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Old 06-15-2012, 12:58 PM   #533
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The same folks that publish MM&FF also publish GMHTP (GM High Tech Performance), so it is quite possible (even likely) that whomever tests a Mustang for MM&FF also tests the Camaro for GMHTP. Hard for them to lie in one and tell the truth in another. Might get caught.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:01 PM   #534
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And neither will Ford driver's attitudes. I've been into Camaros from the 70's (man, I feel old), but I know that Ford's high end Mustang cost more than Chevy's high end Camaro. All my Camaros have been reliable and just so you know, i've seen forged pistons break also. And it seems that technology have come a long way, as high performance shops like Redline, ADM, Hennessey have all up the boost and gained horsepower. Tuning helps.

Again, Ford built a great engine. Chevy built a great car.

Oh?

I have a sticker that says otherwise...
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...if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the GT500 retains it's title of the highest hp, worst performing car in the world.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:09 PM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby View Post
The same folks that publish MM&FF also publish GMHTP (GM High Tech Performance), so it is quite possible (even likely) that whomever tests a Mustang for MM&FF also tests the Camaro for GMHTP. Hard for them to lie in one and tell the truth in another. Might get caught.
They know in each case their audience would probably stop buying that particular magazine if their car did not "WIN". I would trust any magazine that is not dedicated to a particular make or model before I would trust one that is.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:12 PM   #536
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Oh?

I have a sticker that says otherwise...
So you have a sticker from both?
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:13 PM   #537
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Oh?

I have a sticker that says otherwise...
good for you

Sorry, I didn't keep mine. I try not to reminisce.

Come'on folks, isn't it clear enough that Ford folks will love their Mustangs and Chevy folks will love their Camaros? Both are great cars.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:16 PM   #538
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A new Stang with the perf and track pack with recaros is only a few thousand more than the Z. This accounts for the auto trans GG tax on the ZL1.

My Z = $59.6 (deduct $1300 of gas tax for manual)

Build your own Stang = $63K

Pretty close since Recaros are N/A on the Camaro
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:17 PM   #539
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I know they'll both love their cars, itd be stupid to suggest otherwise. But I do believe GT500s come in at 54,995.

1300 less than a ZL1 no?
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...if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the GT500 retains it's title of the highest hp, worst performing car in the world.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:18 PM   #540
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I know they'll both love their cars, itd be stupid to suggest otherwise. But I do believe GT500s come in at 54,995.

1300 less than a ZL1 no?
Not with the Track Pack...

You're welcome to do comparison tests all day long with the Mustang without if you want
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:20 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by AZ-ZL1 View Post
A new Stang with the perf and track pack with recaros is only a few thousand more than the Z. This accounts for the auto trans GG tax on the ZL1.

My Z = $59.6 (deduct $1300 of gas tax for manual)

Build your own Stang = $63K

Pretty close since Recaros are N/A on the Camaro
Why do we need TP and PP? It's already been made clear it won't win with them....


So, order without (particularly if youre like me and expect the car to never be timed on a road course)
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...if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the GT500 retains it's title of the highest hp, worst performing car in the world.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:21 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Why do we need TP and PP? It's already been made clear it won't win with them....


So, order without (particularly if youre like me and expect the car to never be timed on a road course)
Only to compare more accurately apples to apples.

You cannot remove the extra cooling features or MRC from the Z
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:23 PM   #543
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(I'm playing devils advocate by the way)

I say order w/o, then win the price comparison too.

Base model vert is faster than last years PP coupe around Sebring, so I'm sure the base coupe this year performs just fine.
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...if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the GT500 retains it's title of the highest hp, worst performing car in the world.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:25 PM   #544
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Of course you can't.... That's part of the mandatory package GM says you want.

I wouldn't have my car if PP and TP were required into MSRP.
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...if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the GT500 retains it's title of the highest hp, worst performing car in the world.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:27 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
(I'm playing devils advocate by the way)

I say order w/o, then win the price comparison too.

Base model vert is faster than last years PP coupe around Sebring, so I'm sure the base coupe this year performs just fine.
In that regard, I agree. I personally would not order the Track Pac but would definitely want the Performance Package, whih makes the price a toss up with thr GG tax on the chevy.....but then you have features on the Z that are not on the Stang and hence, not an equal comparison, technically
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:31 PM   #546
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Of course you can't.... That's part of the mandatory package GM says you want.

I wouldn't have my car if PP and TP were required into MSRP.
IMHO, If I'm spending damn near $60K on a car (out the door), a few thousand more is not going to sway my purchase decision on the car THAT I WANT. Most, if they can afford $60k, they can also afford $65k.
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