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Old 05-18-2009, 07:19 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z28camaro2471 View Post
So with baselines of 378 at the wheels and 426 at the crank, assuming the same % drivetrain loss, that works out to be 597hp. Work on that tune to get it up to an even 600 hp!!!

Yes I know dynos are just tools for tuning and internet racing but pretty cool nonetheless.
That would be 12% .. It's not possible. Esp when a C5 or C6 is 18% loss .The 2 piece drive shaft will eat up at least another 2% .. the bottom line is the gains are about right but the actual rwhp is way high but typical read from a dynojet dyno .. [ AKA inflatajet ] ..They are only a tuning tool .

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Originally Posted by Camaro_Psycho View Post
Wow! Now those are some numbers! That'll beat a GT500, and you'll save a couple thousand. But how do you guys think this will affect the MPG?
You should see a slight gain if the tune is on par ..

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Originally Posted by Camarofan123 View Post
I have one question, why is the engine moving around so much? Are the motor mounts loose or something? That doesn't look normal to me.
Normal with that amount of tq .. No worries .

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Originally Posted by Ninjak View Post
I am more interested in how much the STOCK block can take. Sure, you can get well over 500 rwhp out of a mustang gt as well, but it sure hell is ill advise unless you build the bottom end up some..rods ect....I am sure that the maro engine, that was not built for F/I will have the same limitations....and we have not even gotten to the drivetrain yet.

All in all though good numbers. Expensive as all out, but good numbers. Heh you could buy a GT500 2010 for what it will cost to get you to those numbers.

Hmm on second thought...what I have seen SS's going for here in S. Fla after the mark ups..a GT500 is cheaper !
I have made 550 whp on a stock motor on our mustang dyno [ gives actual or closer to actual power basicly the math works based on engine dyno vs mustang dyno ] We have seen 600+ with a little Meth injection and a conservative tune .

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Originally Posted by AH17708 View Post
forgive me for the dumb question...but those who dont ask dont learn...so whats the difference between rwhp and hp...how is it that you guys are able to calculate these numbers??
about 20% on a 6spd and 24% on an auto [ 6l80e has a higher power requirement to turn then a 4l60e ]

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Originally Posted by classicam View Post
The one big question, IS IT A FORGED MOTOR? I don't see the power going up or lasting with cast pistons.
at that level it will last at least 100K or more if the proper maintance is done .

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Originally Posted by blaksabb View Post
So which is it? I have seen on this forum in another thread (forgot which one) the stock RWHP of the LS3 listed as ~ 348. Here they say 376HP or so. That's a big difference. The other thread said 150 + HP increase resulted in about 480 RWHP @ 6 psi. Who am I to believe?
see above post .

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Originally Posted by vladkgb View Post
A good pro dyno Tune should be around $300-400

still doesnt even come close to the 2010 rustang gt500 price (32k base SS vs 46k base Gt500). And it makes 636HP (530rwhp+20% Drivetrain loss) vs gt500's 540hp, lol. Rustang = fail

EDIT: go with a procharger, since its pretty simple to bolt on u can save moneys on labor
EDIT #2: and u can bolt it off when its time for warranty work
while we make great power with a procharger the noise level at idle sucks IMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N View Post


20% driveline losses

driveline losses are closer to ~12% for manuals, ~15% for autos lil buddy.
see above post thats a little low for even 4th gen cars

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Originally Posted by 383ss View Post
I can't believe nobody has asked this... we'll on this site I can.

What are the wheels/tires on there? 18's or 19's with DR's??

1.8X 60' is pretty lame with 530rwhp. (although its not THAT bad as a 'street' setup)

With a good wheel/tire it should go low 11's, easy.
everyone will see once you cross that 1.65 thresh hold in the 60ft wheel hop will start to play a factor then it's time for some pedders action .. I have gone a best of 1.58 in my G8 but average 1.61 .. The maggie makes so much tq at 2600-2800 rpm it's hard to not spin any Drag radial [ I have 5 set's all with different dr's ]

Lastly Nice gains and a nice run the maggie are great as a double duty blower ..
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:24 AM   #77
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Matt is now my favorite new member...



JK I love all of you, even the mustang guys...

Thanks for a great post Matt.

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Old 05-18-2009, 07:27 AM   #78
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:07 AM   #79
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More Horsepower

ok with all the performance enhancing equip I've seen . For the most part its waaaaay to expensive. I mean if you don't own or work at a shop or have disposable income most of these mod's just won't happen. now for those who work blue collor 9-5 jobs this is a working mans camero. Fisrt off we can't afford the v8 so take the v6 and first thing give me a cold air intake for $395.00 and new bigger headers $1895.00 that's at least 20-40 hp. then open the exhaust 1450.00 and away we go now were pushing over 400 with a v6 and haven't broken the bank to get it. I might spend clost to 3g's with parts and labor now all I got to do it pay anothere 3-500 hundred to get it dyno tuned for that great growl and peak perfomance. great car built for less than 30 g's I mean come on who's gonna need 500hbp on the street.

Last edited by kalioaklandg; 05-18-2009 at 08:26 AM. Reason: mispelled words
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:16 AM   #80
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So, we are talking a 10sec camaro if u had a decent rear gear ratio. SWEET!

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Old 05-18-2009, 09:47 AM   #81
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This car will be a beast!!! What I don't know is if the rear axle (half shafts) is strong enough to handle all that rwhp with DRs at ¼ mile track.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:01 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by kalioaklandg View Post
ok with all the performance enhancing equip I've seen . For the most part its waaaaay to expensive. I mean if you don't own or work at a shop or have disposable income most of these mod's just won't happen. now for those who work blue collor 9-5 jobs this is a working mans camaro. Fisrt off we can't afford the v8 so take the v6 and first thing give me a cold air intake for $395.00 and new bigger headers $1895.00 that's at least 20-40 hp. then open the exhaust 1450.00 and away we go now were pushing over 400 with a v6 and haven't broken the bank to get it. I might spend clost to 3g's with parts and labor now all I got to do it pay anothere 3-500 hundred to get it dyno tuned for that great growl and peak perfomance. great car built for less than 30 g's I mean come on who's gonna need 500hbp on the street.
Let me see if I can save you $1000 of that $1450 exhaust! If you get the right headers (AR, for example) they will go all the way back to the stock mufflers. So, instead, pick your favorite axle back or better yet....pick your favorite muffler with tips and bolt those on. MUCH cheaper and will sound just as good! just my 2 cents...
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:07 AM   #83
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1.8X 60' is pretty lame with 530rwhp. (although its not THAT bad as a 'street' setup)

With a good wheel/tire it should go low 11's, easy.
Have you ever launched a car that probably weighs over 4000lbs (incl driver) with stock suspension on a 20" drag radial? I do it all the time (Well, launch a 4Klb car, but not on a 20" drag radial) and yes, 1.8x is not the best 60ft time in the world, but given that only a few passes have been made wit this combo, I'd say they're doing prtty good. I figure you might be able to get in the 1.7x range with the 20" drag radials, but not much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IneedAZ View Post
So, we are talking a 10sec camaro if u had a decent rear gear ratio. SWEET!
No, it's going to take more power than that to get into the 10's. These are not light cars and the things that might have worked for folks with 4th Gen cars will not necessarily hold true with the Gen5. You should not be trying to compare what 530rwhp would accomplish in a 4th Gen to what the same power is capable of in the new car.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:10 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
did you seriously just say that?
sure did. when 1/2 people have no clue on 60' times, tires, rwhp vs fwhp, cams, et vs mph, hp vs mph vs et, driving and their main arguement is GT500 vs SS+ blower vs $$$ among other things.... lame.


damn cool to see mid 11 ET's and its damn awesome to see a blown 2010 put together so quicly. It would just be nice to see intelligent comments. I know its too much to ask on the internet though. sorry, 10 years of browsing through the same BS has made me synical.
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31000 for ss1 no options and who in the hell would buy a SS1 V6 for kids SS1 for girls LS3 the only way to go G8 Gxp 200lbs more my bad so lets think here 200lb more 27 less hp so 5 tenths slower now 373 gear now mabe 3tenths slower 4 door car sad so so sad
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:18 AM   #85
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Have you ever launched a car that probably weighs over 4000lbs (incl driver) with stock suspension on a 20" drag radial? I do it all the time (Well, launch a 4Klb car, but not on a 20" drag radial) and yes, 1.8x is not the best 60ft time in the world, but given that only a few passes have been made wit this combo, I'd say they're doing prtty good. I figure you might be able to get in the 1.7x range with the 20" drag radials, but not much better.

No, it's going to take more power than that to get into the 10's. These are not light cars and the things that might have worked for folks with 4th Gen cars will not necessarily hold true with the Gen5. You should not be trying to compare what 530rwhp would accomplish in a 4th Gen to what the same power is capable of in the new car.
it takes more than 530rwhp to get into the 10's?? are you joking? 450 rwhp would get 10's on a 4th gen (M6). I bet 530 rwhp and 18" DR's will easily get in the 10's in good weather

i apologize, i missed the 20" DR's. I thought they looked smaller in the video.

obviously its all relative... a 5th gen on 20's isn't going to lay down impressive ET vs rwhp. its just comical to see people j i z z over something that is nothing more than expected.

anyone that spends 1500 on a cat-back or headers is a freaking moron. You can get a set of mufflers for $100 and have them welded in/installed and get the same or better sound/hp for 1/10th the price. you could also probalby go to home depot and make a CAI for $50. the aftermarket companies are going to rape people until there is a decent supply of aftermarket parts for the 5th gen.
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Originally Posted by hsdguru View Post
31000 for ss1 no options and who in the hell would buy a SS1 V6 for kids SS1 for girls LS3 the only way to go G8 Gxp 200lbs more my bad so lets think here 200lb more 27 less hp so 5 tenths slower now 373 gear now mabe 3tenths slower 4 door car sad so so sad

Last edited by 383ss; 05-18-2009 at 11:26 AM. Reason: language
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:21 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by 383ss View Post
it takes more than 530rwhp to get into the 10's?? are you joking? 450 rwhp would get 10's on a 4th gen (M6). I bet 530 rwhp and 18" DR's will get it close to if not in 10's in good weather

i apologize, i missed the 20" DR's. I thought they looked smaller in the video.

obviously its all relative... a 5th gen on 20's isn't going to lay down impressive ET vs rwhp. its just comical to see people ***** over something that is nothing more than expected.
How bout you spend a bit more time explaining the situation instead of LOLing at enthusiastic members.

How's that sound?
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:36 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Matt TuneTime View Post
about 20% on a 6spd and 24% on an auto [ 6l80e has a higher power requirement to turn then a 4l60e ]
Maybe on a mustang dyno those %'s will hold up, but not on a Dynojet. For reference, look at all the SAE Certified engines and see what they dyno at the wheels. You will see that the typical set up loses ~12% for a manual, ~15% for the auto on a dynojet.

To be losing 20+% at the wheels, you must be running a 9" rear end + an inefficient transmission, such as a C6 or maybe even a TH400.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:36 PM   #88
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it takes more than 530rwhp to get into the 10's?? are you joking? 450 rwhp would get 10's on a 4th gen (M6). I bet 530 rwhp and 18" DR's will easily get in the 10's in good weather.
I guess you missed the part about trying to compare a Gen4 Camaro to a Gen5 Camaro. If I had the rwhp my GT500 makes in a '03-'04 Cobra, I could runs faster times, too. How about you get yourself a Gen5 Camaro, and see what you can do with it, stock weight and suspension, and get back with us. It's obvious from your posts that the rest of us lack your John Force-level skill set when it comes to getting the maximum times out of this car, so we'll just let you set the standard.

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Old 05-18-2009, 12:39 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N View Post
Maybe on a mustang dyno those %'s will hold up, but not on a Dynojet. For reference, look at all the SAE Certified engines and see what they dyno at the wheels. You will see that the typical set up loses ~12% for a manual, ~15% for the auto on a dynojet.

To be losing 20+% at the wheels, you must be running a 9" rear end + an inefficient transmission, such as a C6 or maybe even a TH400.
You are spot on Evil .... about 12% for manual and 15% for auto on the dynojet ..

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Old 05-18-2009, 02:02 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N View Post
Maybe on a mustang dyno those %'s will hold up, but not on a Dynojet. For reference, look at all the SAE Certified engines and see what they dyno at the wheels. You will see that the typical set up loses ~12% for a manual, ~15% for the auto on a dynojet.

To be losing 20+% at the wheels, you must be running a 9" rear end + an inefficient transmission, such as a C6 or maybe even a TH400.
Right the point is there is no way that 5th gen has only 12% loss .. Not even close . For instance Engine dynoed 402 ls motor made 607 at the crank on a superflow engine dyno . Installed in Corvette C5 [ I'm sure all who know whould agree 18% dr loss for 6spd car ] It made 514 whp on our mustang dyno .. that
We have done a large amount of testing as well as baseline runs on SAE Certed motors . Also back to my first post The 6l80e takes more power to turn like a 4l80e so less then a 4l60e
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:26 PM   #91
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John at Hennessey,
I have a question about the HP gains. You show that you had a 14 hp gain with the CAI. What was the gain with the Corsa exhaust and did you try any others or is that the only brand you use?
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:07 PM   #92
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Right the point is there is no way that 5th gen has only 12% loss .. Not even close . For instance Engine dynoed 402 ls motor made 607 at the crank on a superflow engine dyno . Installed in Corvette C5 [ I'm sure all who know whould agree 18% dr loss for 6spd car ] It made 514 whp on our mustang dyno .. that
We have done a large amount of testing as well as baseline runs on SAE Certed motors . Also back to my first post The 6l80e takes more power to turn like a 4l80e so less then a 4l60e
superflow dyno's read quite high from what I've seen.

as an example, here is a superflow dyno of an 03 Cobra motor with a pulley only (basically, my set up)

thats 583 HP and 574 TQ. And that equals out ~450-460 rwhp. BS. That would mean a GT500, that makes 500 SAE certified hp and makes ~440 rwhp, really makes 550+ HP? I don't think so, otherwise there wouldn't be an SAE Certification program. Same goes with the LS3, LS9, LSeverything. EVERY engine that has been certified.

I will agree with you that an engine loses 20-20+% when going from a superflow dyno to chassis dyno, but a superflow dyno is not what is used to rate HP in the SAE Certification program and also is not the dyno used to calculate factory engine HP's.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:57 PM   #93
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John at Hennessey,
I have a question about the HP gains. You show that you had a 14 hp gain with the CAI. What was the gain with the Corsa exhaust and did you try any others or is that the only brand you use?
At this time, we have not had a chance to test Corsa or any other exhaust systems on a Camaro without the blower. Hopefully we will soon.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:00 PM   #94
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So when are we getting track numbers?
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:10 PM   #95
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So when are we getting track numbers?
The numbers have been posted!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23195
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:47 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N View Post
superflow dyno's read quite high from what I've seen.

as an example, here is a superflow dyno of an 03 Cobra motor with a pulley only (basically, my set up)

thats 583 HP and 574 TQ. And that equals out ~450-460 rwhp. BS. That would mean a GT500, that makes 500 SAE certified hp and makes ~440 rwhp, really makes 550+ HP? I don't think so, otherwise there wouldn't be an SAE Certification program. Same goes with the LS3, LS9, LSeverything. EVERY engine that has been certified.

I will agree with you that an engine loses 20-20+% when going from a superflow dyno to chassis dyno, but a superflow dyno is not what is used to rate HP in the SAE Certification program and also is not the dyno used to calculate factory engine HP's.
Using your gt500 example [ solid axle less loss ] 500hp crank = I have stock graphs from 410-430 but I have 2 at 422 whp.. so 422 X 1.18 = 497 Why is this wrong ?

As for the superflow engine dyno they do have an SAE setting and we request it is used and our results seem to be within 1-2% ..

Also keep in mind a 3000lb roller can't create an equal a load esp on a 4000lb car .
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:42 PM   #97
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it takes more than 530rwhp to get into the 10's?? are you joking? 450 rwhp would get 10's on a 4th gen (M6). I bet 530 rwhp and 18" DR's will easily get in the 10's in good weather
dude, how are you going to compare a 4th gen to a 5th gen when the previous generation is like 450-500 lbs lighter.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:49 PM   #98
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Using your gt500 example [ solid axle less loss ] 500hp crank = I have stock graphs from 410-430 but I have 2 at 422 whp.. so 422 X 1.18 = 497 Why is this wrong ?

As for the superflow engine dyno they do have an SAE setting and we request it is used and our results seem to be within 1-2% ..

Also keep in mind a 3000lb roller can't create an equal a load esp on a 4000lb car .
Those are a little on the low side, but either way, your math is wrong. To correctly find the HP would be to DIVIDE 422 by .8x to find the loss. EXA) 422 / .85 (15% loss) would be ~497 hp.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:17 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N View Post
Maybe on a mustang dyno those %'s will hold up, but not on a Dynojet. For reference, look at all the SAE Certified engines and see what they dyno at the wheels. You will see that the typical set up loses ~12% for a manual, ~15% for the auto on a dynojet.

To be losing 20+% at the wheels, you must be running a 9" rear end + an inefficient transmission, such as a C6 or maybe even a TH400.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N View Post
Those are a little on the low side, but either way, your math is wrong. To correctly find the HP would be to DIVIDE 422 by .8x to find the loss. EXA) 422 / .85 (15% loss) would be ~497 hp.
Ok so based on that we will say your 12% and my 18% where of . So it seems that 15% is correct for a solid axle stick car , so 18% for IRS would be normal loss for stick car , 20-21 % for auto IRS [ assuming 4l60e and one piece drive shaft ] and we are back to my original 23-24% for 2 piece drive shaft and 6l80e . You can add drivetrain componants and not add to the loss .
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:45 PM   #100
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My god men......All this math is shrinking my brain.

Are we really arguing about percentages +/- ?
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