Pedders Supercar Coil overs

[mp51998]

Got a Justice Package installed and trying to get the most out of it. Ran an AutoX event this weekend and definitely noticed a huge difference over last months run. My question is with the Supercar Coil overs I can adjust the rebound and dampening. Do I need to adjust them the same amount? Thats what I have been doing but did not know if I will get finer tuning by adjusting them different amounts as needed. I am also looking for some good reading of rebound and dampening and the affect on the vehicle. I have read 'The Book' put together by Pete and will refresh by reading it again.
I started at 30front/rear and adjusted from there. If I went softer in the front than rear I got understeer which I guess makes sense. I then ran most of the day at 27 front and 25 rear which worked well. I tried to adjust a little more. Went to 25 front and 23 rear and that was too much. It was the last run and I usually go all out. I was all over. Any pointers or directions to good reading is appreciated.

[mp51998]

So nobody that has these coil overs can tell me if its okay to change the dampening and rebound different amounts? Are these just not a popular coil over? I reread 'The Book' last night and it does not go into any detail describing the difference between the two and what affect changing one and not the other will have. I was looking for a little guidance from people who have these. I'll contact Pete to see what he has to say

Mike

[Stitch]

I have the Justice Package, but my schedule and weather hasn't allowed my much time to play with the settings and how they respond.

Sorry.

[garcmol]

I would think if you're doing an Autocross or road course, you would want them set up the same (fronts same, rears same). Now, if it were an oval with either just right or left turns, I could see setting them up differently in the corners.

Did you go with a Pedders spec'd alignment? i.e. aggressive street or track; How are your sways set up? soft/neutral/hard.... all of these are going to play a factor in your under/over steer scenarios.

And I may not be understanding the question regarding bound (dampening) and rebound. Bound is how hard or soft you want the coilover to absorb a bump or transferred weight of the car in a corner. Rebound is going to be how quickly the coilover recovers from bound and goes back to it's normal configuration.

Now I do know that the stiffer they are, when you get into the twisties and changing direction, the weight will not transfer as quickly. Softer up front may be your friend here. Reason being you want that outside front wheel to bite hard.

[Synner]

They can be different based on track condition and suspension setup. They're not popular on here due to price, not performance.

[mp51998]

I had the package installed by a American Muffler in Fredricksberg. They appear to be Pete's go to shop since they are near him. The sways are set in the middle hole (neutral). Alignment was set to the aggressive side. Not most aggressive but I'm not worried about getting the best tire life since I will upgrade tires and rims soon and will get track tires as well.
I figured I'd start out same front and rear as well but that made the ass end slide all over so I softened the rear to try to keep it planted. On this course set up there is one section where I'm hitting 70+ before have to brake hard for a slalom section. Prior to that is a 180 degree turn where if the from and rear are the same then I'm getting understeer pretty bad. Same for after the slalom. There is another 180 and I'll get pretty bad oversteer exiting if the back is not softer.
So I guess that if the dampening and rebound are the same then I will get equal amounts of transition in the coil. So if I want less body roll then maybe harder on the dampening. Harder on the rebound would make it recover faster from whatever body roll there was. Guess I need to play with them some more. Unfortunately this group only meets one a month and we get six runs per day(12 total) I am also going to start a log book. We run three different course set ups over the year so it will be nice to look back at how it was set up on the last run of the course.
I appreciate your input. If anyone else has anything to add please feel free. I think these coil overs are great and want to use them to there max potential.
There is a Boss 302 and a prepped M3 that make this look so easy. They consistently run 2-3 seconds faster than I do. Neither one of them are in my class and both have 5-10 years doing this but they are my competition. In my mind anyway. There is one other Mustang in my class and my wife(Camaro). Mostly there are Miatas and S2000 and a couple of Vettes. There is even a Birkin Super 7 but I'll never touch him unless he is having a bad day.
Just for fun here is my last lap. I believe it was my fastest at 55.5 but I hit at least one cone, maybe two.

http://youtu.be/71v9spvDkoM

[garcmol]

A log book is a great idea! Especially since there is so much adjustability in your setup. There are a few folks with Supercars. TAG UR IT has the Justice package with the new Z rear bar, Bull F-16 has the Justice package and pretty much mirrored the Pedders' Camaro, GTAHVIT has supercars. Bull tracks his car and I believe he's in Texas as well.

Maybe a full soft set up on the front sway bar would allow that weight to transfer in the 180s. What gear are you in? I couldn't make out a shift except when you were starting out. Do you have the TC/Stabilitrak turned off? If just TC is off (one push) the stabilitrak is still going to try and compensate for what the car thinks is a sudden spin or loss of control. It'll start applying brakes and reducing power, etc.

Also, balance plays a part in this. Forum member mlee had his car weighed at each wheel, and the left to right and front to rear was all out of whack. One corner weighed at 900lbs, the opposite at something like 1400lbs. That will definately throw the car out of sorts in a hard turn! Possible understeer one way and oversteer the other.

Just some more things to consider. Crazy, ain't it?

[Rich@BSP]

There are a lot of things that will determine what settings you need. The track, tires, and suspension alignment settings, and many many other things, will determine what changes you make to compression and rebound setting.
NO! you do not have to change them the same front and rear. set them to were you are comfortable. If you are comfortable with the setup you can generally be faster. Remember smooth = fast.

[mp51998]

Thx for the extra tips. I too have the Zbar setup.(said in my AllState voice) There is so much adjustably in this package. My wife's boss races cars on a dirt track and has a scale so I'll see if I can get on them. Do you think I should try to dial out my 'issues' with the coil overs first or make a change with the sway bar and go from there. As you may have noticed this is my first fully adjustable suspension so I have many questions. I look forward to meeting you at the 'Fest. Hopefully by then I'll be dialed in although I have to learn that track set up. Do you know if we will have a course map before then? Be nice to study beforehand.

[garcmol]

I don't know if I'll have a map or not prior to getting there. That would be nice, but once it's all flat and eye level, I get lost in the cones anyway!

I couldn't tell you which to start with first, but I will say again that the log book is an excellent idea.

I think that if you have access to those scales and the time, do that first. You may want to shoot a PM to mlee and he can point you to the thread he started when he weighed his car. He can also let you know how he corrected the issue.

Then, maybe a balanced set up with the current suspension settings you have now on the track and see if the same symptoms exist. But I'll agree with Rich@BSP (Back Street Performance), so many variable come into play when doing this with the goal being able to track the piss out of it ~ then drive to TGI Fridays or work or wherever and still be comfortable on the street.

The Pedders gear is nice because it seems the theme is "Beat the hell out of it on the track and then take your wife to a nice restaurant". I like that.

Talk with your buddy in the M3 as well. See what speed he carries into the corners, when he's on the gas, what his car is doing in the turns/slalom/hard braking. Rich makes another good point. Smooth is fast.

[mp51998]

Also I only get up to second gear. I've tried shifting to third in the long straight but as soon I do I gotta go back to second. Seems better to just run in second and use the transmission to act as a brake.

[600hp-lpe]

you can set the bound and rebound differently.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe

you can set the bound and rebound differently.

Dan,

What are you running?

[mp51998]

I just did a three hour highway run. Before I left I softened everything up. I went softer on the rebound and it definitely made a difference. As stated in previous post I could feel the return to neutral more slowly. Made for a nice ride. I will continue making adjustment and trying different combos. I started my log book with this weekends times and settings. I ended up second behind a G35 coupe that I didn't know was in my class. I was one second slower but he's got years of experience and this was only my second event
I appreciate all the PM's and everyone's input. If you have more to add please do. I'm still trying to learn this

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by mp51998

I just did a three hour highway run. Before I left I softened everything up. I went softer on the rebound and it definitely made a difference. As stated in previous post I could feel the return to neutral more slowly. Made for a nice ride. I will continue making adjustment and trying different combos. I started my log book with this weekends times and settings. I ended up second behind a G35 coupe that I didn't know was in my class. I was one second slower but he's got years of experience and this was only my second event
I appreciate all the PM's and everyone's input. If you have more to add please do. I'm still trying to learn this

I think you are doing great Once you settle in on your setup the rest is seat time.

[600hp-lpe]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Dan,

What are you running?

This is what I ran last season for settings - Autocross.
Don't run this way on the street - It'll shake out the fillings in your teeth.

I spent 4 days at test and tune events (over 30 hours adjusting just shock and tire pressures) these worked best for the track shock settings.

27 for all 4 corners rebound (top setting on all shocks - 3 back from full hard)

16 on the bottom (bound, front)

13 rear bottom (bound, rear) (might have been 15 - posting this from memory).

I run on WIDE A6 Hoosier tires - 18" with a 25.6" height. Not sure if you should deviate the shock settings using a stock Camaro tire size.

I will need to re-do all the adjustments again (shock settings and tire pressures) since the alignment specs will be different due to adding the ZL-1 pedders rear bar this year.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe

This is what I ran last season for settings - Autocross.
Don't run this way on the street - It'll shake out the fillings in your teeth.

I spent 4 days at test and tune events (over 30 hours adjusting just shock and tire pressures) these worked best for the track shock settings.

27 for all 4 corners rebound (top setting on all shocks - 3 back from full hard)

16 on the bottom (bound, front)

13 rear bottom (bound, rear) (might have been 15 - posting this from memory).

I run on WIDE A6 Hoosier tires - 18" with a 25.6" height. Not sure if you should deviate the shock settings using a stock Camaro tire size.

I will need to re-do all the adjustments again (shock settings and tire pressures) since the alignment specs will be different due to adding the ZL-1 Pedders rear bar this year.