1500 miles!! You've got to be ****in kidding me!

[bandit38]

Originally Posted by Bobaloo

Bandit38: On a CD "Smokey And The Bandit" Bert does a side talk on how the movie made ballistic Tans-Am sales for Pontiac and how he got a letter from the GM CEO telling him how he was going to receive a free Trans-Am.............Bert complained that he never got the car.
Had a friend with one that had a 455 SD (Super Duty) that would smoke the rear tires. I tried to order a '73 Pontiac Grand-Am with the 455 SD but the factory would only install the regular 455 ci. That went pretty good with the first new radial tires.

That's a cool story...I'd complain too...lol...(although I bet he could have bought 200 of them)

Oh yeah those 455's (SD or not) were something else....I remember my Dad's 73 Grand Prix with the 455.....some kinda nice car !

[Angrybird 12]

When you read a service manual, and it says to torque the head bolts to 40 ftlbs do you want an engineer to explain why, or do you accept it and do what the manual says?

[rmyers]

Originally Posted by hognutz

so the same experst that put a 500 mile break in on a 2008 Z06. then chaged it the next year with no mechanical change to 1500 miles. same engine, diff, tranny to my knowledge. The poor bastered that broke in his 2008 for 500 miles is screwed if this is really that important. ha ha. All the guy with the 2008 car did was listen to the experts and read his manual. So which experts were more expert?

I am just messing with you though in that last paragraph ha ha.

I just like to learn if there is sound mechanical reason for 1500 miles I would like to understand it I love listening to experts but I prefer to actually understand what the expert is talking about help me deal with my lack of inteligence better.

Is it plausible that sometime in 2008 (prior to the release of the 2009), a decision was made to change the break-in period based on repairs that were occurring over a period of time on the Z06. So the engineers made a decision that perhaps some of those failures could be avoided if the break in period was extended. So the car didn't have to go through any mechanical design changes. Knowledge was gained as a result of having them on the road. Why redesign a components, to insure it can withstand a 500 mile break-in, all we need to do is expand the the break-in period.

When its all said and done, is it too much to ask...we are dealing with street legal race cars, not a Honda Civic.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

When you read a service manual, and it says to torque the head bolts to 40 ftlbs do you want an engineer to explain why, or do you accept it and do what the manual says?

So if you had done an overhall and put 40lbs of torque on the head bolt and then the next time you did the same overhaul the new rev of the manual said 120lbs of torque you would just do it instead of asking why the tripled the torque?

if that is true then we think differnt. I may still triple the torque if there is a valid reason but would have to ask someone why before I did.

to you that makes me a know it all to me it just makes me want to under stand the issue so I know if is a problem for other cars a may have to deal with in the future.

[rmyers]

And I will just add this....I drove my car for 2000 miles before having it dynod. There were times, I am ashamed to admit that I did hit the rev limiter, once or twice. Never tried to launch it, and never took it over 80 mph. When I did get on it, it was for very short periods and never pressing it pass second gear.

My car's base dyno was 518hp and 493 lbs torque. I have also heard it to be common knowledge that the LS engines gain power with miles. Bottom line is I don't regret breaking it in. Its only driving time and gasoline being spent in what some people are saying is the best muscle car EVER built. Really do we have anything to complain about?

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by rmyers

...Really do we have anything to complain about?

....I would say no without any hesitation.

[hairtrigger]

What is break-in?
It is moving parts that touch each other need to wear in to match shapes and sizes of each other.
A properly built race engine with roller cam and rockers needs only the rings to seat. This occurs very quickly with moly rings.
What needs breaking in for 27 hours in a production LSA engine?
The blower lobes!

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by hairtrigger

What is break-in?
It is moving parts that touch each other need to wear in to match shapes and sizes of each other.
A properly built race engine with roller cam and rockers needs only the rings to seat. This occurs very quickly with moly rings.
What needs breaking in for 27 hours in a production LSA engine?
The blower lobes!

Could be right. I will read on up that. the LS3 has no blower lobes though and it got raised to 1500 miles as well.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Once people stop asking why, we no longer live in a democracy. Examine your history for abuses of the unchecked attitude of " trust us, we know what we are doing."

Well - you drive a Mustang - so perhaps you should go ask a Ford engineer to explain stuff.

To a select few:

Here's the reason I'm asking you to follow the break-in period.

(....and I shall quote both my mother and my father)

"BECAUSE I SAID SO."


I'd love to know the codes that the President has in the oval office.......

I'd love to know what the recipe for Coca-cola is - or the recipe for Kentucky Fried Chicken........

I'd love to know what causes people to watch the Kardashians.......(.....don't get me going on that one....)

I'd love to know why a certain young lady decided that I no longer "fit her picture" years ago ........

I'd love to know the secrets of life............

I'd love to know who REALLY "shot J.R." ( J.R. Ewing...for you young'uns...)


....shall I start haranguing the President and the CEOs of coca-cola and KFC -- and start to stalk the by-now middle aged woman?
Shall I curse the Good Lord because he won't 'enlighten me?'

Enough!

Either listen to us or DON'T listen to us.

If you choose not to listen to us -- that's your choice....just don't start complaining in the event that something does go wrong.

[GroundhogSS]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

How's that for an answer?

I'll buy it.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by rmyers

Is it plausible that sometime in 2008 (prior to the release of the 2009), a decision was made to change the break-in period based on repairs that were occurring over a period of time on the Z06. So the engineers made a decision that perhaps some of those failures could be avoided if the break in period was extended. So the car didn't have to go through any mechanical design changes. Knowledge was gained as a result of having them on the road. Why redesign a components, to insure it can withstand a 500 mile break-in, all we need to do is expand the the break-in period.

When its all said and done, is it too much to ask...we are dealing with street legal race cars, not a Honda Civic.

This to me sounds like it is the most plausible reason/answer that could lead to a satisfying answer to Hognutz scientific and inquisitive mind. I would think that if Fbod had a scientific reason about the break-in period he would of supplied it merrily. It's quite possible also that maybe that information is not shared with him because it might have some sort of proprietary status that the company does not want to divulge - trade secrets and such.

What seems to be obvious is the repeated attempts by Fbodfather to explain ad nauseum about following the break-in procedures without divulging specifics would lead me to believe that information is protected under some sort of copyrite infringement law. I'm sure Hognutz will at some point make his own assessment and then feel vindicated by his research. And until said time I would suggest.....








EVERBODY STOP TALKING TO HIM AND LEAVE HIM TO HIS OWN RESEARCH



carry on....

[mlee]

[Optimus]

Holy Crap! Time to delete this "now" worthless thread. I don't care if the engineers in ther room are laughing at a 1500 mile break in period. When I get my ZL1, I will follow the recommendations. Per the note above -Maybe the BI time has changed since 2008 because engineers have learnd over time that with these high performance parts, etc, it should have been 1500 miles all along. Don't know and don't care...

[chevy 3]

Hognutz. If you new halph of what you say then you know that NASCAR and most race motors are broke in on a dyno. That can be 500 + miles. Why are you so pissed off about this ? Break yours in your way and if it blows up or(?) then you can start a thred on why GM won't fix your car. Scott would never steer any one wrong.

[chevy 3]

I just read back a few posts and dam. Scotty you sir rock and I'm glad your on are side(Chevy).

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by 6speedss

I saw this exact car at my dealership body shop over a week ago :(. I heard that some salesman test drove this guys car before he had a chance to pick it up! I can add some more pics of this poor zl1 later.....

Holy sheep s**t. I'd whip that salesmans a$$ like a rented mule!.

[2012ZL1]

My guess is that a 1500 mile period was decided upon from analysis of internal drivetrain parts and wear after different loads and length of cycles were applied. Then, a time period was chosen based on a safe average of the test results of those components to best qualify a given target warranty period.
Then, it was put in a book and made into a suggested warranty period for people to follow to best provide a satisfacory drivetrain life and enjoyment of their new Chevrolet automobile.

but that's just a guess.

oh ya I almost forgot...then, they all sat in a board room and giggled. Then they went for lunch.

[sykb47l]

Next year when the break in triples to 4500 miles you guys still wont ask why? How about use race gas in your tank for the first 10 fill ups. Or change the oil every 500 miles for the first year. Why? "Cause we said so".....Its a $60k car we better do it.

Its a question about a product. I don't think its unreasonable to ask why. The answer is clearly being danced around. Its funny how when people on this board dont agree with an opinion the "this post thread should be closed" pops up. He's not being rude and is simply seeking information. If there was an issue or a part that needed to be looked after I bet everyone would want to know.

And if Coca-Cola told everyone to only drink there product at room temperture for the first 3 cans out a 12 pack...."cause we said so!"

[closs2sx]

my Dad and I are driving ours back from FL. He is going to NY and I am coming all the way back to central NH. With the side trips we have planned we will both have 1500 on by the time we get to his house. Cant wait to feel the full pull of these cars

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by chevy 3

Hognutz. If you new halph of what you say then you know that NASCAR and most race motors are broke in on a dyno. That can be 500 + miles. Why are you so pissed off about this ? Break yours in your way and if it blows up or(?) then you can start a thred on why GM won't fix your car. Scott would never steer any one wrong.

you right I am not halph as smart as I say I am. You also don't know what the break in procedure for a nascar motor as niether do I. I have read 30min then tear down. then two hours then tear down. I do not know if that is accurate as I dont' work there.

I am not mad I just want to know if it was a component that was the issue to drive this. I own an 07 Z06. It was not broke in for 1500 miles. All of the independant service data for all these components don't have 1500 mile break in procedures.

I am not saying even that the 1500 miles might not be valid I was just trying to find out what drove the change.

So to clarify I am not saying antying is wrong, I am not pissed, I just wanted to understand the logic behind tripling the break in period.

I am not even saying I am smart you guys have decied I am not and so I must not be.

In the mechanical world when you triple something it normal opens dialog. I triple the hardenss requirement on a heat treat, triple the torque of a fastenter, etc. Nothing makes that wrong but someone may ask a question of why.

a bunch of people telling me that is is absolute required but not knowing why it is required on an internet forum is not going to make my curisity about it go away.

I will just continue to research this on my own to see if it was failure based as everyone is assuming on here even that that has not been said. It is pretty global to the brand though so I think it is just general policy shift.

There is no documentaion from eaton on a 1500 mile lobe break in that I can find.

my last post in this thread I will continue to be stupid and you guys can continue to be smarter than I am even though you don't know why.

[HDRDTD]

Hognutz, I doubt if you will ever get an answer out of GM for a whole varity of reasons. There may not be a simple answer, and/or nobody will want to put anything it writing, or they are just not allowed to.

With that said, it may just be a blanket decision across the board to change the break-in period to 1500 miles on all all GM products for simplicity and to err on the side of caution.

Also keep in mind that something like the ZL1 is a very complex system, so it may or may not have anything to do specifically with the engine.

It could be another part of the drive train, the suspension or all of the above working together.

It's like the QC hold. Everyone is curious as to what the real issue was simply because we're curious, but GM will probably never give us an answer.

I don't think we will ever really find out why the 1500mile break-in is reccomended. At this point I say we just trust the engineering team .

Courisity is good.

[Jose]

Back in the 80's the engine needed the break in period due to the block material, it was steel and the rest of the parts were not, so there is a physical answer on break in period for the 80's engines. Other than that, I don't have a clue!!!

[Jose]

Got this on Internet:

Warning:
This is a very controversial topic !!

I wrote "Break-In Secrets" after successfully applying this method
to approximately 300 new engines, all without any problems whatsoever.

Links to this article now appear on hundreds of motorsports discussion forums from all over the world. The reason is that over time, large numbers of people have done a direct comparison between my method and the owner's manual method, and the news of their success is spreading rapidly.

The results are always the same... a dramatic increase in power at all RPMs. In addition, many professional mechanics have disassembled engines that have used this method, to find that the condition of the engine is much better than when the owner's manual break-in method has been used.

The thing that makes this page so controversial is that there have been many other break-in articles
written in the past which will contradict what has been written here.

Several factors make the older information on break-in obsolete.

The biggest factor is that engine manufacturers now use a much finer honing pattern in the cylinders than they once did. This in turn changes the break-in requirements, because as you're about to learn, the window of opportunity for achieving an exceptional ring seal is much smaller with
newer engines than it was with the older "rough honed" engines.

In addition, there is a lot less heat build up in the cylinders from ring friction
due to the finer honing pattern used in modern engines.

The other factors that have changed are the vastly improved metal casting and machining
technologies which are now used. This means that the "wearing in" of the new parts
involves significantly less friction and actual wear than it did in the distant past.

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by Jose

Got this on Internet:

Warning:
This is a very controversial topic !!

I wrote "Break-In Secrets" after successfully applying this method
to approximately 300 new engines, all without any problems whatsoever.

Links to this article now appear on hundreds of motorsports discussion forums from all over the world. The reason is that over time, large numbers of people have done a direct comparison between my method and the owner's manual method, and the news of their success is spreading rapidly.

The results are always the same... a dramatic increase in power at all RPMs. In addition, many professional mechanics have disassembled engines that have used this method, to find that the condition of the engine is much better than when the owner's manual break-in method has been used.

The thing that makes this page so controversial is that there have been many other break-in articles
written in the past which will contradict what has been written here.

Several factors make the older information on break-in obsolete.

The biggest factor is that engine manufacturers now use a much finer honing pattern in the cylinders than they once did. This in turn changes the break-in requirements, because as you're about to learn, the window of opportunity for achieving an exceptional ring seal is much smaller with
newer engines than it was with the older "rough honed" engines.

In addition, there is a lot less heat build up in the cylinders from ring friction
due to the finer honing pattern used in modern engines.

The other factors that have changed are the vastly improved metal casting and machining
technologies which are now used. This means that the "wearing in" of the new parts
involves significantly less friction and actual wear than it did in the distant past.

And that may be true for those people that know what they are doing. Keep in mind that GM needs to err on the side of caution because they have no idea who will be driving the car, a well educated driver, a seasoned professional, or just some run of the mill everyday idiot.

Just $.02 worth of a WAG.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Well - you drive a Mustang - so perhaps you should go ask a Ford engineer to explain stuff.

To a select few:

Here's the reason I'm asking you to follow the break-in period.

(....and I shall quote both my mother and my father)

"BECAUSE I SAID SO."


I'd love to know the codes that the President has in the oval office.......

I'd love to know what the recipe for Coca-cola is - or the recipe for Kentucky Fried Chicken........

I'd love to know what causes people to watch the Kardashians.......(.....don't get me going on that one....)

I'd love to know why a certain young lady decided that I no longer "fit her picture" years ago ........

I'd love to know the secrets of life............

I'd love to know who REALLY "shot J.R." ( J.R. Ewing...for you young'uns...)

....shall I start haranguing the President and the CEOs of coca-cola and KFC -- and start to stalk the by-now middle aged woman?
Shall I curse the Good Lord because he won't 'enlighten me?'
Enough!

Either listen to us or DON'T listen to us.

If you choose not to listen to us -- that's your choice....just don't start complaining in the event that something does go wrong.

Maybe TNT will come up with a good answer this summer when they bring back the (new) series....