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Old 12-18-2007, 11:29 PM   #1
Scotsman
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35 MPG CAFE std. almost law

End of domestic RWD renaissance???

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With a resounding 314-100 majority, the House of Representatives has passed sweeping changes to the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards that govern auto fuel economy.

With approval already having come from the Senate, the bill heads to the White House tomorrow, where the Associated Press reports that the President will sign it into law.

The epic bill calls for fleet average fuel economy among passenger cars, small trucks and SUVs to rise to 35 miles per gallon by 2022. It has been 32 years since the CAFE standards for cars have changed; light-truck standards were recently raised by the Bush Administration.

The bill puts a large burden on the auto industry to change its offerings and to build more fuel-efficient vehicles, but it also lays out changes to other environmental standards that might also save fuel. The bill mandates an increase in the use of ethanol to 36 billion gallons by 2022, a figure six times higher than today. And, the AP adds, energy efficiency standards for lighting, appliances, and federal buildings would be tightened.

Detroit's automakers have already chimed in on the new fuel-economy regulations.

In a statement, GM CEO Rick Wagoner said, "GM commends the Congress and President for passage of an energy bill. The new fuel economy standards within the bill set a tough, national target that GM will strive to meet. We will focus our engineering and technical resources to attain these standards and we remain hard at work applying the innovation and developing the advanced technologies that will power tomorrow's cars and trucks."

Bob Nardelli, CEO of Chrysler LLC, said something strikingly similar: "We commend the Congress for passing an energy bill today and we fully support it being signed into law. Chrysler is committed to meeting the fuel economy standards of the bill - and doing our part to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and our country's reliance on foreign oil. We continue to devote significant resources to develop quality, fuel efficient products that our customers expect. This year alone, we offer six vehicles that get 28 miles per gallon or better, and more are on the way."

Automakers had little choice but to go along with the legislation. With the price of oil from the Middle East hovering near $90 per barrel and the U.S. dollar taking a beating on global markets, the fuel economy standards had become linked to national security.

While Detroit's responses sounded canned, environmental groups clearly cheered the passage of the bill, a historic defeat for the auto industry's powerful Washington lobby. Carl Pope, Sierra Club Executive Director, said the bill and CAFE changes signaled a new direction: "This bill is a clean break with the failed energy policies of the past and puts us on the path toward a cleaner, greener energy future."

Phyllis Cuttino, director of the Pew Charitable Trusts Campaign for Fuel Efficiency, added that the bill resolves a longstanding debate in the U.S. about fuel economy and tied it to national security, a wedge issue that's become effective with more Republicans, 95 of whom joined Democrats in voting for the bill in the House today. "Americans demanded action on energy security and global warming and Congress responded," Cuttino said. "This new fuel efficiency standard shows how powerful these issues have become -- and they're not going away."

The final bill was not as severe as recent versions have been. House leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) had tried to insert provisions that would revoke tax breaks for oil companies totaling more than $13 billion but those were blocked from the final bill.

While Democratic leadership in Washington suggested the changes to meet new CAFE standards could save drivers $700 to $1000 a year in fuel costs, automakers have long challenged the cost savings notion, pointing out that the technology required to meet the new regulations could easily exceed $1000 per car.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...73.A13762.html
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:02 AM   #2
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wow..
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:26 AM   #3
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thats redicurous.....

has anyone seen the research that correlates cafe standards going up and automobile deaths per capita increasing? because the engines arent helping just hte cars are getting lighter....

also gas is going to increase in price because oil companies are energy companies and they are going to justify it by saying you get more energy so they get more money.

basicly this is a sad commentary on how retarded congress is and how thier trying to do right by the little guy is f'fing us all over
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:31 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by headpunter View Post
also gas is going to increase in price because oil companies are energy companies and they are going to justify it by saying you get more energy so they get more money.
That is so true.. the government could of came up with a better solution than this..
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Old 12-19-2007, 03:12 AM   #5
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BUT.. it still has to happen. 35mpg by 2022? Is the motoring industry that backward that after (what will be) 130 years of automotive R&D we can't get a V8 to put out a reasonable mileage?

Okay, BIG sweeping statement and to be honest, I don't really agree with my own comments - but millions probably do and we have to accept that we're actually in the minority :(

Still, with quad-cams, DOD etc I reckon it easily doable with the clever bods around the world doing their thing!
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:56 AM   #6
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^Well the internal combustion enging IS an outdated design, but yeah you would think they'd get better mileage out of it.

Something similar to this is bound to happen over here soon, which is kind of inorinc seeing as the most popular cars are Volvos and Saabs and many of those are the big heavy station wagons and SUVs that could certainly be considered gas guzzlers.
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:41 AM   #7
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The government doesn't want the average person to be able to afford a car. Atleast that is what they are shooting for. They want to control every aspect of our lives. Like how much energy we consume in our homes. It's not about global warming. Global warming is just a cover up for their true motives. Eventually cars will cost so much, because they are so expensive to produce with the new standards, that most people will not have them. America and China will change places. They will be wealthy, and we will be walking everywhere.
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:55 AM   #8
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Cali's trying to pass a law about exhaust emissions that will go beyond the federal laws on top of this cafe crap. sometimes I hate CA. Most expensive cost of living and hardest laws on cars (90% aftermarket parts are illegal).
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:29 AM   #9
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First off, let me start by saying I'm not so naive as to think that this huge Gov't (size) we have right now is a good thing. Nor do I think they are very bright.

Secondly, as you may/may not see below - I'm am neither Democrat, nor republican - but after this administration, I don't look to kindly on the republicans right now.

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Originally Posted by headpunter View Post
also gas is going to increase in price because oil companies are energy companies and they are going to justify it by saying you get more energy so they get more money.
I too, can see that happening - which is why I think it's a load of crap the Republicans blocked the revoking of the oil company tax breaks. Unfortunately, a certain president, and no doubt many others, have a decent amount of stake in oil. Oil Companies are BAD. And they need to be taken down a notch. Just like Insurance companys, and healthcare companies....

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Originally Posted by willisit View Post
BUT.. it still has to happen. 35mpg by 2022? Is the motoring industry that backward that after (what will be) 130 years of automotive R&D we can't get a V8 to put out a reasonable mileage?

....Still, with quad-cams, DOD etc I reckon it easily doable with the clever bods around the world doing their thing!
Someone said it before; The Internal Combustion Eninge is, by it's nature, an inefficient design. if you really think about it, it is intentionally designed to lose energy potential through heat (cooling system), and only develops power through 25% of it's cycle.

However, 35mpg is NOT as difficult a task to reach, as some may think. Some may be forgetting, or not realizing that 35 mpg is a Corporate Average fuel economy standard; not every vehicle, every engine.

Then you need to realize that, indeed, our vehicles have gotten fatter. But what do you expect when some vehicles offer more comforts than our own homes...I still don't have A/C in my house. And these cars are as safe as anybody could hope for in a car. Airbags - literally - all around you. (you think that doesn't add weight to a vehicle?)

Finally, for GM specifically; no doubt it's going to be a 'difficult' task to reach. but this goal is for 2022. Now, assuming we don't blow up, or incinerate the surface of our planet by then...GM will have over 16 (for sure) Hybrid model vehicles alone - saving gas. Then they have Flex-fuel vehicles. On top of all that, they've got their savior - The Volt. Why do you think they're rushing all this stuff out the door so quickly? A Volt by 2010?!?! Yes. Because it has to be done. Relax on this account - Gm can do it. Here's a list of tech that I know of, (and there's more: you know there's more ) that can/will make this possible:

HCCI
DIG
VVT
AFM
Dual-Mode Hybrid tech.
E85 capability.
Solenoid-controlled valve actuation
Dual-Clutch Transmissions

Maybe not finally. It's not the 70's - I realize that. But did the all the fuel economy stuff then kill off the muscle car, or SUV's? No!! The Camaro/Firebird posted its highest sales that decade.

Okay - so this is 'finallly'. Don't be fooled into believing this is solely about the environment. It's not - maybe a little bit, but not really. This is about our way of life, and the energy demands it has. China, India, and other "third-world" nations, are not third world anymore - at least, they're coming out of it.

The planet cannot support our way of life for that many people. So we need to cap our energy demands. Once the oil starts "running out", do you think those countries with their new cars, are going to bow down to the glorious USA, and say - here, you can take the oil. We'll go back to where we were. NO!! So we need to limit our energy needs - so we can say that (^).

/Rant.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willisit View Post
BUT.. it still has to happen. 35mpg by 2022? Is the motoring industry that backward that after (what will be) 130 years of automotive R&D we can't get a V8 to put out a reasonable mileage?

Okay, BIG sweeping statement and to be honest, I don't really agree with my own comments - but millions probably do and we have to accept that we're actually in the minority :(

Still, with quad-cams, DOD etc I reckon it easily doable with the clever bods around the world doing their thing!
I don't doubt that they can do better on the mileage, but as even Bob Lutz has said, its going to add $5-$7K to car prices.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:34 AM   #11
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the way I see it, like dragoneye said, GM is already putting out the volt. 50 mpg (not counting the electric motor!) on a car puts them ahead of the curve and gives me full confidence that they can't easily get a truck to 35 mpg or at the very least have enough cars close or above it that they will have no trouble meeting these standards.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:39 AM   #12
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oil companies:
they are companies, the repeated bashing by the media doesnt help thier imge at all. Everyone hates a big corporation in this country. when you think about how much capital oil companies take to run and thier overhead expenses, they are asking reasonable prices. They are just like any other company, they are trying to make money. why shouldn't they?why should the government limit thier profit? people dont get into a business to break even. if we would deregulate energy companies it would help reduce costs immensely.

added cost without benefit: Side Curtain airbags, i have friends that are firemen, they despise the side curtain airbag. wanna know why? say to roll your car or it catches fire after your accident, they have a nigh impossible time trying to get you out. they have to have special knives to cut the material and it still takes a long time to do, all while you are bleeding out or burning alive...

about energy consumption:
funny thing is out of america, china, india, and other 3rd world countries are limiting thier consumption? Not a chance.
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Old 12-19-2007, 10:15 AM   #13
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Cali's trying to pass a law about exhaust emissions that will go beyond the federal laws on top of this cafe crap. sometimes I hate CA. Most expensive cost of living and hardest laws on cars (90% aftermarket parts are illegal).
I was in the Navy stationed in lovely San Diego, single with plenty of play money, I had a little chevy half ton...




I still have nightmares about "50 State Legal"

I can't count how many times I was pulled over and asked to provide the certs for all the aftermarket performance parts on my truck. I was amazed at how well the knew the aftermarket products. After the first ticket I learned to keep that information in the truck.

For a state with such a Hot Rod history they sure do make it hard on you guys.

I should have never sold her...
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:38 AM   #14
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I thought all of this was from months ago...which was why GM "shut down" their rear wheel drive plants and put them on hold???

Because even though this was passed, legislation was put into effect that if GM, Ford, and Chrysler couldn't meet the standards, then the gov't could lower the mpg...

Isn't this an old article? All should be fine by now...
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