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Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 06-12-2012, 09:44 PM   #1
bambam72_1999
 
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Where is the RWHP at???

I have a question. I have a Vararam intake, ported TB, lack iceolator, bbk lt headers, corsa catback exhaust and a Trifecta tune and only picked up 21 rwhp over stock? Where is all the power that I should be making with this amount of bolt ons? Can someone please give some insight into why roughly $3500 in bolt ons only picked me up 21 RWHP???
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:06 PM   #2
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We need to know more. Do u have the before and after dynos? What was the temps during the first run versus the one before. What do the gains in the midrange look like?
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:15 AM   #3
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The iceolator alone is good for 20 rwhp & 25-28 rwtq. I would send Vince a log so he can see what is happening. Also, do you have the dyno graph to post? If you have anything but 93 octain in you will see the detonation causing the ECU to pull timing.
i thought the V6 camaros didn't benefit from running 91 or 93 octane? i have been running 87 octane in my car this whole time, after assuming it made no difference. i thought only the SS guys have benefit from 91/93?
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:19 AM   #4
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Um no, we benefit from 93 octane as well. The SS benefits more since it has seperate octane tables for 89 octane and 91/93 octane. For the SS, being on the 89 octane reduces power a lot! I actually beat an SS by .1 this past weekend because he was on the low octane table.

The v6 benefits since it can add more timing. The v6 will actually add timing until it detects knock and then it will back off. Using 93 octane allows the car to add timing and aids it to run a lot better.

Also OP, you have to remember that horsepower numbers don't stack up. If an intake is advertised as 15 hp and headers are advertised as 20 hp you don't get 35 hp from these both. You might end up with something like 20 - 25 hp. You probably should have picked up more than the 20 you did but also remember that things like the tb and the catback exhaust really have little to no gain in hp
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:43 AM   #5
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I posted this answer for you over on bowtie.



I know how you feel. Depending on the dyno, the time of day, weather and a few other star alignment factors getting dyno numbers is tricky. Try not to use it for total new HP over what you had.

Did you dyno bone stock at the same place?

Was the conditions exactly the same when you did both dyno runs, (stock vs. mods)?

Did you go back to the same dyno shop for the mod runs?


HEre is a link to a GREAT article that I have posted many times for people to get an understanding about dynos. Read the article and you will get a good feeling about how dynos are ALL different.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/gene ... o_testing/


Also, I have similar mods, OBX Headers, INJEN CAI, Ported Throttle Body, Black-Iceolator, MRT Axle Back, Magnaflow resonated X pipe, and Trifecta Tune. I did my first set and only set of dyno pulls for a charity event. I was not overly excited about my HP #'s either. 261 However it was a warm, humid day on a portable trailer dyno. I was impressed with the torque numbers thou. 263 with it over 250 from 2500 rpm's to 5000 rpms

I just did a new 0 - 60 run this morning, first time in a long time. Ran my best to date. 5.23 comparred to a previous best of 5.5.

I have made over 100 passes at the track and have them all on a spreadsheet. As a whole adding all my stuff together shows I have made good gains at the track.

Hope this helps a little.

Mike

PS: I have $2400 into all of my investment, including tax, set-up frieght, shipping, handling, welding, dinner for an installer, etc.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:29 AM   #6
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trust me..my friend put his torq app on my car...it said i was doing 196 rwhp at the highest point -_- impossible! lol
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:47 AM   #7
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I have sent 2 sets of datalogs to Vince and he says it is right for the car. The same dyno and it was actually a little cooler the day I did the runs with all the mods. I am running 93 octane, and the 260RWHP was in 4th gear. My dyno guy said I am running 7% lean at cruise and my timing was only running 24 degrees at max. He said both those numbers were off as I was also running EXTREMELY rich. I asked Vince about those things and sent new datalogs along with the dyno sheet, and he said everything was right. I even took it to a second place to have it dyno'd and the same results within 2 RWHP.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:49 AM   #8
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i did one datalog during winter and vince said i was fine -_-
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:13 AM   #9
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This isn't inspiring me to add more mods, especially the tune. Don't want my car running extremely rich. I'd like to see what other cars dyno with similar mods.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:34 AM   #10
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My two cents. I currently have the following mods and how I feel that changed the car.

1. Vararam Cold Air Intake. - The car had a significant more pull and throttle
response as well as a lower exhaust note.

2. Vmax CNC Throttl body &
Vmax Black Isolator. - Rating these two together as They were insalled at the
same time.
The Car had increased low end torq. and pulled even
harder thru the RPM's, Throttle response little if any
Change.

3. Trifecta Tune - Little if no change. This was by far my most
dissapointing mod. It would be different if I had an
Automatic, but for my Manual I would not recomend it.
I do plan on a cam change or a Forced induction
upgrade so I would have been getting the tune then
anyway.

again just my two cents worth on what I experienced.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm251 View Post
This isn't inspiring me to add more mods, especially the tune. Don't want my car running extremely rich. I'd like to see what other cars dyno with similar mods.
The run rich from the factory. It is the nature of DI engines. Vince has tried leaning them out and we start pulling timing. 24* is pretty good on 91 octane for our cars. If you want to advance the timing some more you will need to go to higher octane, like Ethanol.

As for your numbers, they seem a bit low but aren't bad. You should expect 15% (manual) to 20% (auto) drivetrain loss. So if you have an auto you would be about 325 at the crank. Again, every dyno is different and who knows what your real number is.
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647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:56 AM   #12
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Maybe this is a case of the Vararam hindering you on the dyno? Seems like the Vararam has had lots of "bad" dynos with some really good ones thrown into the mix. It just doesn't seem to always throw good numbers on the dyno...was there a decent high speed fan at the dyno?

Also, I'm curious to know what your upper-midrange gains were????...say around 5,000 to 5,400 rpm. That area should show the largest gain while peak will not show the largest gain.

That said if the dyno was SPOT on, I'd have expected around 245 to 250 stock and around 275 to 280 or more with the mods you have (automatic).

Last but not least...how does the car "feel" to you on the road?
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:53 AM   #13
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well read that they tested the Vararam and it didnt test well and asked not to post up the numbers ...
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:57 PM   #14
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well read that they tested the Vararam and it didnt test well and asked not to post up the numbers ...
Actually the first tests for the production Vararam were incredible...very good.

But they've also said it performs better on the road than it will on the dyno so not sure what was up with the dyno run, but since then the Vararam has had several dyno runs (usually with other mods) and didn't do as well as expected on the street, but there has also been a couple very good runs with it.

One thing that is common throughout is that owners seem to like it very much on the road.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:35 PM   #15
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Tracy has me sold on moving forward with CNC throttle body, Black-Iceolator (3/8") and I might as well jump on the RX polished ported IM, which looks bad a$$. Then I guess I'll need the Trifecta. Can't think of anything else after this, I'll be broke anyway lol
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:12 PM   #16
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My 2012 LFX was on the dyno yesterday and made 270hp/232tq and the only mod is a CAI Inc cold air intake. My air fuel ratio was lean until it hit 6500rpms or so. Here's the dyno graph. Granted, this is just a tailpipe sniffer.

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Old 06-24-2012, 09:24 PM   #17
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Not bad numbers meissen, seems to be better than many LLTs with just a CAI anyways.. I wish we really knew what the drivetrain loss on the manuals were. 323 HP with a 15% loss is 274 HP so if the loss is really 15% then it doesn't appear to be much of a peak gain, but if the loss is more than it is definitely a gain.

I'm sure it picked up numbers in the middle rpm as that seems to be the sweet spot for gains.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:46 PM   #18
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There are many differences between the 87 and 93 octane. Between my original dyno and last dyno was a good difference. The difference between a tank of 87 and 93 is going to cost you $4.00 more than normal to make your car run great. The benefits are in the long run. At the track I would stick 110 in the tank also and it ran fine. Hope this helps alittle.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:51 PM   #19
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DI engines run best around 13-13.5:1 na. It wasnt lean. 270 is a good number
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:34 AM   #20
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DI engines run best around 13-13.5:1 na. It wasnt lean. 270 is a good number
You're right - what I meant is that it's lean in terms of what we're used to seeing on a dyno at WOT.
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