I have all the go fast goodies I need right now in my 02 SS. I mean...it's freakin' quick, right? It's almost stock (nothing done internal) and I pull 12.88 (12.74 in my Z28). It scares me to know that I'll be purchasing a slower car.

I am looking into the headers and exhaust with this one. But, the main factor of weight is what is slowing this one down. 4 or 500lbs heavier...and this is what you get.

I never disagreed w/ those who said it was a heavy car....it's heavy. On top of that, an extra 100hp is pretty impressive. But, I guess this goes to answer everyone's question about how much hp is too much hp. Answer?...all depends on the weight of the car.


So....when I get my SS, I will take it to the track. I will post up #'s for everyone. But, I sure hope it pulls better than a 12.74....my best time to date w/ external mods only.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:22 PM   #7
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I've owned several 4th gens. Just about all of them were in the 3,400 lb range. Quickest stock one went 12.85 (99 SS M6), slowest one went 13.8 (02 SS convertible M6).

Having driven and drag raced an '10 SS, the cars are noticeably quicker on the top end. Once we figure out how to tune them to get past the mediocre 1st gear, they will do much better. Even when powershifted (no throttle lift) the computer still shuts the throttle body down to 27% after each gear upshift. At least the 4th gens were cable operated throttle bodies, and you could keep them at WOT 100% for an entire pass.

Also, don't rule out the LS3. It LOVES mods. 500 rwhp with heads/cam/headers no problem. Can't do that reliably with an LS1, especially if drivability is a concern.


So even if you have the pedal to the floor after 1st gear, it is actually not even close to wide open?
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:52 PM   #8
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I've thought about this a lot as well. I think times will be closer than many will like and/or admit to. The fastest I've read a bone-stock 4th Gen run was a 12.9 if I remember correctly. That was run by Evan Smith if I remember right (maybe there was a 12.8 somewhere too - I just remember for sure). I'm sure a '10 will run a 13-flat; no doubt. I don't think that will be the norm' though; the exception. I think they'll be running pretty close to one-another.

I don't think that's bad either, because I just think the '10 is a better car on all fronts.

JMO.
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:00 PM   #9
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I always thought the 4th gen SS was a bit over 3400 lbs ...

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Old 05-11-2009, 02:53 PM   #10
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My friends 99 TA came in at about 3580 lbs on the scales. 6spd.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:39 PM   #11
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That seems pretty heavy for an 1998-2002 Trans Am. I think the 10' Camaro will do mid to low 13's, and 13 flat to 12.9x with an experienced driver. Heck one of the race car drivers may pull off an even faster time like a 12.7.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:07 PM   #12
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what I dont like is that 13 sec is now the norm for these cars. LT1s were running 13s a decade and a half ago.... and now these newer cars, with more power, (and albeit more weight...), are still only running 13s. and yes, I know it takes a bit to run faster and still maintain safety standards and all that, but come on. 15 seconds used to be the norm years ago. then 14 seconds, and now we are stuck at 13.

however, I know of many modded 4th gens (LS1 and LT1) that will hand the 5th gen its ass on a platter. and I know of others that are lightly modded that should run neck and neck and will be down to a drivers race. and its hard to find an unmolested 4th gen these days. and the ones that arent, the owners probably dont want to thrash them in a comparison test.

should be a fun comparison. but as nineball said, the LS3 really opens up in the top end. the LS1 and LT1 motors both have their weak and strong points. not to mention the lower weight overall.

but like Tag said.... there's more to this car than just power, the style and class of this car is nearly unmatched.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:01 PM   #13
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It is going to be a drivers race for sure.

The better car is the one you like better.

I got a thing for my SS
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:40 AM   #14
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I pulled the 3306lbs off of the internet, so indeed it might be closer 3500lbs, and then my power-to-weight theory is blunted a little.


Yeah I agree that 13 second quartermiles are very common these days. However, there still is a world of difference between a 13.8 and a 13.1 on the track. Hell, even high end Carollas and Maximas are closing in on the high 13s. At least closer than I would like them to be.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:38 AM   #15
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So even if you have the pedal to the floor after 1st gear, it is actually not even close to wide open?
When you shift the car, the throttle blade momentarily closes down to 27% open, then ramps back up to 100%. Torque management. The computer does this to ensure that the transmission has more longevity. Consider torque management as "abuse management". But, it also hurts performance. With a custom tune, this can be reduced. In stock form, powershifting is relatively boring and feels no different than lift-n-shift since the throttle closes automatically.

Also, some of you guys are comparing the best possible LS1 and LT1 stock times to average and worst case Gen 5 times. Here is what we should be noting:

Assuming 100% showroom stock, on stock tires, stock curb weight:

1993-1997 LT1 4th Gen = 13.6 extreme case, 13.8 on the good side, 14.1 typical
1998-2002 LS1 4th Gen = 12.8 extreme case, 13.1 on the good side, 13.4 typical
2010 Camaro SS = 12.8 extreme case, 13.0 on the good side, 13.4 typical

I don't see 12.7s happening with the 100% stock tune or 100% stock 20" tires anytime soon. In negative DA weather, 12.9-13.0 no problem. In positive DA weather mid-13s will be the norm. In 2,000 ft DA weather even the 4th Gen LS1 cars run 13.5-13.7, not 12s.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:47 PM   #16
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Doesn't this bother anyone else that the 2005+ Mustang GT's will be running neck and neck if the Camaro runs 13.0-13.4's? Perhaps it's just me.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:57 PM   #17
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Doesn't this bother anyone else that the 2005+ Mustang GT's will be running neck and neck if the Camaro runs 13.0-13.4's? Perhaps it's just me.
Why does this bother you ?

BTW, I will not be neck and neck I'll be a length or so ahead
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:19 PM   #18
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Why does this bother you ?

BTW, I will not be neck and neck I'll be a length or so ahead
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:20 PM   #19
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It is going to be a drivers race for sure.

The better car is the one you like better.

I got a thing for my SS
lol me 2
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:45 AM   #20
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Stock for stock I'll see you in my rear view mirror . I guess my expectations were just slightly too high. I was hoping that the Camaro would be running 12.7-12.8's with slightly better than average driver (stock).
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:22 PM   #21
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Stock for stock I'll see you in my rear view mirror . I guess my expectations were just slightly too high. I was hoping that the Camaro would be running 12.7-12.8's with slightly better than average driver (stock).
That shouldn't be far off. High end is amazing on this car. I raced a buddies 96 Z28 with full bolt-ons and 1.6 rockers and pulled it pretty good. It was a roll race and I know for a fact that his car will walk a bone stock LS1 so a 5th gen will hand a bone stock LS1 a loss. But it is hard to find an LS1 car that's bone stock these days.

As for a mustang GT being ahead of a 5th gen . What ever you're smoking must be pretty good.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:56 AM   #22
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I'm not sure what the coming of the 5th generation means as far as prices for the 4th gen...but if 4th gen prices go down, then a lot of 4th gens could end up turning into some wicked project cars.
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Old 05-24-2009, 02:40 PM   #23
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My 2001 Z28 stripper hard top's shipping weight was around 3340lbs. according to the sheet that came with all the other paperwork in the folder. According to every other F-body owner that had a well optioned or t-top car, thiers was 3500lds. plus. I never got a 12.9 stock. First month I had it I put a Fast Toys Ram Air kit on it, took the back seats out and the front sway bar off to go to two tracks. Got a 12.97 @ Norwalk, Ohio and the next day ran a 12.98 @ Ubly, Michigan. Eventually with a better clutch, maf ends, msd plug wires, ngk tr 55 plugs some skinnies up front, hooker super comp headers, 2.5" true dual exhaust, a short belt and a lil computer tweaking by a GM friend, it ran a best of 12.44@117 on the stock RSA's out back. Switching to ET Drags that day netted me a best of 12.09@113 missing 4th gear. Shortly thereafter I was rearended and never got the car back to the track.
I think it depends more on driver and conditions at this point. The faster car doesn't always win. I've pulled hard on other cars only to lose because I couldn't make up the ground I lost at the starting line when I spun the tires to much. Even with slicks on I've lost to a higher hp car on radials. I've got video to prove it. I was just sleepin at the tree and he rolled out calmly. I came out the whole like a bat outta hell off the limiter and ran .28 seconds faster et. He would pull me a lil in every gear though and he beat me to the line.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I never worried about the stock times cause I always knew I was gonna make it faster. Hell, according to some purists changing to a k&n filter means its not stock anymore.
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Old 05-24-2009, 02:44 PM   #24
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I just ran an auto 2002 Trans Am yesterday 3 times (same weather, road conditions...). I've got the LS3. The 2002 hangs dead even through the first two gears. In 3rd I put about 1 car on him each time. The results seemed pretty consistent. One thing is that the heavy 20 inch rims make the new one really easy to launch. The sticky tires don't break loose as the RPMs climb in first.
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:19 PM   #25
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hey guys ran a 13.5 at 111mph wed night in my 2010 2ss, i was pissed!!! my 2000 ss runs a consistant 12.6
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