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Cosmetic Maintenance: Washing, Waxing, Detailing, Bodywork, Protection Anything related to keeping your Camaro clean and in good cosmetic condition.

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Old 06-19-2012, 11:48 PM   #1
209camaross
 
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Scratched my car more when i polished it why????

So my new ss was starting to get some light scratches from washing it so i bought a new orbital polisher from turtle wax and turtle wax polish. I started polishing it right after i washed it. I did the hood only and i scratched it even more. You could see the circles from the orbital but you could see it only on direct sun light... what do i do to take it off??? Would Scratch X work??
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:51 PM   #2
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How are you washing the car?
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:51 PM   #3
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Step away from scratch x and the 17$ polisher
Start again here: http://www.adamspolishes.com
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:54 PM   #4
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Ah an orbital. I will never use any power tools to ever finish polish. Always hand
And never ever do circles at all.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:57 PM   #5
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I use the two bucket method with grit guards. Microfiber mitt and sheep skin towel to dry it
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christianmotox View Post
Step away from scratch x and the 17$ polishers
Start again here: http://www.adamspolishes.com
What products would you recommend from this website to take off the swirls??
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:06 AM   #7
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I was just about to start a thread on this same topic. Had my car buffed and now I see the same swirl marks your talking about! It looks terrible in direct sunlight. I told the shop that did it that i was bringing it back to em thursday but what should I expect them to do about it? I definitely don't want em anywhere near my car with a buffer ever again! Does anyone know what can be done? Is asking for a whole new paint job out if the question because thats what I'm leaning towards....
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:35 AM   #8
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I was just about to start a thread on this same topic. Had my car buffed and now I see the same swirl marks your talking about! It looks terrible in direct sunlight. I told the shop that did it that i was bringing it back to em thursday but what should I expect them to do about it? I definitely don't want em anywhere near my car with a buffer ever again! Does anyone know what can be done? Is asking for a whole new paint job out if the question because thats what I'm leaning towards....
That's absolutely out of the question. Any detailer will be able to fix that with a proper polishing. Ask them for your money back and go somewhere else.

As for the OP, you'll need a stronger machine. The gold standard is the Porter Cable 7424xp. Start there.

Then you'll need some pads and polishes. I'm on my phone now but shoot me a pm and we can get you taken care of and on the right track next time I get on the computer. Don't worry, it's all fixable!



Give it a little tappy tap
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:35 AM   #9
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That's absolutely out of the question. Any detailer will be able to fix that with a proper polishing. Ask them for your money back and go somewhere else.
It was an insurance job so I didnt have to pay them, they painted my door and polished the rest of the car to match the freshly painted door. Thanks for the response, guess i was just in "catastrophe mode" from seeing my paint swirled up. Hopefully they'll get it right this time.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:06 AM   #10
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What products would you recommend from this website to take off the swirls??

I would start with this. It's a 3 step process and you can watch the video for instructions.

Good luck

http://www.adamspolishes.com/p-733-a...isher-kit.aspx
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:48 AM   #11
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My dealer did that to my car, I can see the swirl marks in the sunlight at a low angle, thanks for posting the Admas info.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 209camaross View Post
So my new ss was starting to get some light scratches from washing it so i bought a new orbital polisher from turtle wax and turtle wax polish. I started polishing it right after i washed it. I did the hood only and i scratched it even more. You could see the circles from the orbital but you could see it only on direct sun light... what do i do to take it off??? Would Scratch X work??
The problem could be bad materials (likely) as well as bad technique (likely).

Here is a expert from this thread : The Autopia Institute What Are Paint Defects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autopia-CarCare.com
When a car is first painted the top coat is relatively smooth and reflects maximum light. Over time abrasion and environmental conditions transform the once smooth, level surface into a proverbial mountain range of varying textures that reduce the ultimate reflectivity of the paint. These changes in the surface are known as Paint Defects This occurs because changes in the angle of the paint, whether large or microscopic deflect light instead of reflect it evenly. Paint Defects are characterized by the by both the depth which they penetrate the surface, as well as the frequency and pattern which they occur.





Marring

Marring is often a term often used to frequently occurring, shallow paint defects.

Swirl Mark Marring- Swirl Mark marring is likely the most common type of defect. It is extremely shallow in depth and is very frequent in occurrence. Most swirl mark marring is wash induced and caused by incorrect washing and drying techniques. Because these paint defects are so easy to get and thus occur so frequently, they forum a circle pattern of scratches that reflect outwards from a central light source giving this marring it’s name sake: Swirl Marks or Spider Webbing.

Random Deep Marring is often wash induced but with a greater degree of force implicating more damage to the paint’s surface. A piece of grit stuck in a wash mitt or drying towel can cause isolated spots of deep marring; Washing a car with a shop brush or using an automated car wash can cause frequent spots of deep marring. Incorrect sanding of the vehicle’s paint can cause very deep marring also known as sanding tracers. Random Deep Marring occurs in different patterns and frequency, but is characterized by the depth of damage: Deep enough to see, but not deep enough to feel. In frequent deep marring is often referred to as Random Isolated Deeper Scratching or RIDS.

Scratching

Scratches are paint defects where a significant amount of paint has been removed and the defect is not only visible but can be felt to the touch. In general scratching/deep scratching penetrates too deeply into the paint’s surface to be completely removed, although the appearance may be lessened.

Etching

An etching is a type of paint defect that can very in depth and frequency, but creates a unique pattern dependent on how it is created. Etching is caused by chemical reaction on that paint’s surface that eats dissolves the surface at a fairly consistent rate of a relatively large area, creating depressions on the surface that appear like empty swimming pools. The most common forms of etching are from acid rain, acidic insect remains and bird bombs, and from the residual minerals found in water.

Machine Created Polish Marks

Holograms are extremely consistent, extremely shallow frequently occurring paint defects created by the machine polishing of paint. These defects are so frequent and shallow that they reflect light in their own unique pattern, creating a three dimensional appearance in the paint, hence the name hologramming. Hologramming is must often created by a high speed rotary polisher, allow dual action polishers can create a similar pattern if the pad is rotating fast enough. The pattern of ultra fine marks created by dual action polishers is often more random in nature and creates a pattern known as micro-marring or micro haze.

Paint Defect Removal

To remove a paint defect itself is impossible cause a paint defect is area where the paint has already been removed. To remove a paint defect means that all of the surrounding paint above the deepest part of the defect needs to be removed in order to create a more level surface. This new surface will be smooth and reflect maximum light. Because new cars are frequently damaged at the dealership, often this new fresh, smooth surface will improve the appearance of new vehicles dramatically as well.

The diagram below illustrates the difference between paint with paint defects and what removing them means.



Methods for Paint Defect Removal

By hand: Modern clear coats are much harder then their older, single stage counter parts. However modern technology increases have made it more possible to remove paint defects by hand. Keep in mind that the polishes used to remove paint evenly require a lot of work and this is the slowest method possible.

By machine: With the rise in popularity of Dual Action polishers, many enthusiast have taken to machine polishing their cars themselves. Machine polishing with a Dual Action is very safe and affords great results with a great margin of safety. Some enthusiasts and many professionals use a Rotary Polisher to polish paint. These powerful machines are capable of quickly removing the deepest marring marks but can also damage paint in the hands of an inexperienced user.

Removing Swirl Mark Marring: Swirl Mark Marring is very shallow by definition and usually requires only a light polishing step with a machine. Some harder paints may require a moderate polishing step followed by a finer polishing step for complete removal. These marks can often be removed by hand polishing.

Removing Random Deep Marring: Random Deep Marring can be the most frustrating paint defect to work with and usually requires several moderate to aggressive polishing steps for complete removal. Random Deep Marring is often the most difficult defect to diagnose with a visual inspection as it can occur frequently enough to look like typical Swirl Mark Marring. This is the case with vehicles that have been frequently washed with shop brushes, dirty rags, and dried with dirty towels or have been scrubbed clean at a drive thru car wash.

If these defects resemble typical swirl marks because of the frequency in which they occur they are often called Deep Swirls or Bad Swirls, and the detailer or enthusiastic has a long day a head of him.

If the Random Deep Marring occurs sporadically, it may not even be noticeable until the swirl marks have been removed. After polishing a couple of steps, the surface will show a dramatic improvement in gloss but deeper marks will remain visible, although infrequent. This pattern of occurring Random Deep Marring is also known as Random Isolated Deeper Scratching. The method of correction is the same regardless of the frequency and dependent on the depth.

Extreme cases of Random Deep Marring may require heavy compound polishing or wet sanding for complete removal.

Removing Scratching/Deep Scratching: Scratches can often be felt with your finger nail on the paint’s surface. This indicates that the defect has a significant amount of penetration and removal may not be completely possible or may require that too much paint is removed for its removal.

For scratching it is best to polish the edges of the scratch in order to blend the sharp edges and reduce the visibility of the scratch. This can be accomplished by hand or machine.

Removing Etching: Etching, because of the width of the defect, is difficult to remove. Complete removal often requires wet sanding the surface flat with a stiff backing plate because of a polishing pad’s tendency to travel into the defect itself. Deep etching often requires experience or a professional for removal.

Removing Buff Marks/Hologramming: Buffer marks are often caused by using too aggressive of a polish or pad as the last step in machine polishing, or using incorrect technique. Most buffer marks are extremely shallow and can be removed in a manner similar to removing swirl marks, requiring a finer polish and/or pad.
So the paint defects you are seeing are "buffer marks" which are ultra fine swirl marks caused by the abrasive nature of the polish running over the paint. Many companies offer high quality solutions to these problems. One of my favorite, because of it's ease-of-use is from a company called Optimum Polymer Technologies.

Here is the copy of this thread: Leave Swirls in the Past with OPT Advanced Polishing System

Quote:
Leave swirls in the past with the latest in polishing technology!



Optimum Polymer Technologies is a small company that has been making big waves in the detailing industry since 2001. Based out of Memphis, Tennessee, Optimum Polymer Technologies was founded by Dr. David Ghodoussi, the former paint polymer chemist for PPG. Optimum Polymer Technologies' motto is “Accelerate Into The Future” and the continuous advancements Optimum puts into each new have kept to that statement.

Optimum new's polishing system, the Optimum Hyper Micro System, combines several cutting technologies to make your machine polishing results easier while producing perfect results. The Optimum Hyper Micro System combines several new and cutting edge technologies to accelerate your polishing into the future.

Advancements:

Polishes utilize spray technology to deliver an uniform amount of polish to the pad
Latest in microfiber pad technology for dual-action and rotary style buffers
Compound uses the latest in refined aluminum oxide “non-diminishing abrasives”
Polish uses the latest in refined aluminum oxide “diminishing abrasives”


The results of these technologies is a two step paint correction system that gives the dual-action polisher almost as much paint polishing power as a rotary polisher, while creating a flawless result, even on soft black finishes.


The Optimum Polymer Technologies Hyper Micro System includes Optimum Hyper Compound Spray, Optimum Hyper Polish Spray, Optimum Microfiber Compounding Pad, and the Optimum Microfiber Polishing Pad.




The Test Panel:

This trunk lid has been sprayed with extremely soft base coat / clear coat in black. This allows us to test products to the extreme an analyze their performance accurately. I created swirl marks in the paint by rubbing a stiff bristled brush over the finish. The result was deeper swirl marks that are far worse then what you would find on your typical daily driver (unless you have been washing your car with a stiff brush!).

The marks were so deep that they were easily visible under fluorescent lighting.




Igniting the paint with a Brinkmann Swirl Finder light showed how truly bad it was.



Step One: Optimum Hyper Compound Spray & Optimum Microfiber Compounding Pad



Optimum Hyper Compound Spray is a unique spray on formula originally designed for OEM (factory) application to provide fast repair of paint defects while minimizing paint product waste. This cutting edge Compound uses several advancements in paint polishing technologies, including a very unique abrasive that maintains an even amount of cutting power through out the polishing cycle. This gives Optimum Hyper Compound Spray the ability to remove paint defects quickly, even when used with a dual-action polisher, while maintaining a high a high gloss finish that only requires minimal final polishing for a flawless finish.

The Optimum Microfiber Compounding Pad uses the latest technologies that utilizes the orbital action of a DA polisher to give it cutting power that is near rotary level while maintaining the safety and ease-of-use that dual action polisher users have come to expect. The combination of these two products gives the user a safe way to correct serious paint defects.

Start by centering the Optimum Microfiber Compounding Pad on the backing plate. For this test I am using the Porter Cable 7424 XP random orbital polisher.




Apply Optimum Hyper Compound Spray Polish to the pad by holding it approximately 6 inches away and squeezing the trigger quickly. For fresh, dry pads, use two sprays. Once the pad is primed, use only one spray for an additional section.




The compound is evenly dispersed onto the pad's surface.




The same principals of machine polishing apply to using this cutting edge system. Drape the cord over your shoulder and hold the machine comfortably. Work a section at a time, approximately 2' x 2'. If you need more cutting power you can shrink the work section down. Polish on speed 5 or 6, using firm pressure (enough to slow the rotation of the towel but not enough to stall it completely) and move your arms in over lapping passes.

Here is the one exception, with most polishes and compounds, you work until the polish “break's down.” In the case of Optimum Hyper Compound, you work until the defects are the removed. That is because the advanced “non-diminishing abrasives” will continue to work as long as they are applied.


Work a 2' x 2' section with firm pressure on speed 5 or 6, with slow arm speed and firm pressure in overlapping passes.



Optimum Hyper Compound has an incredibly long work time, work until you can no longer see defects or the compound becomes clear.






Buff of the residue with a soft microfiber towel, such as a Supreme 530. Hyper Com pond buffs off with incredible ease.




Microfiber Polishing Pad's Quick Tip: As you polish with any microfiber pad the nap will become flat and pressed down. This changes the dynamic of the pad and significantly reduces cutting ability. To keep the pads clean (for the best finish) and keep them fluffed (for the best cut) it is important to clean your pads frequently. The best way to clean them is to blow them clean with an air squirter attached to an air compressor. If you don't have access to this, use a nylon bristled pad brush.

The fibers have become matted down.




Run the machine while pressing a nylon pad conditioning brush into the nap.




The pad is now fluffed and clean and great for additional product (and the next section).




One of the benefits of both the advanced Microfiber pads and the Hyper Compound is both leave a very nice finish (for a compound). There is very faint haze in the paint at this point (which is incredible considering how soft the paint on the test panel is).

Here is the before side...



After compounding (not final polishing)...




And a 50/50 split shot....





Step Two: Optimum Hyper Polish Spray & Optimum Microfiber Polishing Pad



Optimum Hyper Polish Spray is a unique spray application polish that uses ultra refined diminishing abrasives to burnish the paint to a high-gloss shine. Just like all Optimum polishes, Optimum Hyper Polish is extremely easy to use and has a long working time with no dusting or sling issues. Its spray application minimizes the chance of overloading or gumming up the pad, and it provides an even application. Optimum Hyper Polish easily wipes off with a damp microfiber towel, whether you use it in the sun or shade, to achieve outstanding results.

The Optimum Microfiber Polishing Pad uses the latest technologies that utilize the orbital action of a DA polisher to give it good polishing power while maintaining the safety and ease-of-use that dual action polisher users have come to expect. The combination of these two products gives the user a safe way quickly and easily remove light defects and create a stunning, flawless finish.

Start by centering the Microfiber Polishing Pad to the backing plate of your DA polisher. Mist Optimum Hyper Polish Spray onto the Optimum Microfiber Polishing Pad in the same fashion you did with the compound. Use two sprays to prime a pad for initial use and one spray per section after that.




The same principals of machine polishing apply to using this cutting edge system. Drape the cord over your shoulder and hold the machine comfortably. Work a section at a time, approximately 2' x 2'. If you need more cutting power you can shrink the work section down. Polish on speed 5 or 6, using firm pressure (enough to slow the rotation of the towel but not enough to stall it completely) and move your arms in over lapping passes.

Optimum Hyper Polish Spray uses traditional like abrasives that do break down, so continuing working until the polish appears to 'clear' on the paint surface. At this point reduce to speed 4 and continue working for an additional pass maintaining firm pressure. Then buff away residue to reveal a high-gloss, swirl-free shine.




Optimum Hyper Spray Polish uses a diminishing abrasive that will achieve best results when broken down. Here is the film on the paint when it is fresh.




Work in smooth, overlapping passes, until the polish breaks down (becomes clear).




At this point, with the polish nearly translucent, the polish is ready to be removed with a soft microfiber cloth. That's it, your done. Having a flawless finish can be that easy!




Always inspect your work as you go. Here I am looking at the paint with a Brinkmann Swirl Finder light.




Here is the paint finish under the swirl finder light.




Remember how pad it was before, even when viewed in standard garage fluorescent lighting? Here is the polished finish now.




This is a good time to remove the masking tape in order to compare the polished and unpolished sides directly. Always remove the tape at a sharp angle to the body to avoid lifting it.



Under the standard fluorescent lighting...




With the Brinkmann Swirl Finder light...




The true test of paint is how it looks in the direct sunlight. Luckily it was sunny day in Florida, so I pulled the panel outside to inspect.

In the sun the finish was FLAWLESS!




Here is the unpolished side.




Another direct sun picture of the hood to show the quality of finish.




A 50/50 split shot.




One more pair of polished vs. unpolished pictures.






Conclusion:

Optimum Polymer Technologies continues to “Accelerate Into The Future” by combining these advanced technologies with a novel application. The result is a polishing system that gives dual-action polishers the ability to remove defects like a professional wielding a rotary tool. Best of all, the considerable safety margin of a DA polisher is maintained.

While most polishing systems require 3 (or more) steps to remove heavy defects from the paint, Optimum is more than capable of doing the same in two steps, quickly. Whether you are professional detailer or a novice enthusiast, Optimum has a polishing solution that will save you time, increase your results, and maintain safe polishing.
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