Praise for the L99, and 2011 v 2012...

[1BADLS3]

I just finished up a week long vacation, most of which I spent in Southern California. Since I flew down there, I needed a rental car. My 2012 Rally Yellow 2SS/RS automatic was in space #230-whatever at the Hertz rental lot. It had 2100 miles, and a 2-tone light/dark interior.

Read on for my impressions and general rambling...

Keep in mind I have a 2011 2SS/RS LS3 manual at home, in white.

Just based on visual appearance alone, I really do like the new gauge font. I also enjoyed the lighter interior color, although I'm not a fan of the new vinyl overlay on the dash. Just personal preference.

I reaffirmed my decision NOT to buy a sunroof-car, as my rental Camaro had a sunroof.

A quick note to GM about that: I honestly think it's the cheapest sunroof ever made. It rattles. It's got a clunky button for operation. There's not a "vent" setting, but instead, you have to stop the operation before the sunroof opens, hopefully getting it as far "vented" up as it will go, but not so far that the slide opens the roof. Extremely irritating. It seems to take up a ridiculous amount of headroom, the sliding cover/headliner feels cheap. I'm going to say it feels like it doesn't belong in a Camaro. But trust me, that is my only "dislike" so far about these cars. The roof design just isn't conducive to having a sunroof, as such, it's noisy, doesn't open all the way, and stows itself, tilted, over the roof when in the "open" position.

I can honestly say I love the sound of the L99 as much as I love my LS3, and they are different motors. The L99 was noticeably quieter on startup (my LS3 has a stock exhaust at home)--but aside from that, the sound is different, almost like the L99 has a bit more drone to it, where "startup drone" is a positive thing.

AFM (Active Fuel Management) annoyed me at first. I wasn't even thinking about it, and it was actually my significant other driving the vehicle at the time, and he noted that the A/C pump seemed to kick in really hard, or that maybe the car was "surging". That's when the light went off in my head...nope...this car has AFM.

The annoyance came when I was driving down the 405 through Los Angeles, navigating the sea of some of the US' fastest drivers. The freeway is probably 6-7 lanes wide at that point, and I'm in lane 4 or 5 doing almost 85mph... The engine truly does lose a ton of power, almost like it's shifting to a really REALLY low gear. AFM seemed to come on right about the time I needed to get on the gas to go around someone. So, first the car comes of of AFM-mode, then it grabs 5th. (And btw...going in/out of AFM leaves something to be desired...it's very noticeable).

But after a few hundred miles of driving, I anticipated the AFM algorithm and it became more of a feature than a hindrance. Driving from Long Beach to Palm Springs, I treated it like an extra gear, knowing that while I was bombing along, it would settle into "AFM gear". Keeping it in AFM (almost as much fun as trying to beat 'eco' gauges on hybrids) became a mental game. As a result, the trip resulted in good fuel economy, at 21.4mpg. We literally drove all day, as once we got to Palm Springs, we took the car through Joshua Tree National Park (absolutely beautiful, btw...). 21.4mpg is the same average fuel economy I achieved a year earlier with a Corvette "ZHZ" (Hertz edition Corvette...LS3 auto with an electronic cutout). Not bad for a presumably heavier and blockier car, the Camaro. While 21.4 average may seem low, the trip consists of high desert driving (and associated climbs), headwinds, flatlands, traffic, and plenty of hooliganism...

The automatic behind the L99 feels remarkably similar (the same?) as the automatic behind the Corvette (I'm guessing it's the same electronically controlled 6Lxx-e in the Corvette)...The shift points and smoothness all feel the same, geared for decent economy, but plenty of fun with rev-matching paddle mode. The automatic was handy-dandy for city driving, and the car still feels like a beast. The L99/auto combo still provides that familiar ridiculous grin and adrenaline high as the engine literally lifts off after about 3500rpm. And the sound is still incredible.

I've got a special place for automatics in my car-loving heart. I don't think driving a manual vs automatic is an indication of manliness or driving ability...it's more about individual style. Cruising down the PCH, just taking in the ocean sights and the breeze while NOT doing a whole lot of clutch work and shifting really is quite nice, just enjoying the sound and engineering of the car with minimal input.

If you've ever been to Los Angeles, you know that there are so many freeways and not enough resources to keep them up. This Camaro (not sure if there were suspension changes for 2012) is remarkably settled over all the buckled, cracked, rolling, pot-holed, burnt concrete and asphalt down there. That's been one of the mysteries of the 5th gen...it's so refined in terms of ride that it almost doesn't feel like a Camaro. The only thing rattling was the sunroof, which I already textually assaulted above...

I did hit an unmarked wash (they don't really have sewer/stormwater drains in LA, just washes and canals, so lots of crowned road surface) up near Playa Del Rey. I was going along after accelerating from a stop light, mildly, coming up on an intersection in the dark and you would have thought we drove straight into a hole. The front end crashed down and then went straight back up and the rear followed....twice, as I crossed over the perpendicular street... I was a bit stunned because it was a hard hit, and as I looked in my rearview mirror, the car behind me seemed to hit it just as hard. But, amazingly, the car still steered straight and the tires held their pressure....Camaro on....this is why you always want to think twice about buying a rental car...

We put something like 1200-1300 miles on the car. Did we do the fuse pull? -Absolutely. After the first tank of unknown-octane "rental gas" I filled it with premium and pulled the fuses--but it didn't seem to do anything. My assumption is that someone already did it, or the issue was resolved for 2012. (FYI, we also filled the car with premium when dropping it off....in a way to "Camaro it forward" for the next person that rents it.

I also enjoyed the other subtle updates--central locking now available on the doors, the backup cam in the rearview mirror, HVAC-mode display on the radio screen.

I'm still undecided on the new steering wheel. While the updated wheel seems to provide more "grip-ability", I'm not a fan of its general, ubiquitous shape nor am I a fan of the plastic inlay.

Reactions from a non-Camaro enthusiast (my s/o)...
*The car is huge and hard to see out of...he really enjoyed the backup cam.
*Loves the HUD (why doesn't Audi do this? ...Hmm?)
*Experienced ****-eating grin at wide open throttle....His Audi S4 is the supercharged 6 that supposedly has 400-ish horsepower, also has a 7-speed dual clutch gearbox. However, the auto kickdown in the Camaro and massive torque of the V8 really put a smile on his face.
*The doors are too long (there are tradeoffs with great style)
*The headroom in the sunroof-equipped cars leaves much to be desired.

The trip was a success, and we returned a very dirty, thoroughly driven Camaro back to the Hertz lot (deserts, dust, smog really do a number on the cars down there). Total rental bill: $26, yes, twenty six dollars, since it was done all on rewards points.

The best part of a vacation ending...I still come home to a Camaro.

[L99CAMA2011]

Unless his S4 is modded it's more like 330 hp or so. Honestly my 2012 sunroof doesn't make a peep at all even with my stiffer upgraded suspension and Massachusetts and NY roads . Actually my car doesn't rattle at all. How was the power of the 2012 L99 vs your LS3.

[ss409cid]

Great observations, thanks for sharing....

[Dznts]

nice write up

[happycamper]

Nice, objective write-up.

ditto on the S4... 330hp (co-worker has one)

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

Honestly my 2012 sunroof doesn't make a peep. Actually my car doesn't rattle at all.

Same for me. Possibly the rental was abused a little more than a privately owned car.

Originally Posted by ss409cid

Great observations, thanks for sharing....

Sounds like your vacation was a huge success. Thank you for sharing your observations.

[1BADLS3]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

Unless his S4 is modded it's more like 330 hp or so. Honestly my 2012 sunroof doesn't make a peep at all even with my stiffer upgraded suspension and Massachusetts and NY roads . Actually my car doesn't rattle at all. How was the power of the 2012 L99 vs your LS3.

The S4 is rated for 333hp, I think, but it's under-rated in the same way the LS1's were from GM. It's all speculation of course---the L99 in the Camaro felt like it could pull a lot harder, but I'm guessing the S4 would leave it in the dust from a dig, having AWD and a 7-speed DSG. Two entirely different cars...

LS3 v L99...it's hard to say. I think the L99 felt a bit slower on the bottom end of the RPM range, but felt/sound like it was pulling just as hard on the top end. The difference in transmission really blurs that though...the two cars drive entirely differently so it's hard to compare. Some downshifts in the automatic grabbed too high a gear and made it feel mushy/slow, whereas other downshifts provided absolutely balls-out feel with maximum kickdown (try flooring the L99 at around 70mph...I think the trans grabs 3rd (maybe it's 2nd?) at around 5,000rpm and then nails you in the seat again as it shifts at redline).

And yes, the sunroof could have been perma-futzed by the last renter, but headroom is still an issue. As is the seeming lack of a "vent" option other than guessing with the switch.

I'm not a VW/Audi fan (as much as I used to be), but they've got a great setup. The switch is a round dial with clicks in-between, very tactile. One direction is for vent open/closed. The other is for the slide open/close, and you can stop it anywhere in-between. And when it's "open" (which means open as far as possible to still remain quiet and air buffeting-free), another twist of the switch will hide the glass into the roof entirely. GM did so many awesome things with the Camaro (including the switchblade keyfob, auto up/down windows, indexing windows, HUD, improved switches, etc)...the sunroof is just kind of a letdown for the $900 or whatever it costs as an option...

[SS_Los]

Great read

[AiRDawG]

I can half-press my sunroof button for automatic "vent" opening...

[SleepWarz]

yep, half buttons like the window switch. I LOVE MY SUNROOF!

[SSGUNNER]

Great write up. Nice you enjoyed cali in a camaro. L99 or LS3 their both amazing machines. Again nice write up though.

[E.T.]

Nice review, and glad you enjoyed it. I don't think I could go back to an un-tuned L99, though...so much more enjoyable without AFM.

[Comrando]

Sounds like a great trip

I remember learning to drive an automatic.
Takes a certain finesse which tries my patience.

[The SwiftChancelor]

Originally Posted by 1BADLS3

I just finished up a week long vacation, most of which I spent in Southern California. Since I flew down there, I needed a rental car. My 2012 Rally Yellow 2SS/RS automatic was in space #230-whatever at the Hertz rental lot. It had 2100 miles, and a 2-tone light/dark interior.

Read on for my impressions and general rambling...

Keep in mind I have a 2011 2SS/RS LS3 manual at home, in white.

Just based on visual appearance alone, I really do like the new gauge font. I also enjoyed the lighter interior color, although I'm not a fan of the new vinyl overlay on the dash. Just personal preference.

I reaffirmed my decision NOT to buy a sunroof-car, as my rental Camaro had a sunroof.

A quick note to GM about that: I honestly think it's the cheapest sunroof ever made. It rattles. It's got a clunky button for operation. There's not a "vent" setting, but instead, you have to stop the operation before the sunroof opens, hopefully getting it as far "vented" up as it will go, but not so far that the slide opens the roof. Extremely irritating. It seems to take up a ridiculous amount of headroom, the sliding cover/headliner feels cheap. I'm going to say it feels like it doesn't belong in a Camaro. But trust me, that is my only "dislike" so far about these cars. The roof design just isn't conducive to having a sunroof, as such, it's noisy, doesn't open all the way, and stows itself, tilted, over the roof when in the "open" position.

I can honestly say I love the sound of the L99 as much as I love my LS3, and they are different motors. The L99 was noticeably quieter on startup (my LS3 has a stock exhaust at home)--but aside from that, the sound is different, almost like the L99 has a bit more drone to it, where "startup drone" is a positive thing.

AFM (Active Fuel Management) annoyed me at first. I wasn't even thinking about it, and it was actually my significant other driving the vehicle at the time, and he noted that the A/C pump seemed to kick in really hard, or that maybe the car was "surging". That's when the light went off in my head...nope...this car has AFM.

The annoyance came when I was driving down the 405 through Los Angeles, navigating the sea of some of the US' fastest drivers. The freeway is probably 6-7 lanes wide at that point, and I'm in lane 4 or 5 doing almost 85mph... The engine truly does lose a ton of power, almost like it's shifting to a really REALLY low gear. AFM seemed to come on right about the time I needed to get on the gas to go around someone. So, first the car comes of of AFM-mode, then it grabs 5th. (And btw...going in/out of AFM leaves something to be desired...it's very noticeable).

But after a few hundred miles of driving, I anticipated the AFM algorithm and it became more of a feature than a hindrance. Driving from Long Beach to Palm Springs, I treated it like an extra gear, knowing that while I was bombing along, it would settle into "AFM gear". Keeping it in AFM (almost as much fun as trying to beat 'eco' gauges on hybrids) became a mental game. As a result, the trip resulted in good fuel economy, at 21.4mpg. We literally drove all day, as once we got to Palm Springs, we took the car through Joshua Tree National Park (absolutely beautiful, btw...). 21.4mpg is the same average fuel economy I achieved a year earlier with a Corvette "ZHZ" (Hertz edition Corvette...LS3 auto with an electronic cutout). Not bad for a presumably heavier and blockier car, the Camaro. While 21.4 average may seem low, the trip consists of high desert driving (and associated climbs), headwinds, flatlands, traffic, and plenty of hooliganism...

The automatic behind the L99 feels remarkably similar (the same?) as the automatic behind the Corvette (I'm guessing it's the same electronically controlled 6Lxx-e in the Corvette)...The shift points and smoothness all feel the same, geared for decent economy, but plenty of fun with rev-matching paddle mode. The automatic was handy-dandy for city driving, and the car still feels like a beast. The L99/auto combo still provides that familiar ridiculous grin and adrenaline high as the engine literally lifts off after about 3500rpm. And the sound is still incredible.

I've got a special place for automatics in my car-loving heart. I don't think driving a manual vs automatic is an indication of manliness or driving ability...it's more about individual style. Cruising down the PCH, just taking in the ocean sights and the breeze while NOT doing a whole lot of clutch work and shifting really is quite nice, just enjoying the sound and engineering of the car with minimal input.

If you've ever been to Los Angeles, you know that there are so many freeways and not enough resources to keep them up. This Camaro (not sure if there were suspension changes for 2012) is remarkably settled over all the buckled, cracked, rolling, pot-holed, burnt concrete and asphalt down there. That's been one of the mysteries of the 5th gen...it's so refined in terms of ride that it almost doesn't feel like a Camaro. The only thing rattling was the sunroof, which I already textually assaulted above...

I did hit an unmarked wash (they don't really have sewer/stormwater drains in LA, just washes and canals, so lots of crowned road surface) up near Playa Del Rey. I was going along after accelerating from a stop light, mildly, coming up on an intersection in the dark and you would have thought we drove straight into a hole. The front end crashed down and then went straight back up and the rear followed....twice, as I crossed over the perpendicular street... I was a bit stunned because it was a hard hit, and as I looked in my rearview mirror, the car behind me seemed to hit it just as hard. But, amazingly, the car still steered straight and the tires held their pressure....Camaro on....this is why you always want to think twice about buying a rental car...

We put something like 1200-1300 miles on the car. Did we do the fuse pull? -Absolutely. After the first tank of unknown-octane "rental gas" I filled it with premium and pulled the fuses--but it didn't seem to do anything. My assumption is that someone already did it, or the issue was resolved for 2012. (FYI, we also filled the car with premium when dropping it off....in a way to "Camaro it forward" for the next person that rents it.

I also enjoyed the other subtle updates--central locking now available on the doors, the backup cam in the rearview mirror, HVAC-mode display on the radio screen.

I'm still undecided on the new steering wheel. While the updated wheel seems to provide more "grip-ability", I'm not a fan of its general, ubiquitous shape nor am I a fan of the plastic inlay.

Reactions from a non-Camaro enthusiast (my s/o)...
*The car is huge and hard to see out of...he really enjoyed the backup cam.
*Loves the HUD (why doesn't Audi do this? ...Hmm?)
*Experienced ****-eating grin at wide open throttle....His Audi S4 is the supercharged 6 that supposedly has 400-ish horsepower, also has a 7-speed dual clutch gearbox. However, the auto kickdown in the Camaro and massive torque of the V8 really put a smile on his face.
*The doors are too long (there are tradeoffs with great style)
*The headroom in the sunroof-equipped cars leaves much to be desired.

The trip was a success, and we returned a very dirty, thoroughly driven Camaro back to the Hertz lot (deserts, dust, smog really do a number on the cars down there). Total rental bill: $26, yes, twenty six dollars, since it was done all on rewards points.

The best part of a vacation ending...I still come home to a Camaro.

Just in defense of the sunroof and yes because I have one. Haha. Mine does not rattle or have any vibration/ sound issues. The controls are easy to figure out, a tap to vent and hold it just a second longer and it will fully open on its own. This is a rental so everyone is usually rough on them.

[sasquash1984]

Nice review

[hightower]

LS3 still winning.





Nice review though!

[SSGUNNER]

^^^

[MagnusKrans]

Originally Posted by SSGUNNER

^^^

my thoughts exactly...

[pincoin]

Great review!

[Globemaster]

Originally Posted by The SwiftChancelor

Just in defense of the sunroof and yes because I have one. Haha. Mine does not rattle or have any vibration/ sound issues. The controls are easy to figure out, a tap to vent and hold it just a second longer and it will fully open on its own. This is a rental so everyone is usually rough on them.

This, never had any issues so far.

[IBMer]

The AFM can be "tuned" out which makes the car alot more responsive and the VVT kicks in at about 3000 RPM's. The exhaust is differant than the LS3. It has a huge resinator it's probably a good 3 feet long. I cut mine off after a couple of weeks.
I love the L99 after years of shifting gears I wanted an auto again and this is a great one.
You did a good write up of your trip I can't wait till I get to take my first road trip in mine.

[DarkFox1]

Nice writeup, I have the sunroof but I never use it.

When winter comes I'll probably open the cover to let in more solar heat but otherwise I never use them in the cars that have them. Kinda like the T-tops on my 4th gen. Useful for working on it, but nothing more than a novelty for me.

As such, I can't confirm any noises in it or not from lots of use. I can imagine a rental is abused quite often however.

Does this resonator make a power difference?

I noticed when looking under my car for the first oil change it seemed to have "a lot of mufflers."

Probably did that to drown out the AFM drone.

[buzzy56]

You did a nice evaluation of the car . The description of your vacation sounds like you really had a great time . I really enjoyed reading this.

[sprtplt]

Originally Posted by IBMer

The AFM can be "tuned" out which makes the car alot more responsive and the VVT kicks in at about 3000 RPM's.

Sure it can. As long as you don't mind losing your powertrain warranty.

[bigbob11]

I felt like I was reading car and driver, nice write up