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Old 06-24-2012, 03:57 PM   #18
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This is why just about all the tuners came out and stated not to make intake changes without a tune because of what they found with the MAP tuning (scalar values an offset) on the ZL1. GM made changes that were necessary for this car to meet emissions that weren't necessary for the CTS-V's. They also did it to purposely protect themselves on fraudulent warranty claims. If you just swap intakes or TB's the car will run lean with the factory values because the pressure reading will be off and the ECM swaps to a different fuel table as a protection mode. So yes there is power to be had with changing intakes and TB's but it will require changes to the MAP tables to safely and effectively do it. Yes...void the warranty. GM learned their lesson on the ZR1 and CTS-V's.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:12 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by RoketRdr View Post
GM learned their lesson on the ZR1 and CTS-V's.
Can you elaborate on this. I haven't followed the history of modding either of these cars.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:31 PM   #20
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Can you elaborate on this. I haven't followed the history of modding either of these cars.
Well it wasn't those cars specifically as much as it was any car being modded. But when it came to their cars with the high dollar engines/transmissions they realized they had to something to protect themselves from fraud and abuse. I'm sure you know GM has folks watching these forums and they are very well aware of what's being done to the cars and the mods that are made. Believe it or not GM does know that people want to mod their cars and that have that in mind when they are designing some of the powertrain aspects. They make information available to the aftermarket companies so they can build their products. The problem has become abuse of manufacturers warranty and letting them foot the bill for repairs that should have been the owners expense. Making heavy mods that blow up an engine and then removing all the aftermarket parts and tuning to make it look like the car was still stock is abuse of warranty. GM learned their lesson so this is why the ECM's are now set-up to log a change in factory tuning. If you blow up a $20K LS9 because you modded your car it shouldn't be GM's responsibility to pay for the engine replacement. After paying fraudulent warranty claims on Duramax's, Camaro's, CTS-V's and ZR1's they decided to do something about it. All these vehicles have high dollar engine/transmission combo's so of course they are the target of the new software that logs changes.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:49 PM   #21
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That makes sense. Too bad theres not an acceptable level of mods or a list of approved tuners who could make "reasonable" changes that wouldn't adversely affect durability. I know this isnt likely to happen, but it would be nice.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:00 PM   #22
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That makes sense. Too bad theres not an acceptable level of mods or a list of approved tuners who could make "reasonable" changes that wouldn't adversely affect durability. I know this isnt likely to happen, but it would be nice.
It won't surprise me if GM comes out with some "Stage" packages that can be bought and installed at the dealer with a warranty just like they did with the Cobalt SS. Would be minor things like CAI and proper tune to support it but the key factor is that GM cannot allow any factory tuning, upgrade or mod to take the car outside federally mandated emissions standards or the EPA will be breathing down their neck with heavy fines. Especially on vehicles like the Duramax, CTS-V, ZL1 and ZR1 because they are already on the performance edge of being out of emission specs.

But for the rest of us who don't care about no stinking warranty...throw on that 90mm TB with CAI and TUNE AWAY!!!
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:17 PM   #23
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Wow, the whole point of me looking at this cheap mod for now was the fact that you could GAIN (NOT LOSE) HP without tuning and ruining your factory warranty. This info has sort of put a pause on my decision...

Question: Did you guys bolt the 90mm TB onto an automatic or manual (stock) ZL1?
Our auto.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by RoketRdr View Post
Well it wasn't those cars specifically as much as it was any car being modded. But when it came to their cars with the high dollar engines/transmissions they realized they had to something to protect themselves from fraud and abuse. I'm sure you know GM has folks watching these forums and they are very well aware of what's being done to the cars and the mods that are made. Believe it or not GM does know that people want to mod their cars and that have that in mind when they are designing some of the powertrain aspects. They make information available to the aftermarket companies so they can build their products. The problem has become abuse of manufacturers warranty and letting them foot the bill for repairs that should have been the owners expense. Making heavy mods that blow up an engine and then removing all the aftermarket parts and tuning to make it look like the car was still stock is abuse of warranty. GM learned their lesson so this is why the ECM's are now set-up to log a change in factory tuning. If you blow up a $20K LS9 because you modded your car it shouldn't be GM's responsibility to pay for the engine replacement. After paying fraudulent warranty claims on Duramax's, Camaro's, CTS-V's and ZR1's they decided to do something about it. All these vehicles have high dollar engine/transmission combo's so of course they are the target of the new software that logs changes.

I don't blame GM one bit for all the precautions they take.
Having said that, I wonder if the pcm keeps a log of the odometer, surely it does.
Someone could just purchase a replacement pcm, then tune on that one. So if something does happen, all they have to do is put the stock pcm back in to make a claim.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:22 AM   #25
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Question: Did you guys bolt the 90mm TB onto an automatic or manual (stock) ZL1?
Manual. I noticed an improvement in power and sound on acceleration. No tune yet.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:28 AM   #26
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BTW.. don't be so quick to jump on the bandwagon of feeling warm and fuzzy about gm getting out of warranties. Its not always fair, and they will try to void any warranty they can as it saves millions in financial obligations. Its business, not a fairness issue.
Fact is, If you tune and then your oil pan leaks you will be denied warranty on the oil pan leak based on the tune, which is not right either.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:21 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by RoketRdr View Post
It won't surprise me if GM comes out with some "Stage" packages that can be bought and installed at the dealer with a warranty just like they did with the Cobalt SS. Would be minor things like CAI and proper tune to support it but the key factor is that GM cannot allow any factory tuning, upgrade or mod to take the car outside federally mandated emissions standards or the EPA will be breathing down their neck with heavy fines. Especially on vehicles like the Duramax, CTS-V, ZL1 and ZR1 because they are already on the performance edge of being out of emission specs.

But for the rest of us who don't care about no stinking warranty...throw on that 90mm TB with CAI and TUNE AWAY!!!
everyone laughed at me when i asked about stage kits like the cobalts had about 2 months ago. it would be awesome
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:18 PM   #28
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The only draw back of going with the larger 90mm throttle body of the ZL1 factory 87mm throttle body is that is looks hideous. Below is a picture of what it would look like mounted to the snout without making any changes to the air inlet.



This is what it will look like with a small modification to the air inlet pipe.



In order to flip the TB 180 degrees you need to make a very small modification tot he air inlet. Below are some photos I took describing what needs to be done to make this a very clean install and not have to look at the bulky actuator housing on the 90mm TB.









I hope this helps.
I don't see the pic or instructions. Am i missing a link or something.
Thanks
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:56 PM   #29
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I don't see pics either on my iphone
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:37 PM   #30
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if somone wants to see pics I can post some in I did this on my car. it is really simple though.

you just flip the 90mm 180 degrees when you intall it so the acuator does not stick out into viw as bad.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:14 PM   #31
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if somone wants to see pics I can post some in I did this on my car. it is really simple though.

you just flip the 90mm 180 degrees when you intall it so the acuator does not stick out into viw as bad.
Don't hassle the pics, just was curious about any other issues like if some of the vacuum lines and hoses needed to be moved or changed. I installed the Vmax ported 90mm TB the "normal" way, but there were 2 small issues. The T/B is less than 1/8" from the S/C pulley and one of the coolant hoses going to the S/C rubs on the actuator housing of the TB. So rather than fix those issues, I thought I would rotate the T/B 180 degrees. I have not tuned yet(just Roto-fab and 10% pulley). Did you tune?

Thanks
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:38 PM   #32
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It was basically flip it and bolt it. yeah I tuned it. I don't want to have to run extra octane on a street car.

Car almost has enough power now ha ha.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:35 PM   #33
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It was basically flip it and bolt it. yeah I tuned it. I don't want to have to run extra octane on a street car.

Car almost has enough power now ha ha.
Thanks, that is what i will do. Looks like we have the same mods, or will after I get the JRE tune. Do you think our injectors have enough left to accommodate long tube headers and high flow cats? That may be my last mod to the motor.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:44 PM   #34
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Thanks, that is what i will do. Looks like we have the same mods, or will after I get the JRE tune. Do you think our injectors have enough left to accommodate long tube headers and high flow cats? That may be my last mod to the motor.
I will report back after I do the datalog and see where I am at. I am not sure. Thats what I want to do as my last mod for a wile as well. just not sure if there is antyhing left.

If not I am just going to try off road mid-pipes instead of longtubes since there only $200. I would like to wake the sound of the car up a bit so longtubes are the best choice IMO but I don't have the $$ right now for the ID850's that everybody likes to run.
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