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Old 06-15-2012, 02:27 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
(I'm playing devils advocate by the way)

I say order w/o, then win the price comparison too.

Base model vert is faster than last years PP coupe around Sebring, so I'm sure the base coupe this year performs just fine.
In that regard, I agree. I personally would not order the Track Pac but would definitely want the Performance Package, whih makes the price a toss up with thr GG tax on the chevy.....but then you have features on the Z that are not on the Stang and hence, not an equal comparison, technically
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:31 PM   #546
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Of course you can't.... That's part of the mandatory package GM says you want.

I wouldn't have my car if PP and TP were required into MSRP.
IMHO, If I'm spending damn near $60K on a car (out the door), a few thousand more is not going to sway my purchase decision on the car THAT I WANT. Most, if they can afford $60k, they can also afford $65k.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:01 PM   #547
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It's not like Launch Control is new technology or anything. It's already on the SS. Tuning launch control took a little time I'm sure, but why wouldn't they add it. It's not like they had to add 200 pounds to the car to program the computer to do it.
Nothing on the zl1 is new technology. New to the Camaro sure, but all of it already existed in the GM parts been. The zl1 is a Frankenstein car.

Sedan chassis
CTS-V engine
CTS-V/Corvette MRC/PTM

An awesome collection of parts, to be sure, but not exactly one-off engineered.

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Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro View Post
GM said this was going to be a car that people will take to the track and emphasized how the focus was how well the handling is going to be on road courses but knew that people will also take it to the straight line tracks. That's what makes this car an ALL-around performer, may not excel at it but still is capable of competing at either one.
That is the definition of both cars. Are we now going as far as to say one is a better all-around performance car?

Last edited by tooslow; 06-15-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:17 PM   #548
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The same folks that publish MM&FF also publish GMHTP (GM High Tech Performance), so it is quite possible (even likely) that whomever tests a Mustang for MM&FF also tests the Camaro for GMHTP. Hard for them to lie in one and tell the truth in another. Might get caught.
BTW, it's the SAME company that now owns svtperf, too.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:21 PM   #549
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Originally Posted by tooslow View Post
Nothing on the zl1 is new technology. New to the Camaro sure, but all of it already existed in the GM parts been.

CTS-V/Corvette MRC/PTM

An awesome collection of parts, to be sure, but not exactly one-off engineered.

That is the definition of both cars. Are we now going as far as to say one is a better all-around performance car?
MRC 3.0 is now unique to the Camaro ZL1.

Thanks again for your factual content...

All-around best performer?

We'll leave that to Inside Line...and others...
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:23 PM   #550
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It would seem the bulk of development on the ZL1 went into road course performance (suspension, aero, PTM) but they knew people would still want to drag race the car so they spent some development time there - just like people drag race Boss 302s. The GT500 has an awesome engine and it seems more focused on drag racing. They knew some would still want to take it to the road course so they offer those packages as well.

Now people from both sides will argue each car’s strength, saying the other is a loser. Some Chevy guys are disappointed with the ZL1's straight line performance because maybe they favor drag racing. Some Ford guys will be angry if the GT500 doesn't win on the road course because it has so much more power they feel it should win hands down and remind everyone about ‘forged internals’. I’m sure if Chevy wanted to build the end-all-be-all drag racer they could have. Same goes for a Mustang road racing champion. But instead we have diversity – not a bad thing.

Anti-ZL1 people use ‘ZL1 was a drag car in 69’; ‘supercharged cars aren’t track cars’; and ‘muscle cars drag race’ amongst other arguments to make themselves feel better. Maybe some Chevy guys insecure about the ZL1’s straight line performance hide behind the track performance of the ZL1. Guys who are insecure about their GT or SS state how they’ve spent $500 in mods and are faster than both cars.

Everybody likes competition and nobody likes to lose. At the end of the day you are either in the market for one of these cars or you aren’t. If you are you can buy whatever you like – including cars other than the ZL1 or GT500. Nobody will think any less of you. If you aren’t, great - be happy with whatever car you have. No need to be a hater on either. What a great time to be an automotive enthusiast.

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Old 06-15-2012, 03:38 PM   #551
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good for you

Sorry, I didn't keep mine. I try not to reminisce.

Come'on folks, isn't it clear enough that Ford folks will love their Mustangs and Chevy folks will love their Camaros? Both are great cars.
Granted. But had I been shopping for a replacement for my BMW now rather than a year and a half ago, I'm not sure where I would have spent my money.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:44 PM   #552
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Originally Posted by AZ-ZL1 View Post
In that regard, I agree. I personally would not order the Track Pac but would definitely want the Performance Package, whih makes the price a toss up with thr GG tax on the chevy.....but then you have features on the Z that are not on the Stang and hence, not an equal comparison, technically
Then there is never going to be an 'equal' comparison because 662hp, gps, and recaros are not available on zl1.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:47 PM   #553
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Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords magazine. The editors who can drive and will do a fair test between the two.

Not some ricer mag who's editors couldn't handle an 80 year old woman driver in western, NC.
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LOL Do you really think you will be able to use anything from them on this site as Gospel? Good Luck.
It would be like me posting a test from Super Chevy Mag on a Ford Site. You will be laughed at.
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They know in each case their audience would probably stop buying that particular magazine if their car did not "WIN". I would trust any magazine that is not dedicated to a particular make or model before I would trust one that is.
Speaking of MM&FF, I remember when the LS1 just made it's way to the f-body, they tested it against the current Mustang at the time, and they came out and flat said that the F-body will destroy the Mustang. It was surprising reading that in the Ford magazine, but at the time, I owned a 98 Z28, so I didn't care lol
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:49 PM   #554
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They know in each case their audience would probably stop buying that particular magazine if their car did not "WIN". I would trust any magazine that is not dedicated to a particular make or model before I would trust one that is.
Obviously you have never picked up an issue of MM&FF. They actually have quite a reputation for testing cars to the best of their ability, regardless of make. You may want to look into their test of the ls1 camaro vs the new edge cobra where they ran one of the first 12s passes in a stock f-body and basically deemed it the king of pony cars.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:50 PM   #555
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I just want to say this again, I think Chevy made a mistake in naming this car, it should from it's road racing heritage have been called the Z28. The original ZL1 WAS built for drag racing, and that is where I feel they made the mistake. ZL1=DRAG CAR...Z28=ROAD & TRACK CAR. JMHO.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:53 PM   #556
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Originally Posted by 8cd03gro View Post
Obviously you have never picked up an issue of MM&FF. They actually have quite a reputation for testing cars to the best of their ability, regardless of make. You may want to look into their test of the ls1 camaro vs the new edge cobra where they ran one of the first 12s passes in a stock f-body and basically deemed it the king of pony cars.
Why would I? I have no interest in either one, and for you to think they are the only true source for information is being narrow minded.
May I ask who decides their reputation?
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:58 PM   #557
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I enjoyed reading the article. I'm still a little confused why the GT500 didn't pull over 1G. My 2011 GT500 did so that's kind of weird. I'm looking forward to an actual review of them on a track with a pro driver before a clear winner is crowned. I've always figured the GT500 would be faster in the straight and the ZL1 the better handler.

With that said I'll be staying clear of a ZL1 in my Walmart parking lot.
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:04 PM   #558
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I enjoyed reading the article. I'm still a little confused why the GT500 didn't pull over 1G. My 2011 GT500 did so that's kind of weird. I'm looking forward to an actual review of them on a track with a pro driver before a clear winner is crowned. I've always figured the GT500 would be faster in the straight and the ZL1 the better handler.

With that said I'll be staying clear of a ZL1 in my Walmart parking lot.
Several factors could I would guess, temperature of the track for one, cooler temps= more grip, but the the ZL1 would have done better also in that case.
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:11 PM   #559
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A new GT500 review.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/...00-convertible
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:15 PM   #560
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Why would I? I have no interest in either one, and for you to think they are the only true source for information is being narrow minded.
May I ask who decides their reputation?
Wow, that's quite a conclusion to draw from my post. I've never had so many words stuffed into my mouth at once.
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:28 PM   #561
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Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
I just want to say this again, I think Chevy made a mistake in naming this car, it should from it's road racing heritage have been called the Z28. The original ZL1 WAS built for drag racing, and that is where I feel they made the mistake. ZL1=DRAG CAR...Z28=ROAD & TRACK CAR. JMHO.
I agree 100%. The ZL1 possesses more characteristics you would expect from the Z28. A tamed down version of the COPO into production would be more like the ZL1.
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