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Old 06-26-2012, 02:27 AM   #976
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Originally Posted by 10forty2 View Post
I feel ya on this point, but I offer another view....

Which is superior in a dogfight... a modern-day F-15 Eagle fighter jet, or a WWII Corsair? And I think anyone would say the answer would be the F-15. The F15 benefits from superior technology and is therefore the winner hands down in a head to head fight. Of course, the Corsair pilot may have full control of his aircraft via cables, but the F15 pilot has computerized fly-by-wire technology that allows him to dominate the air. When it comes to winning, you take every advantage you can get!!
Now, with that said, I do LOVE to have full control of my vehicles, especially when I'm driving with spirit.... LOL! But I'll also take advantage of technology to make me a better driver!!
Actually the F-15 is outdated and not full "fly-by-wire" although does incorporate the technology with mechanical flight control systems. A better analogy would be the F-22 Raptor or the F-35 Lightning II.
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:37 AM   #977
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Originally Posted by 10forty2 View Post
I feel ya on this point, but I offer another view....

Which is superior in a dogfight... a modern-day F-15 Eagle fighter jet, or a WWII Corsair? And I think anyone would say the answer would be the F-15. The F15 benefits from superior technology and is therefore the winner hands down in a head to head fight. Of course, the Corsair pilot may have full control of his aircraft via cables, but the F15 pilot has computerized fly-by-wire technology that allows him to dominate the air. When it comes to winning, you take every advantage you can get!!
Now, with that said, I do LOVE to have full control of my vehicles, especially when I'm driving with spirit.... LOL! But I'll also take advantage of technology to make me a better driver!!
But the ZL1 doesn't make you a better driver unless you are turning the technology off, it just makes you LOOK like a better driver... It's just like comparing a Viper to a GT-R you might be able to pull more consistent times with the GT-R but the Viper requires you to actually be a better driver to get good times... Just saying
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:57 AM   #978
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I love how you're all the sudden not allowed to talk about a certain car just because you don't own one. For you losers that are saying that, I say you shouldn't be allowed in either unless you've actually ran you're ZL1 at the track. Most of you could only offer up expertise of how it looks in your garage or waxing techniques. You
make yourselfs look like snobs by making stupid comments like that.

Back on topic, I think what the mag and all the current test have proven so far is that for an everyday car the ZL1 is the better car. For a balls to the wall all out scare the crap out of you hot rod the gt500 is the clear winner. Which to me comes down to what type of person you are.
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:04 AM   #979
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Very cool (and refreshing) to see/read two level headed gearheads talk car's, and taking them out on the track for a little H2H fun.......congrat's to both of you.
Agreed....

This is the difference between people who actually walk the walk vs the ones who just talk. My hats off to both gents, I'm sure it's gonna be a blast!
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:52 AM   #980
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lol are we really going to act like a tune that netted 30rwhp isn't a huge change from stock??
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:09 AM   #981
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That the ZL1 could come that close on this particular track with the HP and weight advantage the GT500 has is amazing. It's like the GT500 running the same course against a ZR1 where the Z enjoys advantages of weight, tires, etc. The GT500 is supposed to win unless you discount the forces of science. There will be courses where the GT500 won't come close. I believe the 73 corners at Nurburgring will certainly be one of those courses.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:14 AM   #982
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lol are we really going to act like a tune that netted 30rwhp isn't a huge change from stock??
Either both cars should be tuned, or neither car tuned.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:21 AM   #983
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Originally Posted by ParisTNDude View Post
That the ZL1 could come that close on this particular track with the HP and weight advantage the GT500 has is amazing. It's like the GT500 running the same course against a ZR1 where the Z enjoys advantages of weight, tires, etc. The GT500 is supposed to win unless you discount the forces of science. There will be courses where the GT500 won't come close. I believe the 73 corners at Nurburgring will certainly be one of those courses.
As mentioned in other threads....you can turn that around to something like this...."the fact that a GT500 could run slightly faster times on this particular track with the archaic SRA, much less sophisticated suspension, and a poor F/R weight distribution is amazing...."

And please...not knocking either car...they both have their goods and bads.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:25 AM   #984
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But then if they aren't stock, what is even the point? What is the cap on modifications?
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:36 AM   #985
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Great Stuff here...
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2 View Post
Thanks to Erik and Van, not only is this the best thread ever, in any forum I belong to but easily the most anticipated track event of the year. I literally checked my calendar to see if I could attend in person. I can't.

My respect and admiration to both of you. Have fun!
Thanks

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Agreed....

This is the difference between people who actually walk the walk vs the ones who just talk. My hats off to both gents, I'm sure it's gonna be a blast!
Thanks. It should be fun.

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Originally Posted by KKreme15 View Post
lol are we really going to act like a tune that netted 30rwhp isn't a huge change from stock??
I'm being open, upfront and honest. I can change the car to completely stock in 15 minutes. Thus the reason why I raised the question with Erik. I would suspect someone like myself in the performance parts and tuning business might have done some performance modifications to his ZL1 so let's try and level the playing field.

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Either both cars should be tuned, or neither car tuned.
Erik and I will decide the parameters of the testing. If he's able to be bone stock, I'll go bone stock.

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Originally Posted by KKreme15 View Post
But then if they aren't stock, what is even the point? What is the cap on modifications?
Erik and I will decide the parameters. If we go out with tunes then we go out with tunes. If we go out stock, then we go out stock or perhaps we'll do both!!

Thanks for the suggestions fellas we're on the same page and I'm waiting for Erik to provide his input on where his vehicle currently stands.

Van
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:11 AM   #986
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Yes but there is mechanical engineering, and computer engineering. There are some suspension kits (eg. Griggs Racing) for the Mustangs that make them out-corner Ferraris (literally), but have too much NVH for most people's tastes who will mostly drive on the street. I respect mechanical improvements, but not computerized ones.
I get this as well, but I am an electrical engineer by trade...so I definitely respect programming. Any type of engineering be it mechanical or electrical (or as in most real-world control systems electromechanical) requires tons of time and effort to produce anything worthwhile so I respect any improvements made regardless of the source. Don't get me wrong, after I get mine broken in things will start being turned off in the right situations, I driver skill above all. Computers are meant to aid, not outright replace, good drivers. After all, you can't fix stupid.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:25 AM   #987
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Originally Posted by Van@RevanRacing View Post
Thanks.



Thanks



Thanks. It should be fun.



I'm being open, upfront and honest. I can change the car to completely stock in 15 minutes. Thus the reason why I raised the question with Erik. I would suspect someone like myself in the performance parts and tuning business might have done some performance modifications to his ZL1 so let's try and level the playing field.



Erik and I will decide the parameters of the testing. If he's able to be bone stock, I'll go bone stock.



Erik and I will decide the parameters. If we go out with tunes then we go out with tunes. If we go out stock, then we go out stock or perhaps we'll do both!!

Thanks for the suggestions fellas we're on the same page and I'm waiting for Erik to provide his input on where his vehicle currently stands.

Van

Tune or no tune, in either case both are being upfront and this will still be a real world test. And regardless of the outcome someone on the C5 or SVT site will claim an issue, and on another given day the results may not be repeated. But who cares, this is what these cars are for, going up against each other and celebrating with some fun ribbing and beer afterwords. Many her could learn from the approach the guys are taking and the camaraderie they are sharing.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:32 AM   #988
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I sent an email to Henry and I've got clearance from the Mrs. to head down so I'll let you know what I find out.

Van
That was a smart move on your part...

I have been thinking although what you guys are doing won't settle which car is actually better, it will be a real world test to what owners will be faced with when competeing against each other. I hope everything goes well and you both are safe.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:33 AM   #989
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Because it was A lap. They admit you can run A fast lap in the GT500, but you can consistently run fast laps in he ZL1. And that was one course. Other courses will be different results. I would like to see all of the hot lap times for both cars. I would bet the ZL1 was faster more often than the GT500. Or was it posted and I missed it?
There is a slight problem with their consistency argument.

The problem is they didn't show any proof of consistency. They published two laps times, one for the GT500 and one for the ZL1. You would think if they were going to mention how you can consistently run fast laps in the ZL1 they would at least show it.

As it reads, all they did was name a winner based on an assumption.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:41 AM   #990
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Why not do a head to head lap run of each car on the 'Burg? Not for anything, the Ford's performance is amazing, given its less sofisticated chassis. The GT500 will definitely be hard to ignore in the match ups that will follow.
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:27 AM   #991
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Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
I love how you're all the sudden not allowed to talk about a certain car just because you don't own one. For you losers that are saying that, I say you shouldn't be allowed in either unless you've actually ran you're ZL1 at the track. Most of you could only offer up expertise of how it looks in your garage or waxing techniques. You
make yourselfs look like snobs by making stupid comments like that.

Back on topic, I think what the mag and all the current test have proven so far is that for an everyday car the ZL1 is the better car. For a balls to the wall all out scare the crap out of you hot rod the gt500 is the clear winner. Which to me comes down to what type of person you are.
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May not feel the difference, but you can watch the other guy go by you! Football is a game of inches, muscle cars are a game of seconds...
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:37 AM   #992
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GoPro footage in this right guys?
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May not feel the difference, but you can watch the other guy go by you! Football is a game of inches, muscle cars are a game of seconds...
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:45 AM   #993
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Did anybody actually think that even after someone did take both cars to the same track on the same day (which many people were waiting for) and posted the results would settle ANYTHING for ANYBODY?

The debate continues.
As usual.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:46 AM   #994
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Tune or no tune, in either case both are being upfront and this will still be a real world test. And regardless of the outcome someone on the C5 or SVT site will claim an issue, and on another given day the results may not be repeated. But who cares, this is what these cars are for, going up against each other and celebrating with some fun ribbing and beer afterwords. Many her could learn from the approach the guys are taking and the camaraderie they are sharing.


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Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
That was a smart move on your part...

I have been thinking although what you guys are doing won't settle which car is actually better, it will be a real world test to what owners will be faced with when competeing against each other. I hope everything goes well and you both are safe.
Thank you.

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GoPro footage in this right guys?
Absolutely!

Erik must be stuck under a car or something. I haven't heard from him as of yet. Soon I'm sure.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:08 AM   #995
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If only performance oriented car guys are on this thread, it would have been settled long ago.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:19 PM   #996
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GT500......Who cares anyway? Its a Ford. Last time I looked this is a CAMARO site and a ZL1 forum. Who gives a mouses behind about what the GT500 does and doesn't do.

Most of the people commenting don't even own a ZL1 or a GT500, so unless you own one or the other, no-one is interested in your opinion anyway.

Mods this is another thread to ditch to the useless Ford mega whiner thread.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:31 PM   #997
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Anyone who races either of these cars competitively has more money than I would know what to do with.
And less sense. I track my car for fun, if I was serious about it I wouldn't select a Mustang or Camaro.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:26 PM   #998
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When is old randy gonna test these 2 cars out to see which ones faster? I mean he did the boss vs the zl1 test right? How bout we have that girl thats done like 50000 laps of the ring test both cars around there? Just saying. Or we could keep loving our camaros and respecting the stuff ford is doing. Nah that would be too easy! I promise you the ford can do one thing my camaro can't...thats fit in my garage! Fing camaro is too wide in the rear!
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:32 PM   #999
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Originally Posted by A-little-perspective View Post
There is a slight problem with their consistency argument.

The problem is they didn't show any proof of consistency. They published two laps times, one for the GT500 and one for the ZL1. You would think if they were going to mention how you can consistently run fast laps in the ZL1 they would at least show it.

As it reads, all they did was name a winner based on an assumption.
Don't you think you could do that after having seat time in both cars ?
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:40 PM   #1000
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Don't you think you could do that after having seat time in both cars ?
Then times mean absolutely nothing.
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May not feel the difference, but you can watch the other guy go by you! Football is a game of inches, muscle cars are a game of seconds...
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