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Old 06-22-2012, 04:30 PM   #126
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I just ran with that new tune, got it to 354 hp at the wheels and just over 300 tq. However my afr was literally all over the place. Fluctuating REALLY weird.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:32 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post
I just ran with that new tune, got it to 354 hp at the wheels and just over 300 tq. However my afr was literally all over the place. Fluctuating REALLY weird.
Let me guess, start off fine, goes lean, levels off then shoots off the scale?
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:45 PM   #128
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This was my first TT run at 3psi's and a bad tune. So don't feel bad Baylor. My torque sucked so bad on this run. But this was the log that got Vince to tweak me to where I'm at now. This when I ran to 15-17 AFR's.


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Old 06-22-2012, 06:35 PM   #129
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**UPDATE**

Ok guys, here's where I'm at right now. After that dyno pull I called Vince and we talked for about 20 mins, the guy is extremely nice and I cannot stress enough how helpful he is. Anyways, he was saying that my 354 hp pull looked a lot better and has no idea why my afr looked like it was going all over the place. By this time the shop needed to get my car off the dybo because they were closing. So when I get off the phone with Vince, and pay for my dyno time, the guy goes "Oh so when we took OUR wide band (which is about a $6,000 wide band) off your car it looked like it was barley making connection, which would explain the erratic afr. The guy that was doing my dyno pull was watching my wide band and said things looked good. Anyways, My car in the end made about 360 hp and 305 tq to the wheels, and Vince said he wanted to make some tweaks to the tune because he can get more power, so I need to load that tune in now. I just won't be able to dyno it. However I would expect about 370 rwhp and 310 rwtq.

Vince did mention that my MAF is at the max reading and he is trying to see if he can figure a way to increase it, but he's not sure. Hopefully the JET MAF is legit and not a pos mod, because it sounds like we might need it.


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Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
We now use a 3.5" MAF housing and it has improved the MAF's ability.
Was this used in my car? Because Vince said this is another way to get around my issue with the MAF. It would just require another tune..
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:43 PM   #130
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Update from me (Baylor, tell me to shove off if I'm intruding your thread too much). We got the HPFP on and it was running way too much pressure (2400 psi) at idle. We ended up just removing the codes and it no longer went into limp mode. Fuel trims are a bit off to the rich side, so it looks like it is pumping more fuel. We called it quits for today and will resume in the morning. Hopefully it won't be 100 degrees again.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:03 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
Update from me (Baylor, tell me to shove off if I'm intruding your thread too much). We got the HPFP on and it was running way too much pressure (2400 psi) at idle. We ended up just removing the codes and it no longer went into limp mode. Fuel trims are a bit off to the rich side, so it looks like it is pumping more fuel. We called it quits for today and will resume in the morning. Hopefully it won't be 100 degrees again.
No worries.

Yeah I was talking to Vince on the phone and he said that he still hasn't figured all that out yet, lol.
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:25 AM   #132
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I have a question as well. I'm not bashing either, promise. I'm looking to start my research on fi as I save up the money and decide on a system. At this point I want either tracy's supercharger or his twin system. The only thing I want to ask is why does the ipf super seem perfectly fine and the rx having a little bit of trouble. Could it be the tuning? Any ideas? I don't know nothing about FI so I'm looking to learn.
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:51 AM   #133
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Hello !

IPF-Tuning spend countless hrs of Software design on the EVOMS Mustang Dyno and on the road with the 3.6 LLT and LFX Supercharger Camaro until the SC-Camaro was driving like a normal factory produced car , just with much more power .

Our working experiance with Audi 4.2 V8 Twin Turbo and Supercharger and Lambo Gallardo 5.2V10 Supercharger ECU applications over the last years helped al LOT to create an outstanding Software for the Camaro LLT , that is using the SAME ECU BOSCH ME9 like the Audi and the Lambo !

The keypoints for the hardware design followed by the software application were :

1) AFM MAF located with much bigger Housing on the INTAKE side of the SC to prevent intercooler humanity , oil spray and signal max. out effects
2) charge air dump recirculated into the intake system after AFM MAF
3) intake must get cold air from fender housing not from engine bay

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Old 06-23-2012, 05:57 AM   #134
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I am not trying to bash on RX or anyone else. I just have some question about the SC system. So the MAF failure is that something seen as just owning a Super Charger? Is the kit still in the R&D phase with owners being part of the R&D? I wonder about the dyno test and if vince had this much of an issue with Camaro21's build. This is not to say RX has any control over others and the dyno process.

I do appriciate others taking the time and improving the system as they go. I am not sure if I could pay 6 grand for a system that may break down before I get home. I really hope these things get worked out. I really want a SC or Turbo system, though with these issues I may give up. Perhaps 6 grand would be better spent on a 1LE than a SC or Turbo system. I really hate saying it. ...

Maybe after a few others get the system those kinks will be worked out. Perhaps by September all the numbers will be in. By this I mean the new numbers on 1/4 miles and/or dynos. I have read about butt dynos and thats fine for $500.00 modifications. But for 6 grand modifications I need something more than a butt dyno.
Everyone has to remember, boost is just a measure of force (POUNDS per square inch). You can apply 8 pounds psi to a marble and make it roll really fast or 8 psi to a bowling ball and see it barely move. What makes the engine have more power is the amount of air that got moved by that PSI. Some things move more air at 8 psi than others.

This is where the MAF sensor problem Baylor and I are having is coming from. They aren't broken, cracked, faulty, we are just maxing them out. The ECU has a preset limit build in that Vince can't alter. Once we go beyond that amount of air flow it can no longer calculate an accurate air/fuel mixture.
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:07 AM   #135
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Hello !

One of the BASIC ECU engine protection functions of the BOSCH ME9 ECU that is used in the Camaro LLT is to run the engine in safe mode when the AFM (MAF) is maxed out for longer then 0.1sec

In the safe mode the ECU is pulling the ignition advance away and mostely closes the trottle body to a low value to protect the engine !

NOBODY should change that basic funcion because of wrong or inapplicable hardware design of the AFM system !

Only way from the engeneering side is to install a propper designed AFM (MAF) housing of 100mm (4") diameter , that the AFM (MAF) Sensor is NEVER maxed out even at lowest altitude and lowest ambient temperatures at full load with max boost in use with with low backpressure exhaust systems !

Hopefully could clear the situation friendly wise with true technical explanations !

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Old 06-23-2012, 07:08 AM   #136
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Well, a larger intake tube would be an easy task, I just want to see if this pump will keep up with the boost!
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:48 AM   #137
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Hello !

One of the BASIC ECU engine protection functions of the BOSCH ME9 ECU that is used in the Camaro LLT is to run the engine in safe mode when the AFM (MAF) is maxed out for longer then 0.1sec

In the safe mode the ECU is pulling the ignition advance away and mostely closes the trottle body to a low value to protect the engine !

NOBODY should change that basic funcion because of wrong or inapplicable hardware design of the AFM system !

Only way from the engeneering side is to install a propper designed AFM (MAF) housing of 100mm (4") diameter , that the AFM (MAF) Sensor is NEVER maxed out even at lowest altitude and lowest ambient temperatures at full load with max boost in use with with low backpressure exhaust systems !

Hopefully could clear the situation friendly wise with true technical explanations !

Greets ASH@IPF-TUNING
No problem and we appreciate the input. We just underestimated the amount of air we would flow at these low pressures (my mistake). Definately going to change out the intake tube, but right now we want to get the fuel flowing. Even with the MAF working right up top, we are still going lean in the middle RPMs and my beautiful torque is getting ruined. Hopefully we can solve that problem today. Looks to me like the pump is definitely flowing more fuel, but waiting on Vince's verdict. He probably won't be in until about 10:30 our time, though.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:06 AM   #138
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No problem and we appreciate the input. We just underestimated the amount of air we would flow at these low pressures (my mistake). Definately going to change out the intake tube, but right now we want to get the fuel flowing. Even with the MAF working right up top, we are still going lean in the middle RPMs and my beautiful torque is getting ruined. Hopefully we can solve that problem today. Looks to me like the pump is definitely flowing more fuel, but waiting on Vince's verdict. He probably won't be in until about 10:30 our time, though.
Hit my cell up when you get things going. I'm waiting on this base tune to get mine installed. This week I am going to slap back on the RX 3.5" intake pipe. Then Vince can tweak the tune enough to get a log off of it. Because it rev's too high at all times for a proper log.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:10 AM   #139
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Hit my cell up when you get things going. I'm waiting on this base tune to get mine installed. This week I am going to slap back on the RX 3.5" intake pipe. Then Vince can tweak the tune enough to get a log off of it. Because it rev's too high at all times for a proper log.
Will do man. May be tomorrow though. Have to leave here at about 2:30 for another engagement. Probably won't be back to the house until late. DON'T LET ME TO FORGET!
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:54 AM   #140
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I kinda like seeing the issues and the solutions... as long as there are solutions. Its way better than things being hidden from potential future owners.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:27 AM   #141
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There have been 2 failures of MAF's since we did released our first FI system 1 1/2 years ago, and we have seen many more failures on bone stock cars. This is a known issue as if you call a GM dealer to buy one you will see they are out of stock most anywhere in the country due to the high incidents of failure. Baylor had to have one overnighted from KY, and we still have them on backorder as they cant meet demand.
Yup, there is a shortage out there, I called around while I was in Florida and there weren't any dealerships within a couple hundred miles that had them.

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The 2 that have MAF failures are running in excess of 8# of boost vs the 5-6$ of the standard system and that is pushing the limits of this MAF.
Vince tuned my cams and it looks like I'm at around 9.5 psi of boost now, rather than 8 from the OD pulley.

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The other question from lscamaro,the other system is running far less boost....similat to our standard boost system and we have had zero failures with the MAF's on them.
Exactly what I was going to say.

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And I think I only see one of theres running on this site with not ANY independant dyno #'s like your seeing with all the RX systems (rain has yet toshowany #'s and fre whatever only will show the very questionable dyno graph from their shop that looks nothing like any other dyno graph of a LLT camaro we have ever seen.
What numbers is the IPF system putting out?
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:32 AM   #142
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I'm 1 of the 2 that MAF blew. And this was while running 11-13psi's when Tracy and myself took her out for the first drive. I even posted the video of us test driving and showing 11-13psi's on the runs. After replacing the MAF that night I drove 800 miles home with no issues. I lowered the boost to 3psi's for the first month to get the tune right. Now running 6psi's as a norm and running into the issues sometimes not all the times. And I don't mind tweaking and playing with my car. I want all the power I can get and I know this means issues will come up. A few weeks ago I was able to keep up with a GT-R and a ZL1 racing each other. This is why I choose RX as I can use every bolt on I have to maximize my HP. I don't see no one other than STS (waiting on HPS and RPD) that has this kind of potential as of yet. GOTTA PAY TO PLAY, and I'm all for it!! The RX kit isn't for everyone just as the IPF kit isn't also.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:33 PM   #143
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Thank you for the response tracy! That wasn't a bashing comment by any means. It was just a question I had before I knew baylor was pulling 9 psi on the supercharger! That's a huge difference! I did notice the dyno graph of frequents (I think thats his name) car. Seemed to me like there was a difference I just couldn't put my finger on but now that you mention it, it was the smoothness of the graph. Every dyno I've seen is choppy. Anyway, I hope you get everything dialed in perfectly because its going to be a monster once its done! i want one so bad but the twins are very enticing as well!
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:42 PM   #144
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Of you look at the dyno sheets for the LLT in the bolt on section (Sticky thread). They do show alot of choppy waves across the runs. A few seem real smooth ur 99% are not smooth with and without FI.


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Old 06-23-2012, 02:41 PM   #145
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I believe the graph Vince posted of camaro-21's run was smooth...

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Old 06-23-2012, 03:01 PM   #146
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Wait what?Baylor your at 9.5 # of boost now?With the od pulley and Vinces last tune?That is awesome I cant wait to get my od pulley and get it on.Thank you Baylor for testing out the od pulley and getting the tune tweek for us RX SC folks.As soon as i get my od pulley on I will be back on the dyno,hope to start with your new tune.
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:25 PM   #147
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Wait what?Baylor your at 9.5 # of boost now?With the od pulley and Vinces last tune?That is awesome I cant wait to get my od pulley and get it on.Thank you Baylor for testing out the od pulley and getting the tune tweek for us RX SC folks.As soon as i get my od pulley on I will be back on the dyno,hope to start with your new tune.
Actually I'm seeing just over 10 psi of boost with his latest tune. He said he messed with the cams to get the more boost.

Although tbh I figured we'd see more than ~370 rwhp. Not that I care because I don't want a ton of power since this is my daily. Leave it to those twin turbo freaks for that lol
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:08 AM   #148
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How is he threatening you at all? I dont see it?

Tracys taken a lot from people because there have been little issues with his systems but what everyone fails to comprehend is how much the situations differ. Ipf runs very little boost on their kits and the kits Tracy has made that have the same amount of.boost as ipf are running perfectly. It's the kits that push the limits that start to have problems but as you start to push more and more power, problems will arise. its common sense.

Also, I understand you don't condone going fast in public but he also never stated how the race went down. It could have been a private area, we don't know. Plus to be honest, thays probably gotten the most enthuastic of all the comments. Saying you might be able to hang with zl1s and gtrs is amazing to me. I understand it might not happen all the time but the sheer fact its possible with "our little six" boggles my mind. So yea, numbers are important but to me, i love hearing comparisons in relation to other cars
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:14 AM   #149
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Great answer until I got to the end. I dont know what is going on between IPF and RX but it needs to go away. I dont work for any of your competitors. If you have an issue with my question, please feel free to contact me. Also you dont have to worry about gloves coming off. I think you calling others dynos questionable good enough. I am so glad you feel ok with threatening prospective clients.
I agree with Gretchen below. this is Baylor's thread and lets leave his thread for posting about his progress with his build. I've said my peace about this and that's that. I'm excited that there is so much to follow in the FI section now.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:56 AM   #150
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well said.
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