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Old 06-27-2012, 12:26 PM   #69
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they also said the camaro was less bumpy and a more better car for long drives....love my camaro...but the ford guys are not to far behind.
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:26 PM   #70
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Haha no just think they are both amazing cars. I think the Z just needs more speed. Being left at every stop light would get old. Outside looks of the Z and road manners/handling are a 10/10 I think.
Ya, I plan on intercooler, CAI, pullies and tune, maybe headers. Should help a lot.
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:33 PM   #71
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Ya, I plan on intercooler, CAI, pullies and tune, maybe headers. Should help a lot.
If i was buying a Z these would be my exact mods. Tint the windows plus those mods and put gas in it every 5 days and drive the Sh*t out of it.
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:34 PM   #72
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Most important test for you. I find corners to be exceptionally fun and far more important.

I hear you man.. i respect your opinion ..!

Hey you have more pics of your cae? i am ordering the gm ground effects package and i have black and want to keep them gray too.. It looks sick with the cyber gray stripes..
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:38 PM   #73
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Oblig: "Why isn't this in the Camaro VS area where it belongs?" comment
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:39 PM   #74
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that chart is exaclty what is wrong with the internet. It is all about numbers and not reality....
One could make a pretty good arguement that numbers ARE reality, I think. One could also make a good arguement that there is more to comparing a couple of cars than those numbers, which I'm sure is your take - and a quite valid one indeed.

And finally, one could argue that the chart is being mostly ignored because the numbers aren't what the majority of this audience wishes to see.
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:40 PM   #75
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:41 PM   #76
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If these cars could talk this would be the conversation.

ZL1: Anything you can do I can do better
... I can do anything better than you
GT500: No, you can't
ZL1: Yes, I can
GT500: No, you can't
ZL1: Yes, I can
GT500: No, you can't
ZL1: Yes, I can, yes, I can

GT500: Anything you can be I can be greater
... Sooner or later I'm greater than you
ZL1: No, you're not
GT500: Yes, I am
ZL1: No, you're not
GT500: Yes, I am
ZL1: No, you're not
GT500: Yes, I am, yes I am
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:49 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by A-little-perspective View Post
If these cars could talk this would be the conversation.

ZL1: Anything you can do I can do better
... I can do anything better than you
GT500: No, you can't
ZL1: Yes, I can
GT500: No, you can't
ZL1: Yes, I can
GT500: No, you can't
ZL1: Yes, I can, yes, I can

GT500: Anything you can be I can be greater
... Sooner or later I'm greater than you
ZL1: No, you're not
GT500: Yes, I am
ZL1: No, you're not
GT500: Yes, I am
ZL1: No, you're not
GT500: Yes, I am, yes I am
LMAO!
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:51 PM   #78
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30% is reasonable

Testing a $200k car against a $210k car is reasonable


The point is that's what's practiced around the world - I'm just telling you how it is. The fact that you don't think it's reasonable is irrelevant because the world doesn't care about your opinion when it makes its comparisons.
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:59 PM   #79
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The GT500 excelled in both the straight-line speed test and the road course. Ford was determined to compete in this class, and IMO they have done a remarkable job with the GT500. Preference is one thing, but the actual numbers show the strengths and weaknesses of the competing cars.

I wonder what Chevy is planning for a rebuttal?
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:01 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Bob Cosby View Post
And finally, one could argue that the chart is being mostly ignored because the numbers aren't what the majority of this audience wishes to see.
As I stated in another thread I think the chart is mostly being ignored because the chart emphasizes what people already know, as it has 11 effectively repetitive straight line acceleration comparisons.

A chart that displays the results of essentially redundant straight line acceleration comparisons 11 different times is not noteworthy, as people already knew that the GT500 is faster in straight line acceleration, and the fact that the GT500 is faster than the ZL1 in straight line acceleration is simply not news that needs comment.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:03 PM   #81
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I wonder what Chevy is planning for a rebuttal?
There is no need for a rebuttal from Chevrolet as most reviews so far have concluded that the ZL1 is the better overall vehicle.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:04 PM   #82
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I'd still prefer a straight line car than a corner carver anyday. I'd rather have the advantage where I can use it anywhere on any road where 99% of driving will take place, rather than making excuses, "Well if we were at the Autocross..." . GT500 in my book, it's faster and more powerful.

If I wanted a corner carver I'd build a kickass 240 for half the money and smoke both cars on the track.
I'd prefer the car that is more comfortable where it will spend more than 99% of it's time for most, the street. And still have a blast at the drag strip or road course.

If I wanted a straight line car I'd build a kickass drag car for less than a 1/3 of the money and smoke both of them at the track. Just sayin..

Didn't buy the car to win trophies, I bought the car to have fun while maintaining comfort where it matters most.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:36 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Bob Cosby View Post
One could make a pretty good arguement that numbers ARE reality, I think. One could also make a good arguement that there is more to comparing a couple of cars than those numbers, which I'm sure is your take - and a quite valid one indeed.

And finally, one could argue that the chart is being mostly ignored because the numbers aren't what the majority of this audience wishes to see.
so as those numbers decline lap by lap that is reality still? I was hoping the 2013 would not have these issues.

as you oil temps rise, brakes fade, etc that is better on the track?

reality does not car about time in a magazine. when you are coming into a corner you have good brake pedal or you don't.

that is the differnt between the internet and reality. you keyboard never has brake fade, oil temp, water temp, etc.

if I want a car for a track day I like the car that actaully will do better that day. does not have to be the fastest.

of all the amercian cars tested the ZL1 is one of the few that does not seem to exibit bad behaviors during a review on the track. with the exeption of Z06 Z07, Zr1 but they usually get reviewed as being harsh at the limit and they are.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
As I stated in another thread I think the chart is mostly being ignored because the chart emphasizes what people already know, as it has 11 effectively repetitive straight line acceleration comparisons.

A chart that displays the results of essentially redundant straight line acceleration comparisons 11 different times is not noteworthy, as people already knew that the GT500 is faster in straight line acceleration, and the fact that the GT500 is faster than the ZL1 in straight line acceleration is simply not news that needs comment.
Ok. For the sake of discussion, and because its very slow here today, I combined all the acceleration stuff (and top speed) into "acceleration", and came up with this (just as useless, but fun) little matrix. It shows "wins" for each category based on the 4 magazine's results:

Acceleration:
GT500 = 4
ZL1 = 0
Not reported = 0
Most "wins" = GT500

Braking:
GT500 = 2
ZL1 = 1
Not reported = 1
Most "wins" = GT500

Skidpad:
GT500 = 1
ZL1 = 1
Not reported = 2
Most "wins" = Tie

Slalom:
GT500 = 1
ZL1 = 2
Not reported = 1
Most "wins" = ZL1

Road Course:
GT500 = 2
ZL1 = 1
Tie = 1
Most "wins" = GT500

Broken down that way, in raw numbers, you end up with the following:
GT500 wins 3 (Accel, braking, Road course)
ZL1 wins 1
Cars "tie" on 1 (skidpad)

Final results = 3-1-1

I leave off gas mileage because its not a performance metric in the same sense as those above, and most folks don't buy these cars for mileage (though it is something I always consider...regardless of what kind of vehicle I'm purchasing).

Of course, those things that can't be measured include ride comfort, level of ability needed to obtain x or y numbers, and what is often called the "feel" of the car. Other things that are often ignored include visibility, available options , how well a car is equipped in base trim, cost of ownership, mpg, warranty, etc.

Let us not forget personal preference on looks and brand loyalty (abundant on BOTH sides...in spades)

As always, we draw our own conclusions.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:58 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by hognutz View Post
so as those numbers decline lap by lap that is reality still? I was hoping the 2013 would not have these issues.
Yes it is, and it could be a consideration for some - no doubt about it.

Quote:
as you oil temps rise, brakes fade, etc that is better on the track?
Of course not. How do we qualify that in an objective manner? Do we have an majority of sources reporting such, or just one here and there?

And who in their right mind is going to "track" either of these cars without changing the brake fluid, pads, tires, etc? EITHER ONE. Sure, to take it out every now again...both could probably do that, and the ZL1 would probably be more confidence inspiring - little doubt about that.

Quote:
reality does not car about time in a magazine. when you are coming into a corner you have good brake pedal or you don't.
No arguement there.

Quote:
that is the differnt between the internet and reality. you keyboard never has brake fade, oil temp, water temp, etc.
Neither does yours.

BTW....I do tend to live in reality. The internet is for fun and information. I can separate reality from the internet. Most folks probably can too.

Quote:
if I want a car for a track day I like the car that actaully will do better that day. does not have to be the fastest.
Agreed - which is why I, personally, would not pick either one as a track car. In or below this price range, I'd get a Boss (and consider the 1LE when it does come out). If I wanted to spend the coin, I'd get a Z06 and call it a day - be it road course, drag strip, or cruising.

Quote:
of all the amercian cars tested the ZL1 is one of the few that does not seem to exibit bad behaviors during a review on the track. with the exeption of Z06 Z07, Zr1 but they usually get reviewed as being harsh at the limit and they are.
You can make that arguement, but if you read the MT comments on the ZL1, it wasn't immune to bad behavior completely (understeer without the nannies), though I agree that the ZL1 would be considered the better road course car by most. For everything else...from my perspective based on my biases and wants....different story.

Don't ask why I'm argueing this....its the internet..

To each their own.
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