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Old 06-05-2017, 04:09 AM   #1
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Ford Ti-VCT 3.7L V6 vs GM LFX 3.6L V6....

How was Ford able to get within 18 HP and 2 ft-lb of TQ with their Ti-VCT 3.7L V6?

The Ti-VCT 3.7L V6 is rated 305 HP/6500 rpm and 280 TQ/4000 rpm. The 3.6L LFX is rated 323 HP/6800 rpm and 278 TQ/4800 rpm.

We have direct injection (compared to just port injection), 1-point higher compression ratio (11.5:1 vs 10.5:1) and a higher maximum redline (7200 rpm vs 6500 rpm).

So, with all of that, it's only worth less than 20hp?
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:47 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gringo View Post
How was Ford able to get within 18 HP and 2 ft-lb of TQ with their Ti-VCT 3.7L V6?

The Ti-VCT 3.7L V6 is rated 305 HP/6500 rpm and 280 TQ/4000 rpm. The 3.6L LFX is rated 323 HP/6800 rpm and 278 TQ/4800 rpm.

We have direct injection (compared to just port injection), 1-point higher compression ratio (11.5:1 vs 10.5:1) and a higher maximum redline (7200 rpm vs 6500 rpm).

So, with all of that, it's only worth less than 20hp?
well for what its worth the v6 will be no more for the mustang in 2018

and there still having problems with the cam phaser's on the v6
and back in the day on the 4.6 modular v8
and on the modular v8s in general
and the triton v8

the fords v6 also has
Sequential multi-port fuel injection
witch can put the crazy accurate fuel to air mixtures down all done by computer.
a lot of turbo modded cars go
Sequential multi-port fuel injection for fuel brake up and better control of fuel to air, could be that way
but im just spit balling ideas of how
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:43 AM   #3
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More aggressive camshafts, better flowing heads, and the ECU is faster and smarter than the LFX/LLT. Bolt-on Mustang V6's have been 12.1-12.3, almost a second faster than the fastest bolt-on Camaro V6. Aftermarket support is a lot better.

Also, since riozlander is talking about cam phasers, never heard of one failure. The LFX is direct injection which means it can run even leaner than the 3.7L Cyclone. The LFX is not a carb.
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:31 PM   #4
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Wait a sec... so the stang's start out with 18 less HP at the crank but with full bolt on are a full second faster than a comparably modded LFX?

I'm sure some of that is due to the fact that the Ford weighs ~300 lbs less but I'm sure that cant be the whole story?

When you say the Mustang aftermarket support is much better - what exactly do you mean? What performance mods are available for that engine that LFX owners are missing out on?

I'm not doubting anything you said, just trying to make sense of it all...
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Wait a sec... so the stang's start out with 18 less HP at the crank but with full bolt on are a full second faster than a comparably modded LFX?

I'm sure some of that is due to the fact that the Ford weighs ~300 lbs less but I'm sure that cant be the whole story?

When you say the Mustang aftermarket support is much better - what exactly do you mean? What performance mods are available for that engine that LFX owners are missing out on?

I'm not doubting anything you said, just trying to make sense of it all...
The engine is underrated from the factory, plus the throttle body can open up to 100% below 2000 RPM, big help getting off the line. The exhaust ports are a lot bigger, so when you add headers there are huge gains. On my wife's car it gained almost 0.5 seconds from that.

Aftermarket tuners are plentiful, plus remote tuning is better since they have widebands stock, you don't have to worry about guessing the AFR. The ECU is adaptive for timing, it can add timing if it doesn't detect knock till it hits the minimum best timing. Plus the knock sensors have an interesting setting, you can have it remove timing from the cylinder that the knock was detected on. On the LFX the timing would be removed from all cylinders. So if knock is detected, instead of 10 HP being loss from knock retard, only 1-2 HP is loss.

You can get the lower and upper intake manifold ported, since they are 2 pieces you can really get all the locations. Once you start putting all the mods that the chassis has, it really helps out. K-members that remove 70 lbs from the front, rear gears that only cost $160, the list goes on. Live axle also helps since you have less drivetrain loss from it. Plus it has a very strong LSD stock.

My wife's Mustang V6 ran 13.2 @ 103 MPH with a 2.010 60'. The mods were just CAI, headers, converter, gears, and tune. Once she gets experience and the 60' gets down to 1.7, it will be a lot faster.

I've tuned both the Cyclone and LFX, it is just easier getting power out of the Cyclone. The LFX with the throttle body limits under 4700 is just killing it.
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:50 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB View Post
The engine is underrated from the factory, plus the throttle body can open up to 100% below 2000 RPM, big help getting off the line. The exhaust ports are a lot bigger, so when you add headers there are huge gains. On my wife's car it gained almost 0.5 seconds from that.

Aftermarket tuners are plentiful, plus remote tuning is better since they have widebands stock, you don't have to worry about guessing the AFR. The ECU is adaptive for timing, it can add timing if it doesn't detect knock till it hits the minimum best timing. Plus the knock sensors have an interesting setting, you can have it remove timing from the cylinder that the knock was detected on. On the LFX the timing would be removed from all cylinders. So if knock is detected, instead of 10 HP being loss from knock retard, only 1-2 HP is loss.

You can get the lower and upper intake manifold ported, since they are 2 pieces you can really get all the locations. Once you start putting all the mods that the chassis has, it really helps out. K-members that remove 70 lbs from the front, rear gears that only cost $160, the list goes on. Live axle also helps since you have less drivetrain loss from it. Plus it has a very strong LSD stock.

My wife's Mustang V6 ran 13.2 @ 103 MPH with a 2.010 60'. The mods were just CAI, headers, converter, gears, and tune. Once she gets experience and the 60' gets down to 1.7, it will be a lot faster.

I've tuned both the Cyclone and LFX, it is just easier getting power out of the Cyclone. The LFX with the throttle body limits under 4700 is just killing it.
Wow, interesting! Very informative. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:55 AM   #7
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Agreed. Very informative.

Ive been trying to get on a dyno for a few pulls and AFR readings but cannot seem to find one in Central Virginia. Havent had the time to drive a few hours (or take a day off work) to make it happen yet.

Was wondering... Has anyone tried Overkills "rental" wideband AFR device?

Does anyone know if a place like Advance / O'Reilly's / Auto Zone rent these?

Would really like to get some numbers back to Will so he can really dial in my tune...
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB View Post
More aggressive camshafts, better flowing heads, and the ECU is faster and smarter than the LFX/LLT. Bolt-on Mustang V6's have been 12.1-12.3, almost a second faster than the fastest bolt-on Camaro V6. Aftermarket support is a lot better.

Also, since riozlander is talking about cam phasers, never heard of one failure. The LFX is direct injection which means it can run even leaner than the 3.7L Cyclone. The LFX is not a carb.
Pretty sure I read about the f150 having cam phasers problems from my understanding its been one for a while now. And I have seen a few mentioned for the stang.

I still don't understand why fords axing the v6 from the mustang its a pretty good motor
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:48 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=MagnumForceGB;9759698]More aggressive camshafts, better flowing heads, and the ECU is faster and smarter than the LFX/LLT. Bolt-on Mustang V6's have been 12.1-12.3,

So, a bolt on v-6 mustang with a tune is as fast or faster than a L-99 v-8 with a cam and headers?
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:51 PM   #10
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One thing the v-6 Mustang doesn't have, or will never have over the v-6 Camaro is the Camaros far superior styling, the Camaro wins that hands down.
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:28 PM   #11
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So, a bolt on v-6 mustang with a tune is as fast or faster than a L-99 v-8 with a cam and headers?


It 60' at 1.6 seconds, better then the forced induction Camaro V6's. Huge advantage when the car can weigh almost 700 lbs lighter.
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