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Old 06-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #1
FastRaceCars
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2010 Camaro 1SS LS3 M6 won't spin tires

Currently, I have a RotoFab CAI, skipshift-eliminator, Magnaflow Axle-Back Competition (aka muffler delete), 160 thermostat, and self-tuned with HPTuners. Car is 2010 Camaro 1SS with 6-speed manual. Even before any of the mods, I always felt like the car was a little weak for 420+ HP, but at the same time, it does seem to get up and go pretty well, so I had assumed it was normal for a 3800lb car.

I'm not an expert tuner, but I did read a bunch on several forums and hptuners website. I did some basic changes like improving PE rate, delay, and AFRs. Experimented with high octane table ignition timing advance. What I discovered is that I can't go much over 20 degrees at WOT above 4000 RPM without "knock retard" pulling a little timing back out. As a drag racer running small block chevy engines, we always run around 38-40 degrees, so 20 degrees on a 11:1 motor seems ridiculously low to me. In fact, even with the factory tune settings, I see the knock retard sometimes kicking in a degree or so. That being said, I had tried adding fuel in those areas to confirm it was false knock. (BTW, I run 93/94 octane and tried adding AMSOIL Octane Boost as well). At this point, I'm pretty convinced it is false knock and the knock sensors are too sensitive. I've also increased the knock decay rate so that when the knock stops, the timing will climb back up a little quicker.

I can't remember at the moment if I disabled the engine torque management completely or not, but this car will barely break traction in 1st gear on dry roads with or without traction control/stability control. Obviously, I can drop the clutch at 3500+ rpm and make it spin, but after reading a bunch on the forum today, it seems I should be able to simply roll into the throttle in 1st gear and spin pretty easily. Even my old 1996 V6 Camaro would almost do that.

I was reading about the "fuse pull" trick today, but since I have HPTuners, I'm not sure if this still applies since I can reflash the computer at will. It does seem to have the rough idle behavior that others mentioned. My fuel economy averages 18MPG, which is mostly 20-50mph driving. On highway, I still only see about 21-22.

Anyone have any thoughts? I tried to read the forum all day, but I'm sure I've missed some valuable threads/posts.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:15 PM   #2
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Big 20" rims with sticky tires won't really let you roast the tires from a roll. On a side note the knock sensors are very sensitive but they are there for good reason. Just make sure you take out the torque management and turn of the nanny controls. You've got the right idea turning back the knock decay....shouldn't have to try and fuse pull. If you really wanna light em up easy toss a Whipple on it. LOL
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:54 PM   #3
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If you decide to stay N/A, You'll want rear end gears...4.11 or 4.33...This car's gear ratio is too high (3.45 stock) and hinders low end torque terribly.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:04 PM   #4
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Well....I checked my tune a little bit ago, and disabled "Power Hop" under the TCS settings thinking maybe this was the culprit. I had in fact already maxxed out the EngineTorque Management settings. I also compared my high octane timing table to the factory tune, and I actually had to remove 1-3 degrees of timing at WOT above 4400 RPM to prevent any knock retard from occuring. I currently have the AFR for PE mode leaned out from the factory tune, because it was like 11:1 AFR. It is now around 12.2:1-12.5:1 and kicks in above 2500 RPM. I've seen a lot of guys on here and hptuners say that 13:1 makes the most power, but I wanted to stay a little richer until I was 100% certain about the knock retard issue.

I agree those p-zero's are some sticky tires and 20" blades are a little harder to turn over, but everyone else on the forum claims to be able to lay down rubber without dropping the clutch. The gears are pretty tall for a heavy sports car...should have shipped from the factory with 3.73 in any SS trim.

Nonetheless...maybe I have my expectations too high after reading some of the other posts. Any other ideas are still appreciated. I'm also attaching my torque management settings screenshot.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:25 PM   #5
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You say with or without traction control. The whole point of it is to not let you lose traction . Hold the button down and turn all the nannies off or of course you'll be disappointed. Headers had me break loose faster but not the intake.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:39 PM   #6
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My gxp has factory 3.7s from the factory and although I agree the SS should too but its no better in the spin department.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:33 PM   #7
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my V6 A6 was able to spin 275/40 20's wrapped in nitto invo's without hesitation or TC off. haven't really "tried" to do it now that im in a V8, but it happened the other night without hesitation on the P-zero's. just had my tune done via HPT and was able to get about 21-23* of timing...not much more and saw 0 knock. the stock tune was pulling 1 degree on the high end before the tune and after 0 (without touching knock sensors).
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:27 AM   #8
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Its you tune....hombreito.

I have a "less powerful" L99 tuned and with Traction control on it'll spin the tires in first and second now......its like there's a beast within.

Tqmgmt will retard your timing and your car will feel retarded as well.

I turned most of it off.....but folded some back in under part throttle cuz it was snapping my head off!Whoa!

But you have a 6sp.....so its all about timing.

From your screen print, Disable Tqmgmt via Spark and fuel cut and get ready for second gear action.

Tampa tuning can provide a good HP baseline and give pretty good feedback on the data logs......saves booqoo time.....the config file on my car is flipping 5Meg......nobody can learn that in a vaccuum.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:57 AM   #9
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With those mods yes rolling down the street and punching the gas should result in some tire spin without a clutch dump, add a cam and first gear is useless on the street!
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad70supreme View Post
With those mods yes rolling down the street and punching the gas should result in some tire spin without a clutch dump, add a cam and first gear is useless on the street!

It's funny how people want to spin their tires (I get it all the time from stock L99 owners).
Then once they get a little more modded, they'll be buying new wheels and drag radials to control excessive wheel spin on the street.

If your spinning, you aint winning.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:37 PM   #11
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Its not about WANTING to spin the tires, its a concern if he is down some power! If everyone you knew with the same car as yours can smoke the tires at will... and your hooks, its not because your suspension and tires are any better if are all running the same stuff. I would wonder as well!
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:52 PM   #12
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spinning tires depends alot on the road you r on and the pavement too! around here, sometimes it get loose easy, others not so much...go to vegas - i have no idea whats up with their pavement, but you need to be paying attention because its everywhere but straight when you get into it.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:06 PM   #13
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Just talked to a buddy at work that has a m6 ss and his is the same as my gxp. Hooks up and doesn't spin and it has a tune and muffler delete.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:26 PM   #14
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Did you turn off stabillitrac? Hold tc button for 8 seconds
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