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Old 06-25-2012, 05:40 PM   #951
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sort of. I have almost sacked out my Z06 twice. was it fun or scarry???

I alreay have a car that is scarry at the limit. If I was going to keep my Z06 that would be my next money spent trying to make it a bit more predictable.

It is easy to say "fun" on the internet but when you are entering corners near tripple digits and have issues It is scary to me at times and not as fun.
This guy gets it.

Anyone who has actually tracked their cars or raced competitively knows that the holy grail is a car that can comfortably maintain the most speed in the corners.

Thowing hp at a car to get a better lap time is definitley not the solution. If you have a car with a lot of body roll and tons of understeer, it is not nearly as fun on the racetrack.

The fact that Insideline chose the ZL1 as a better track car despite a slightly slower time is not bias, it's obvious. The ZL1 did what a track car should - it handled exceptionally well. The GT500 was fast but was way down in cornering speed and the only way they could get the car to rotate well through the corners was to induce power-oversteer (great for tire wear!)

I don't care if you like the GT500 or ZL1, but those whining about the comparisons and being in denial about the ZL1 being a better track car should let it go. The results AND the reviews speak for themselves.

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Old 06-25-2012, 06:54 PM   #952
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Neato!
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:53 PM   #953
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Very cool (and refreshing) to see/read two level headed gearheads talk car's, and taking them out on the track for a little H2H fun.......congrat's to both of you.
Right on!

Erik, at some point we just need to know what one another is doing for set up.

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Old 06-25-2012, 08:27 PM   #954
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13 GT500 posts better numbers just about all the way around (lap time, especially) but the a writer seems like it hurts him to admit it. From the few comparisons I've seen there seems to be a clear bias towards the Camaro. What are your opinions?
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...ison-test.html
I think so far we have seen a tie overall: 1 to 1 in road racing. The issue I have with the latter test is that the GT500 put down a better time but EMOTION had a role to play in the end. I dont agree with that one bit. You can go to ANY actual sanctioned event and I promise you will NEVER find emotions (other than joy) at the announcement of the winner. All that determines this is the only thing that matters in an actual race: the time it took to finish. The magazines need to leave the opinions out and let the times speak for themselves.

Disclaimer: I understand that people are passionate about their cars. It bothers me to see people skewing facts. For now, as I see it: 1 to 1. The only thing that I can see or consider a reasonable opinion is daily driving the car/comfort factor. It appears the ZL1 is better suited for this.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:50 PM   #955
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Originally Posted by PistonsFan View Post
This guy gets it.

Anyone who has actually tracked there cars or raced competitively knows that the holy grail is a car that can comfortably maintain the most speed in the corners.

Thowing hp at a car to get a better lap time is definitley not the solution. If you have a car with a lot of body roll and tons of understeer, it is not nearly as fun on the racetrack.

The fact that Insideline chose the ZL1 as a better track car despite a slightly slower time is not bias, it's obvious. The ZL1 did what a track car should - it handled exceptionally well. The GT500 was fast but was way down in cornering speed and the only way they could get the car to rotate well through the corners was to induce power-oversteer (great for tire wear!)

I don't care if you like the GT500 or ZL1, but those whining about the comparisons and being in denial about the ZL1 being a better track car should let it go. The results AND the reviews speak for themselves.
Anyone who races either of these cars competitively has more money than I would know what to do with.
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...if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the GT500 retains it's title of the highest hp, worst performing car in the world.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:07 PM   #956
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I think so far we have seen a tie overall: 1 to 1 in road racing. The issue I have with the latter test is that the GT500 put down a better time but EMOTION had a role to play in the end. I dont agree with that one bit. You can go to ANY actual sanctioned event and I promise you will NEVER find emotions (other than joy) at the announcement of the winner. All that determines this is the only thing that matters in an actual race: the time it took to finish. The magazines need to leave the opinions out and let the times speak for themselves.

Disclaimer: I understand that people are passionate about their cars. It bothers me to see people skewing facts. For now, as I see it: 1 to 1. The only thing that I can see or consider a reasonable opinion is daily driving the car/comfort factor. It appears the ZL1 is better suited for this.
I disagree. I don't think there is any issue with the article, really. It's a product review and comparison. Most reasons people purchase a car are subjective. They preferred the zl1 and they explained why. That's their job the way I see it. In this comparison the gt500 was faster, but the zl1 was preferred. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:27 PM   #957
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Great Stuff here...
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:35 PM   #958
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Gm quotes curb weight with all fluids topped off. I am assuming that means fuel also.

Sebring is a fast course, I would assume that might favor the mustang, but Sebring is also bumpy, hmmm..........
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:38 PM   #959
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Driver driver driver.

If a pro driver gets in a stock GT and I race him around an sutocross and he beats me does that mean his car is better?

Point being the cars are both pretty bad ass. The fact that one was a tad faster means NOTHING. The driver has more to do with it that many think.

And I've said it before (speaking to everyone) ........... if YOU didn't hit the time then STFU.


And..... may I add, "If YOU don't OWN one......"
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:38 PM   #960
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I didn't see the article saying what options both cars had. I have trouble believing the gt500 ran that track time with the base suspension. I see where the article tells you what the base price is on both cars, but it doesn't say that's the way the car was equipped for this track test. I'm betting the Mustang had the optional suspension pieces and the cost associated with that.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:04 PM   #961
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It sucks but I think the gt500 will beat the zl1 at the ring. The road has some serious fast sections. I think they are both great cars and since this is the almost the money level where 5 g extra doesn't matter to the buyers we have supper potential in both. I am sure the gt500 with full ultra high dollar suspension and some wider wheels and tires will get faster. The zl1 will also get faster with some engine mods. Ie tune and pulley. Shit u can buy a used viper for this cash and smoke either one. But u better have ur big boy pants on if u want to drive a viper fast. Seems like no one ever complains how hard they are to drive!
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:15 PM   #962
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Any serious Racers would build a race car designed for whatever race they wish to participate in. All of you compare a after market car (SHELBY GT500) to a production car (ZL1) and want to bash it. When Ford builds a production car that's better, let me know. If you want to compare after market cars, lets compare the HPE700 to the Shelby. Don't want to do that huh... why not, is it because we ALL know the answer to that?
I'm constantly amazed that a car enthusiast still can get this wrong, especially with Google such a handy tool. The GT500 is a production car built on the same line as any other Mustang. Dude, you should be driving a Civic not a Camaro.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:27 PM   #963
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After reading all of this I was unaware that the GT500 was cheaper than the ZL1, The GT500 is clearly faster in a straight line and is as fast on a road course so if I was spending my money on those two particulars the GT500 wins hands down in price, power and track speed but I agree its a crap shoot between these two cars in any type of race.
Am I missing something? ZL1 $54,095 13 GT500 $54,200
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:33 PM   #964
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I feel ya on this point, but I offer another view....

Which is superior in a dogfight... a modern-day F-15 Eagle fighter jet, or a WWII Corsair? And I think anyone would say the answer would be the F-15. The F15 benefits from superior technology and is therefore the winner hands down in a head to head fight. Of course, the Corsair pilot may have full control of his aircraft via cables, but the F15 pilot has computerized fly-by-wire technology that allows him to dominate the air. When it comes to winning, you take every advantage you can get!!
Now, with that said, I do LOVE to have full control of my vehicles, especially when I'm driving with spirit.... LOL! But I'll also take advantage of technology to make me a better driver!!
Great analogy, in the end the numbers really dont matter. Two great cars, both run great numbers. Both have their advantages, now lets see some of this good stuff trickle down for those that drive the bread and butter cars V6, GT and SS
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:35 PM   #965
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Am I missing something? ZL1 $54,095 13 GT500 $54,200
ZL1 has a gas guzzler tax...though with optional packages the GT500 gets closer to 64,000
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:46 PM   #966
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GT500......Who cares anyway? Its a Ford. Last time I looked this is a CAMARO site and a ZL1 forum. Who gives a mouses behind about what the GT500 does and doesn't do.

Most of the people commenting don't even own a ZL1 or a GT500, so unless you own one or the other, no-one is interested in your opinion anyway.

Mods this is another thread to ditch to the useless Ford mega whiner thread.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:47 PM   #967
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I know you are setting up responses to get people banned, but I wont take the bait.


you honestly cannot be serious? This GT500 is a PRODUCTION car.

So much so that there will be probably 2 or 2.5 GT500's built for every ZL1.


"The data also showed how much more consistent our lines and lap times were with the Camaro. In contrast, the Mustang's laps were filled with lots of throttle and steering adjustments, not to mention plenty of slides."

My favorite part about the review was this sentence. The guy basically admitted he was not man enough to drive the GT500. Of course a car with 100 less hp and 100 pounds of tq will be easier to drive.

This is why magazines are not worth reading anymore. Like the NFL they have millions of people watching them see the play in slow motion time after time and they still make the wrong call.
Does the car leave the Ford Plant and go to the Shelby facility for the upgrades..... if so, it is after manufacture production. If you still call it production after that, then why is any car that is sent to Hennessey straight from the factory for upgrades not concidered a production car?
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:52 PM   #968
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Does the car leave the Ford Plant and go to the Shelby facility for the upgrades..... if so, it is after manufacture production. If you still call it production after that, then why is any car that is sent to Hennessey straight from the factory for upgrades not concidered a production car?
...


the gt500 never leaves ford. its a shelby in name only really. its built in the ford plant, by ford employees, transported from the plant to ford dealers, then sold by ford salesmen
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:58 PM   #969
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...


the gt500 never leaves ford. its a shelby in name only really. its built in the ford plant, by ford employees, transported from the plant to ford dealers, then sold by ford salesmen
I just read that.... so it's not even a true Shelby....WOW! At least it performs!
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:01 PM   #970
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I just read that.... so it's not even a true Shelby....WOW! At least it performs!
shelby has licensed his name to ford for years for the 500's. the shelby gt cars are shelby serial numbers, they start as a gt then go to shelby american.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:01 PM   #971
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Does the car leave the Ford Plant and go to the Shelby facility for the upgrades..... if so, it is after manufacture production. If you still call it production after that, then why is any car that is sent to Hennessey straight from the factory for upgrades not concidered a production car?
GT500 rolls right down the prodution line and thats it. Never goes anywhere else. GT500 is the same as the SVT Cobra. Its been that way since 2007...if the GT500 isnt a production car then neither is your SS. So try to do some research next time
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:04 PM   #972
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Thanks to Erik and Van, not only is this the best thread ever, in any forum I belong to but easily the most anticipated track event of the year. I literally checked my calendar to see if I could attend in person. I can't.

My respect and admiration to both of you. Have fun!
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:09 PM   #973
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I had to laugh about this comment:

skyggge says:
06:11 AM, 06/25/2012
Disclaimer: This is purely meant to be humorous.

This is the first thing I thought of after reading this article:

GT500: What are you smiling about?

ZL1: Dude I almost had you!

GT500: Almost had me? You never had me. You never had your car... Ask any racer, any REAL racer. It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winnings winning.
lol its funny..i think thats from the first fast and furious movie...anyway i love the ZL1 its a truly amazing car and so is the GT500. i cant wait to see if GM will try and top the horse power numbers. with the 6.2 liter motor they have so much potential to gain more horse power so they can go back and forth and next thing u know they will have over 700 hp stock!!!!
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:17 AM   #974
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I disagree. I don't think there is any issue with the article, really. It's a product review and comparison. Most reasons people purchase a car are subjective. They preferred the zl1 and they explained why. That's their job the way I see it. In this comparison the gt500 was faster, but the zl1 was preferred. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Then what was the point of taking the cars to the track? If car A ran a faster time, why declare car b the winner? Maybe I got lost somewhere, but it doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:43 AM   #975
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Because it was A lap. They admit you can run A fast lap in the GT500, but you can consistently run fast laps in he ZL1. And that was one course. Other courses will be different results. I would like to see all of the hot lap times for both cars. I would bet the ZL1 was faster more often than the GT500. Or was it posted and I missed it?
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