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Old 06-24-2012, 11:40 PM   #1
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Help on Narrowing down Subs and Few Install Questions

Hey guys trying to finalize the speakers and amps for my car and would appreciate just a little more input.

Choices so far:

Subthump 2010-2011 Camaro Trunk Dual Sealed Subwoofer Box Two-Tone Vinyl Sub Box

2 x 12" Subs. Which should I choose of these that I narrowed down from all my research that are between ($150-250)and not sure if I need 2 or 4 ohm for the amp below?

1. JL Audio 12W3v3-4
2. RE Audio SXX12D2
3. RE Audio SEX12D2
4. Sundown Audio SA-12 D2

Amp: JL AUDIO HD1200/1 1-CHANNEL 1200 WATTS CAR AMPLIFIER (not sure if 2 or 4 ohm subs should be chosen?)

Speakers: Hybrid Audio Complete Car Speakers Clarus Fronts and Imagine Rears

Amp: JL AUDIO HD600/4 600W MAX CLASS D 4-CHANNEL POWER MOSFET AMPLIFIER

Also should I get these things to have the best setup I can (money aside)? Or is some of this unnecessary?

Kicker Big 3 Kit
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...Big-3-Kit.html

300 Amp SPX High Output Alternator for 2010 Chevrolet Camaro 6.2L V8
https://www.dcpowerinc.com/fit/2010~...6-300-spx.html

Kinetik HC2000 (KHC2000) Battery
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...SearchClickout[query_id]=10545468&SearchClickout[Ignore]=1

Capacitors??? 1 Farad Do I need? I would think not if battery and alternator upgrade.

Am I missing anything else? Thanks for any input.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:57 AM   #2
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I tried to answer this last night but my browser kept screwing up....

Any of those subs will be fine with the 1200/1 amp. The amp pushes the same power into 4 ohms as it does into 1.5 ohms. The only subs of those that concern me are the JL subs as they are rated for 500W RMS and the amp should be pushing around 600W RMS into them, so I wouldn't go that route. The other subs should be fine though.

Of course amps and speakers look fine.

I have mixed feelings about the Big 3 kit. I believe that the factory + wire is 1/0, or very close it it. I didn't strip mine, but it looked close to 1/0. Also, since your battery is in the back, and your alternator is up front, you need a LOT longer than the 5 foot pieces of wire in that kit. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet you would use every piece in that kit elsewhere in your install.

If you have the budget for the alternator, go for it. 300A is serious overkill for 2000w, but I'm cool with overkill. Your total stereo draw at 100% (1800W) would be 150A, but unless you're doing competitions, you'll probably never see near that.

Great Battery.

You don't need a cap. With that alternator (or a sufficient alt) and that battery, you should not need a cap.

Questions:
1. Are you doing this install yourself?
2. You keeping the stock head unit?
3. Have you thought about adding a processor?
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:36 PM   #3
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And I thought no one was going to answer me! Thank you darkrider for the input.
What am I missing on the RMS as the amp says 1200W RMS?? You say only 600?
So if it were your choice would you get 2 x 2 Ohm or 2 x 4 Ohm and why?

Good thinking on the Big 3. Yes that cable would need to be way longer! I will check it and see if that is necessary. Maybe only do the "Big 2"

Thanks for confirming no cap needed!

Yes I think I will try and install myself but will get a friend who is knowledgeable to help. No, I have a new Kenwood HD6990 head unit and Scoesche done in real carbon fiber. I have not though about a processor. Do I really need it? I do need the remote for the bass amp though I forgot!

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...io-HD-RLC.html

Thanks for yours and anyone else s input!
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:10 PM   #4
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Im using that exact amp on those JL subs, and it sounds great. I also have the HD600/4.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:33 PM   #5
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Thats and awesome alternator Btw!!!
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by CamaroFTW View Post
And I thought no one was going to answer me! Thank you darkrider for the input.
What am I missing on the RMS as the amp says 1200W RMS?? You say only 600?
So if it were your choice would you get 2 x 2 Ohm or 2 x 4 Ohm and why?

Good thinking on the Big 3. Yes that cable would need to be way longer! I will check it and see if that is necessary. Maybe only do the "Big 2"

Thanks for confirming no cap needed!

Yes I think I will try and install myself but will get a friend who is knowledgeable to help. No, I have a new Kenwood HD6990 head unit and Scoesche done in real carbon fiber. I have not though about a processor. Do I really need it? I do need the remote for the bass amp though I forgot!

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...io-HD-RLC.html

Thanks for yours and anyone else s input!
The reason I said 600W RMS is because you will be dividing that 1200W by 2 subs, so they will get 600W each. If you throw 1200W RMS into a sub that is mean to handle 600W RMS, it will not hold up very long

Getting 2 or 4 ohm subs really doesn't matter with that amp. I would probably get the RE SXX12D2's and run them at a 2ohm total load (the coils in each speaker would be wired in series for a 4 ohm load per sub, then run the 2 subs in parallel). That's the way I would do it with the subs you have listed.

As far as processor goes, it's really up to you. I can only speak for myself, but I put a Scosche kit, Pioneer AVH-P8400BH, and a JBL MS-8 into my car this weekend. I listened to it briefly before hooking the MS-8 up and it sounded great. After connecting the MS-8 and running the setup, it went from great to heavenly. The front stage now is incredible. If I close my eyes, it sounds like the sound is coming from inside my head. It kinda messes with my mind. I only suggested the processor because I figured that if you're dropping $1k in speakers, you may want some time alignment and more than 3 EQ bands. I might would have been fine without the MS-8 (my Pioneer has 8-band adjustable EQ, Auto EQ, and some time alignment) but I wanted to be sure. I read a lot of good information about the unit, and it's a lot easier to install when you have everything else apart. I ran my MS-8 display cable into my glove box - couldn't find anywhere acceptable to mount the display.

Here's a couple other things you might want to make sure you have:

1. Dynamat, etc. The car needs a lot of it.
2. Speaker spacers. I bought mine from Sub Thump. Front and rear.
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:11 PM   #7
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I agree id get some sound deadner, dynamat is kinda expensive but there are other brands out there
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:44 PM   #8
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I agree id get some sound deadner, dynamat is kinda expensive but there are other brands out there
Fatmat is way cheaper. I got some on Amazon, even cheaper than ebay
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:18 PM   #9
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Fatmat is way cheaper. I got some on Amazon, even cheaper than ebay
I actually got my Dynamat from Amazon. Bulk pack (36 sq.ft.) for $140 shipped. Love me some Amazon
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:57 PM   #10
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This is why C5 is great...thanks for all the input so far. Darkrider, man you layout some detailed info brah! I was kind of leaning to the RE Audios myself as the reviews are so good and the price is about $50 under the JL's. Now I have to look at and consider a processor. I read the Audison Bit one though may be the best one to get(?) Thoughts?

As far as the sound deadener I did not list this as I have already start this a few months ago. I like the RAAMmat best (HERE) for the price to performance. I have already done both doors and have started the trunk. Will do the 6x9 shelf next. I wont go crazy and rip out all my car though..I am not that extreme!

Here some pics of my doors with RAAMmat and Ensolite covering for finishing ( I have to find the pics of the other metal side of the doors which were also done.:






Last edited by CamaroFTW; 06-26-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:48 PM   #11
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JBL MS-8
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:50 AM   #12
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Fatmat is way cheaper. I got some on Amazon, even cheaper than ebay
Fatmat is made from asphalt and not butyl. Dynamat is made from butyl. So are lots of the other brands, like the rammat that CamaroFTW recommended. From everything I have read, you should avoid Fatmat and the other asphalt based deadeners.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:43 AM   #13
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You should not need the alternator or a cap. I am running a PDX4.150 to Focal KRX2 speakers in front and Polk 6x9s in the rear (these will be replaced with Focals later.) I am also running two PDX 1.1000 amps, each to it's own 12" Alpine Type R sub in a Subthump box. RMS output of these amps total over 2800 watts. I have yet to see any dimming of the lights or even a twitch of the voltage gauge. I have a Current meter partially installed so I can see how much current is being drawn by the system.

This is so loud and clean that it's too loud before there is noticeable distortion and still no noticeable impact on the electrical system. Using the right power cable is a huge factor. I used 1/0 from the battery to a distribution block and same on the ground to a block. Then I used 4 gauge from the blocks to the amps keeping the lengths at a minimum. It sounds awesome with the Boston head. Can't wait to hear it with a MS-8 installed. The Focal speakers are worth every penny and so are the PDX amps.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:42 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by CamaroFTW View Post
This is why C5 is great...thanks for all the input so far. Darkrider, man you layout some detailed info brah! I was kind of leaning to the RE Audios myself as the reviews are so good and the price is about $50 under the JL's. Now I have to look at and consider a processor. I read the Audison Bit one though may be the best one to get(?) Thoughts?

As far as the sound deadener I did not list this as I have already start this a few months ago. I like the RAAMmat best (HERE) for the price to performance. I have already done both doors and have started the trunk. Will do the 6x9 shelf next. I wont go crazy and rip out all my car though..I am not that extreme!
The Audison Bit One is great and I don't think anyone will deny that. The only problem with the Bit One is that it may take you months to get it dialed in properly - and that is with someone experienced with it doing the tuning. The JBL MS-8 does 90-95% of that for you automatically. I can point you to a great writeup about the MS-8 from someone who is more familiar with both the Bit One and the MS-8 if you like. I recommend the MS-8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinshawnm View Post
JBL MS-8
Yeah, I totally recommend this as well.

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Originally Posted by CWIweldace View Post
You should not need the alternator or a cap. I am running a PDX4.150 to Focal KRX2 speakers in front and Polk 6x9s in the rear (these will be replaced with Focals later.) I am also running two PDX 1.1000 amps, each to it's own 12" Alpine Type R sub in a Subthump box. RMS output of these amps total over 2800 watts. I have yet to see any dimming of the lights or even a twitch of the voltage gauge. I have a Current meter partially installed so I can see how much current is being drawn by the system.

This is so loud and clean that it's too loud before there is noticeable distortion and still no noticeable impact on the electrical system. Using the right power cable is a huge factor. I used 1/0 from the battery to a distribution block and same on the ground to a block. Then I used 4 gauge from the blocks to the amps keeping the lengths at a minimum. It sounds awesome with the Boston head. Can't wait to hear it with a MS-8 installed. The Focal speakers are worth every penny and so are the PDX amps.
Sounds like you wired yours the exact same way I wired mine (1/0 to blocks with 4 Ga. to amps). I have not seen any issues with voltage drop either, but I'll stand by my statement that if he has the budget for it, it's never a bad upgrade.

I'd be very interested to know what kind of current your system is drawing. What kind of music are you listening to?
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:03 AM   #15
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My hesitations with the MS-8 are that it only takes a 2-channel input. Which means you lose fade control on your HU.

The other is that you need that touch screen controller in your car.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:35 AM   #16
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My hesitations with the MS-8 are that it only takes a 2-channel input. Which means you lose fade control on your HU.

The other is that you need that touch screen controller in your car.
I had similar reservations before I installed it. I could care less about the fade control now. Before the MS-8 I needed the fade control badly. With the MS-8 in now though, my stage is so good that I don't want to touch the fader. You can always use the fade control of the MS-8 if you need.

I'm not sure what you mean about a touch screen. The screen for the MS-8 is not a touch screen, nor does it need to remain connected to the MS-8 after tuning is complete. I have my screen disconnected. It is with the MS-8 remote in a pouch in my glove box (for any tweaking I may decide upon in the future). As a comparison, the Bit One has a remote screen as well.
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:34 AM   #17
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I had similar reservations before I installed it. I could care less about the fade control now. Before the MS-8 I needed the fade control badly. With the MS-8 in now though, my stage is so good that I don't want to touch the fader. You can always use the fade control of the MS-8 if you need.

I'm not sure what you mean about a touch screen. The screen for the MS-8 is not a touch screen, nor does it need to remain connected to the MS-8 after tuning is complete. I have my screen disconnected. It is with the MS-8 remote in a pouch in my glove box (for any tweaking I may decide upon in the future). As a comparison, the Bit One has a remote screen as well.
So the only control you lost was fade? Do your tone controls work? Do you still have your factory HU?
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:42 PM   #18
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As far as processor goes, it's really up to you. I can only speak for myself, but I put a Scosche kit, Pioneer AVH-P8400BH, and a JBL MS-8 into my car this weekend. I listened to it briefly before hooking the MS-8 up and it sounded great. After connecting the MS-8 and running the setup, it went from great to heavenly. The front stage now is incredible. If I close my eyes, it sounds like the sound is coming from inside my head. It kinda messes with my mind. I only suggested the processor because I figured that if you're dropping $1k in speakers, you may want some time alignment and more than 3 EQ bands. I might would have been fine without the MS-8 (my Pioneer has 8-band adjustable EQ, Auto EQ, and some time alignment) but I wanted to be sure. I read a lot of good information about the unit, and it's a lot easier to install when you have everything else apart. I ran my MS-8 display cable into my glove box - couldn't find anywhere acceptable to mount the display.
You are making me want to get a processor now... Does it work with all of your factory controls or do you need to control it from the interface that came with the MS-8? I wouldn't want to give up the look and easy of the factory interface.

**EDIT** I should have read further down the thread. Looks like jeepguy_1980 and I have the similar concerns.

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I actually got my Dynamat from Amazon. Bulk pack (36 sq.ft.) for $140 shipped. Love me some Amazon
+1 - Amazon is the way to go for Dyanmat. Can beat the price and the free shipping doesn't hurt.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:19 PM   #19
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So the only control you lost was fade? Do your tone controls work? Do you still have your factory HU?
I still have fade control, I just use the MS-8 for fade control now. The MS-8 has adjustable fade.

I have removed my factory radio now and am using a Pioneer AVH-P8400BH as a head unit. I had reservations about changing the head as I thought the factory unit was pretty good. I am soo glad I have my Pioneer now. The bluetooth is 1000% better, among other things. In the end, I chose sound over aesthetics.

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You are making me want to get a processor now... Does it work with all of your factory controls or do you need to control it from the interface that came with the MS-8? I wouldn't want to give up the look and easy of the factory interface.

**EDIT** I should have read further down the thread. Looks like jeepguy_1980 and I have the similar concerns.

+1 - Amazon is the way to go for Dyanmat. Can beat the price and the free shipping doesn't hurt.
You must use the MS-8 display to control the MS-8. After you have the MS-8 set up, you can remove the display and store it away. You then use your head unit for volume. The MS-8 has tone controls, but I have a PEQ knob for my sub which is all I ever adjust now.

Maybe I'm just thick, but what is the big deal with the fade control? I understand it was needed before I put in the MS-8. My rears were either absent (before my old Clarion EQ) or overpowering (when I added a Clarion EQ). With the MS-8, they seem to stay just right (Clarion EQ gone). I haven't felt the need to change fade control at all since I put in the MS-8. Is fade something you guys are constantly changing? If so, what is causing you to need to adjust it so often?
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:12 PM   #20
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I still have fade control, I just use the MS-8 for fade control now. The MS-8 has adjustable fade.

I have removed my factory radio now and am using a Pioneer AVH-P8400BH as a head unit. I had reservations about changing the head as I thought the factory unit was pretty good. I am soo glad I have my Pioneer now. The bluetooth is 1000% better, among other things. In the end, I chose sound over aesthetics.



You must use the MS-8 display to control the MS-8. After you have the MS-8 set up, you can remove the display and store it away. You then use your head unit for volume. The MS-8 has tone controls, but I have a PEQ knob for my sub which is all I ever adjust now.

Maybe I'm just thick, but what is the big deal with the fade control? I understand it was needed before I put in the MS-8. My rears were either absent (before my old Clarion EQ) or overpowering (when I added a Clarion EQ). With the MS-8, they seem to stay just right (Clarion EQ gone). I haven't felt the need to change fade control at all since I put in the MS-8. Is fade something you guys are constantly changing? If so, what is causing you to need to adjust it so often?

Personally I don't care about the fader. I only run front components right now anyhow. If I used the MS8 I wanted to be able to hide it out of the way and have the volume function like stock. I didn't want to be stuck using a separate control panel to control the volume. This sounds like it isn't the case though so I probably need to start saving my pennies so I can get one.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:01 AM   #21
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Personally I don't care about the fader. I only run front components right now anyhow. If I used the MS8 I wanted to be able to hide it out of the way and have the volume function like stock. I didn't want to be stuck using a separate control panel to control the volume. This sounds like it isn't the case though so I probably need to start saving my pennies so I can get one.
Yeah, I just set my MS-8 volume to max and use my head unit to control volume. I kinda want to rewire my fronts to two-way active, but I think my wife would kill me. She helped me install most everything, and she would scream if I told her I want to take it apart again.

I love my MS-8. I haven't done anything to mine except turn it off (defeat) to see how much difference it makes. I think that if I had bought it first instead of last, I might would have kept the factory speakers. Or maybe not.....lol.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:20 AM   #22
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Hey thanks for all the input on the signal processor. I have been studying this the last few days and have decided on the newly released Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY.3
This thing looks really nice and easy to configure via laptop and it can be adjusted via iphone or android. I will probably switch to Rockford amps too since it has the intelligent control. I am really excited to try this out!

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/News/....aspx?id=12836
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroFTW View Post
Hey thanks for all the input on the signal processor. I have been studying this the last few days and have decided on the newly released Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY.3
This thing looks really nice and easy to configure via laptop and it can be adjusted via iphone or android. I will probably switch to Rockford amps too since it has the intelligent control. I am really excited to try this out!

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/News/....aspx?id=12836
I was going to go with a 3Sixty.3 myself, but I think it will be a while before you see one anywhere for sale. Since Rockford introduced the 3Sixty.3 in January of 2011, and there have been very few demo units out to just a few shops, I think that it is doubtful we will see the actual units until late this year. I may sell my MS-8 when it comes out, but I really don't think that the 3Sixty.3 will be available for retail any time soon.
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:45 PM   #24
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There are a few out there and more are supposed to be available starting tomorrow from what I read at a few places. Sonic has them SKU'd up and there is someone selling them on eBay already:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ROCKFORD...item43b1495233
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by CamaroFTW View Post
There are a few out there and more are supposed to be available starting tomorrow from what I read at a few places. Sonic has them SKU'd up and there is someone selling them on eBay already:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ROCKFORD...item43b1495233
Sonic has had it on their website for a couple of months, but the ebay link is very promising. I hope you're right about them becoming more available.
__________________
My amplifier pop/click/thump solution thread
Power Mods * K&N Typhoon CAI, Flowmaster American Thunder cat-back exhaust, Hurst Short Throw Shifter Visual Mods * Black Phantom Grille * 22" T.I.S. 537MS wheels w/ Nitto INVO rubber Suspension Mods * BC Racing Coilovers * Lakewood Strut Tower Brace Audio Mods * Stinger SPP 2250 Battery * Pioneer DEX-P99RS * Pioneer AVH-X7500BT * Scosche Dash Kit * 2 - Mosconi AS200.4 * 2 - JL Audio 13W6v2 * Focal 165KRX2 Power (active) * Mosconi Gladen One 240.2 * Rockford Fosgate Power T1692
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