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Old 06-27-2012, 04:31 PM   #141
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I definitely feel the ZL1 is a better designed car, all Ford did was throw the biggest, badest motor in the mustang and see what it could do.
I’m not dogging this shoe horn method because that’s what produced the super cars of the 60's and 70's. They would throw the biggest ever-loving motor they could get their hands one in those cars, and got pretty good results. I can appreciate the GT500, I’ve actually had the privilege of driving a 1968 GT500 Shelby Cobra Mustang (not mine), and let me tell you that 428 had no room to wiggle!!! But, having said this, cars should be about their total performance, not just one feat of excellence. To me, it’s like a good quarterback, he may be able to throw a ball, but can he run, can he move, make good decisions?
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:33 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2 View Post
It is coming down from a much higher speed, and the suspension is no aid at all as it is on the ZL1, neither is tire size. I would also assume in order to hit the 200 MPH mark, break ducting was not an option as it would spoil the front end, adding lift. Clear win for the newer ZL1 chassis here, but expect the new Ford Chassis to deal with all of these issues.



True. But we are behind. Not much more we can do with the limits of the current SRA on ride height, and handling. Still amazed quite frankly that the GT500 was able to outperform the ZL1. Somebody give these guys IRS, a lower ride height, wider wheel wheels, and the magnetic ride suspension.


It better be good, because if Ford can make this outdated chassis and suspension put down these kind of numbers GM might want to start head-hunting the Ford engineers.




Generally true, but why did GM leave so much power on the table? Can the car handle it, because if you go chasing it you will void your warranty. The Ford still has more power as well, but with the current chassis, simply no use for it.
This. I think GM knew what they could accomplish by giving the car better balance and "only" giving it 580 HP vs. 662 HP. Also, one needs to understand that even though the ZL1 is the "KING" Camaro or muscle car and will always go up against FORD's "KING" GT500, the Corvette is really Chevy's true sports car. Chevy will always try and find a HP balance for it's "KING" Camaro but keep it under the HP rating for it's "KING" Corvette (ZR1). So while the next gen ZL1 on the new platform may have more than 580HP and I'm sure Ford's next-gen GT500 will have more HP too, I think Ford will always put more HP into it's Mustang...especially if it has the legendary SHELBY name attached to it.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:37 PM   #143
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This thread is getting nauseating. Before today, hero runs/1 lappers were the benchmark and bible. Today, it isn't. People change their arguments based on the latest comparo results. The fact is, neither of these two FI'd cars wouldn't be a roadracer's choice. How hard is it to just say, GT500 is not a 1 trick pony and the ZL1 is a nice all-around car.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:38 PM   #144
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Really impressive cars. Different approaches and I prefer the ZL1, but both are fantastic machines. Like the writers I see the ZL1 as the better all around car. If strait lines are the ultimate goal then look to the COPO.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:40 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Heaven_is_inferno_orange View Post
I completely agree. I also think its more important to be able to do more than just run a straight line.

My two cents: If I wanted a car for drag racing I wouldnt buy an overpriced mustang that still at best only runs high 11's. I would just build a drag car. Where the ZL1 can be fun at lots of different courses and functions as a DD, thus getting more out of it for my money. And I like saving money, that means lots of new mods.
Couldn't have said it better myself
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:44 PM   #146
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So much for the camaro being better on track....
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:54 PM   #147
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So much for the camaro being better on track....
It is...not the 1/4 mile track, but the road course track...if you wanna call it that. The Camaro ended up being the better all around car.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #148
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Once GM does the H.P. upgrade on the ZL1, it will beat The Mustang in every category.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #149
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Can't complete 3 laps? What article are you reading?
The brakes were fading bad after the 1st lap, lap times were dropping after each lap, and Probst was worried how much brakes he had left. I'm guessing he stopped after the third lap.

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I didn't realize being less than two tenths of a second behind your competitor means not completing a lap. So was the z not running on the first or second lap?

I suggest everyone actually read the article instead of only the camaro5 cliffnotes.
Once you get into brake fade, it's time to call it quits. It's not worth risking finding out how bad it will get.

He completed three laps, but from the sounds of it, that was it. It would be interesting to see all of the lap times for each car.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:13 PM   #150
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The brakes were fading bad after the 1st lap, lap times were dropping after each lap, and Probst was worried how much brakes he had left. I'm guessing he stopped after the third lap.



Once you get into brake fade, it's time to call it quits. It's not worth risking finding out how bad it will get.

He completed three laps, but from the sounds of it, that was it. It would be interesting to see all of the lap times for each car.
Neither car did more than three laps according to the article. The GT500 ran

1. 1:38.69
2. 1:39.03
3. 1:39.30

Camaro fastest lap was 1:39.18 and the article said it deviated by no more than two tenths of a second. Since that was the fastest lap we can assume the slowest lap for the Camaro was around 1:39.38. Either way, if this were a three lap race the gt500 was faster, if you use average lap times, the gt500 was faster. I agree the gt500 seems to need a pad upgrade and possibly some ducting, but in the confines of this test the gt500 was faster on track overall and in single lap. Does that mean it's better? Absolutely not. Does that mean the gt500 will always be faster on a road course? Of course not. However it does mean it was faster in this test. . . that's not really debatable.


Again, I suggest people read the whole article rather than just the cliffnotes.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:22 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by 8cd03gro View Post
Neither car did more than three laps according to the article. The GT500 ran

1. 1:38.69
2. 1:39.03
3. 1:39.30

Camaro fastest lap was 1:39.18 and the article said it deviated by no more than two tenths of a second. Since that was the fastest lap we can assume the slowest lap for the Camaro was around 1:39.38. Either way, if this were a three lap race the gt500 was faster, if you use average lap times, the gt500 was faster. I agree the gt500 seems to need a pad upgrade and possibly some ducting, but in the confines of this test the gt500 was faster on track overall and in single lap. Does that mean it's better? Absolutely not. Does that mean the gt500 will always be faster on a road course? Of course not. However it does mean it was faster in this test. . . that's not really debatable.


Again, I suggest people read the whole article rather than just the cliffnotes.
Please point out where they said they only ran 3 laps in the ZL1. (it's not there)
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:22 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by 8cd03gro View Post
Neither car did more than three laps according to the article. The GT500 ran

1. 1:38.69
2. 1:39.03
3. 1:39.30

Camaro fastest lap was 1:39.18 and the article said it deviated by no more than two tenths of a second. Since that was the fastest lap we can assume the slowest lap for the Camaro was around 1:39.38. Either way, if this were a three lap race the gt500 was faster, if you use average lap times, the gt500 was faster. I agree the gt500 seems to need a pad upgrade and possibly some ducting, but in the confines of this test the gt500 was faster on track overall and in single lap. Does that mean it's better? Absolutely not. Does that mean the gt500 will always be faster on a road course? Of course not. However it does mean it was faster in this test. . . that's not really debatable.


Again, I suggest people read the whole article rather than just the cliffnotes.

Good point. I agree though that better pads and brake fluid would have solved the brake fade problem - something that road racers are going to do anyway.

However, those arguing that "if the ZL1 gained more HP it would win" need better material. Changing brake pads and fluids is one thing, increasing HP in a stock car with warranty is a whole new ball game.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:26 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by PistonsFan View Post
Please point out where they said they only ran 3 laps in the ZL1. (it's not there)
I misread one of the statements in the article, but they did only report three laps and their wording suggests that's all she wrote. Though, where do they say the gt500 only ran three laps? It sounds like they only ran three in each, but I could be wrong.

"By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second."

"Meanwhile", to me, would suggest within that three-lap span. What do you think they mean?

Regardless of how many laps they ran, you seem to want to ignore the fact though that even the GT500's slowest lap after brake fade was only 1 tenth behind the ZL1's FASTEST lap and still not as slow as the ZL1's slowest lap if their 2-tenths statement is accurate. If the brakes were really that terrifyingly sloppy after three laps, why is the ZL1 only 0.12s faster in it's fastest lap of the day?
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:28 PM   #154
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Please point out where they said they only ran 3 laps in the ZL1. (it's not there)
They stated the lap times for 3 laps; therefore ...
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