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Old 06-27-2012, 02:29 PM   #101
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How long are the mods going to let us drown in bench racing before they get rid of these threads?
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:32 PM   #102
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Damn, that puts it really clear. It hurts me to look at it. Time to put the LS9 in the ZL1!
How Manly will these guys be in another 5 -10 years of DD in the GT500
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:36 PM   #103
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Why do most people overlook the obvious when it comes to these 2 cars. Best bang for the buck is the GT500 hands down. It outperforms 2 out of 3 tests in the original post. We are talking a outright spanking off the showroom floor. Give it a few mods and I am sure it would get even worse. Ford has stepped up the game and if GM doesn't soon it will be a shame. If you want to say "well the ZL1 is better on the street" good for you and make sure you tell that to the gt500 when you pull up next to one at the track, if you actually take it there. I love my camaro but I am not brand loyal at all. If I were to do it again I would be looking at a SRT8 Grand Cherokee since it can do everything I want it to and even drive in the snow. So when I see a GT500 in the middle of winter I will win!
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:40 PM   #104
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If GM was offering an $8000 dollar power package to match the $8000 dollar performance package that the reviewers always seem to include when comparing the ZL1 to the GT500 would this make it closer to an apples to apples test or should they be testing both vehicles at base price?

Or does everyone, including Ford fans, think it is fair comparing a $64,770 GT500 against a $56,365 ZL1?
I bet most Camaro fans thought it was fair comparing the 56K Supercharged ZL1 to the the 48K N/A BOSS 302 LS?

Im sure if the Camaro had performance options MT woould have had them on the test car.

Both are great cars. Faster than I would ever need hahaha, but I would sure love either one in my driveway
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:47 PM   #105
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How long are the mods going to let us drown in bench racing before they get rid of these threads?[/QUOTE]

^ I was unaware that they taped u to a chair and made u read this thread. Just saying. I don't read threads in the v6 area. Or all the threads about whatever I don't care about.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:59 PM   #106
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How long are the mods going to let us drown in bench racing before they get rid of these threads?
^ I was unaware that they taped u to a chair and made u read this thread. Just saying. I don't read threads in the v6 area. Or all the threads about whatever I don't care about.
There are forum Nazis everywhere. It's really easy to detect them - they're always wanting to ban people and close threads. You can just see their heads explode when they open up threads they know they'll hate so they can bring out the ban flag.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:06 PM   #107
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You guys aren't getting it.

It's not about comfort.

It's not about magnetic suspension.

It's not about LRA vs IRS.

It's not about power.

It's all about brakes. The GT500 lost because of brakes.

Let's talk about that.
shelby has brake heat issue and carries less speed throught the corners. if you look at the overlay there no way all the time was made up just in the brake zones on lap 1.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:08 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Rcfiddy1 View Post
Why do most people overlook the obvious when it comes to these 2 cars. Best bang for the buck is the GT500 hands down. It outperforms 2 out of 3 tests in the original post. We are talking a outright spanking off the showroom floor. Give it a few mods and I am sure it would get even worse. Ford has stepped up the game and if GM doesn't soon it will be a shame. If you want to say "well the ZL1 is better on the street" good for you and make sure you tell that to the gt500 when you pull up next to one at the track, if you actually take it there. I love my camaro but I am not brand loyal at all. If I were to do it again I would be looking at a SRT8 Grand Cherokee since it can do everything I want it to and even drive in the snow. So when I see a GT500 in the middle of winter I will win!
at the drag strip yes

at the road coarse no

if the TP/PP car can't complete 3 laps what does the stock coupe do there?

if oil temps are in danger level with an oil cooler how bad is it without?


or is the TP/PP a waste of money and the normal couple not that bad?
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:15 PM   #109
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Nice I've been waiting for this.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:19 PM   #110
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Power is easier to increase than handling ability. Damned close race between two titans, to the victor go the spoils!
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:21 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Rcfiddy1 View Post
Why do most people overlook the obvious when it comes to these 2 cars. Best bang for the buck is the GT500 hands down. It outperforms 2 out of 3 tests in the original post. We are talking a outright spanking off the showroom floor. Give it a few mods and I am sure it would get even worse. Ford has stepped up the game and if GM doesn't soon it will be a shame. If you want to say "well the ZL1 is better on the street" good for you and make sure you tell that to the gt500 when you pull up next to one at the track, if you actually take it there. I love my camaro but I am not brand loyal at all. If I were to do it again I would be looking at a SRT8 Grand Cherokee since it can do everything I want it to and even drive in the snow. So when I see a GT500 in the middle of winter I will win!
I don’t agree with your statement, if talking about the best bang for the buck the ZL1 is a better buy due to the $5k price advantage when comparing equally equipped vehicles. If you price out the GT500 with the track pack and PP it is going to cost over $5k more than the ZL1. If you use that $5k on power mods for the ZL1 now you have two vehicles with the same amount of money in them and the ZL1 would now completely dominate the GT500 in probably every category for the same amount of money.

Do you think the BASE GT500 is a better bang for the buck than the BASE ZL1?
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:24 PM   #112
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at the drag strip yes

at the road coarse no

if the TP/PP car can't complete 3 laps what does the stock coupe do there?

if oil temps are in danger level with an oil cooler how bad is it without?


or is the TP/PP a waste of money and the normal couple not that bad?
Can't complete 3 laps? What article are you reading?
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:24 PM   #113
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shelby has brake heat issue and carries less speed throught the corners. if you look at the overlay there no way all the time was made up just in the brake zones on lap 1.
Agreed on your comment I bolded......but without the telemetry or in-car video to determine when/where Randy began his braking, it's hard to say which aspect carried more weight in determining the final lap time(s).

I don't think I read anything in Randy's commentary that suggested the Camaro was able to brake way deeper into the corner than the Mustang, but I did read his comments on brake feel and fade as he ran lap's two and three. It's in those laps that the Camaro was able to equal (and apparently, surpass) the Mustang's successive hot laps, as the Camaro brake package performed much better.

To have covered the lagging distance after the long straights (72+ feet at times) and the 4-8 MPH speed difference, and turn that deficit into being ahead at the exit of the corner suggest that the suspension allowed much greater cornering speeds.

IMHO, of course
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #114
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I bet most Camaro fans thought it was fair comparing the 56K Supercharged ZL1 to the the 48K N/A BOSS 302 LS?
In that case I think most camaro fans were impressed how the ZL1 was able to beat the lighter car through the turns.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:27 PM   #115
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Can't complete 3 laps? What article are you reading?
Yeah, single lap, lap times (or hero laps) are so 24 hrs ago. Everyone has moved on to multi-lap, lap times.

If the GT500 finds a way to deal with the brake fade and oil temperature issue (only experienced by MT btw), then we very well could end up at the 24 hour LeMons. After that the Dakar Rally.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:29 PM   #116
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I didn't realize being less than two tenths of a second behind your competitor means not completing a lap. So was the z not running on the first or second lap?

I suggest everyone actually read the article instead of only the camaro5 cliffnotes.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:30 PM   #117
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The way these tests are turning out. It would be very interesting to see what the GT500 pulled at the Nurburgring. I have a feeling if it was better than the ZL1 Ford would have revealed it already especially in the face of losing the head to head matchups in the rags to the subjectively preferred ZL1.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:32 PM   #118
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Can't complete 3 laps? What article are you reading?
While he wrote it down exactly as you quoted him, I think you have taken it out of context.

There's no doubt in my mind that if Randy would have continued to perform hot laps, the GT500 would have slowed on each successive lap, all due to the lack of brake pedal "feel"..and by extension, braking ability. How far it would have dropped is anybody's guess, but HPDE's are generally 15-20 minute sessions...so we're talking anywhere from 7-10 laps plus.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:37 PM   #119
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...Do you think the BASE GT500 is a better bang for the buck than the BASE ZL1?
I do. I would put no options on EITHER car (much like I have a no-option Vette). As such, for me and my biases, the GT500 is the better performance deal (comparing only these two base cars).

And it doesn't bother me if you disagree, or have a different opinion.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:39 PM   #120
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Exactly what I been expecting. Both have plus points and negatives so Imo opinion its hard to choose, but just imagine if the ZL1 was lighter with a little more power???

All n all i really appreciate the car wars WE ALL WIN
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:39 PM   #121
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The way these tests are turning out. It would be very interesting to see what the GT500 pulled at the Nurburgring. I have a feeling if it was better than the ZL1 Ford would have revealed it already especially in the face of losing the head to head matchups in the rags to the subjectively preferred ZL1.
Somehow I don't think Ford counts winning measurable performance metrics as losing.

I also don't think they would deny that the GT500 is not the 1st choice for road racing.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:43 PM   #122
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In that case I think most camaro fans were impressed how the ZL1 was able to beat the lighter car through the turns.
Im sure they were. I was simply bringing up the point of cost in the post I quoted. They were talking about how it might not be fair to compare a more expensive GT500 to the ZL1, but I didnt see anything like that when the ZL1 was compared to the Boss.

I think its crazy what both companies have done with these cars, especially the ZL1 bc I think we can all agree its a heavy car.

What is great about having both of these cars, its going to make each company keep getting better.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:50 PM   #123
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Anyone can drive in a straight line. ZL1 won where it counts, IMO.
I completely agree. I also think its more important to be able to do more than just run a straight line.

My two cents: If I wanted a car for drag racing I wouldnt buy an overpriced mustang that still at best only runs high 11's. I would just build a drag car. Where the ZL1 can be fun at lots of different courses and functions as a DD, thus getting more out of it for my money. And I like saving money, that means lots of new mods.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:53 PM   #124
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If you compare the HP/ to weight ratio, you will see that Zl1 did more than handle itself well... You subtract some weight, or add some more Ponies to the ZL1 its no competition!!!!!
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:55 PM   #125
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If you compare the HP/ to weight ratio, you will see that Zl1 did more than handle itself well... You subtract some weight, or add some more Ponies to the ZL1 its no competition!!!!!
Ya but do the same for the gt500 with some tires, brake pads, dot4 fluid and brake ducts and you'll still be good under warranty.

Both cars are great performers that need just a little tweaking to be awesome machines without many rivals.
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