Car and Driver Zl1 vs '13 GT500

[PYROLYSIS]

Anybody have a link?

[adam4356]

i get a kick out of the ford camps disbelief.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

You must be a young bull, us older bulls know what's really more important.

Originally Posted by pdari

ride comfort?

Yep !!! I even prefer my woman built for comfort, rather than speed. As the saying goes, a steady pace wins the race ...

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by snapp32e

Interesting. I can't say anything about the GT500 as I haven't experienced driving one but I do know the ZL1 is fun to drive...all the time. I know it's not the fastest car but I still find myself slipping into an exciting and energetic place when I'm behind the wheel. I would love the chance to experience what the Mustang has to offer for comparison but as it stands for me right now I'm glad I drive the ZL1.

And for each of us, regardless of the bit of argueing we do here, that is what matters.

Glad you enjoy your car!

[Cowboy from Hell]

What you have to look at is the "as tested" price in these reviews.

The ZL1 comes in about $58k after options.... The GT500 however seems to come in about $63k... this is due to the reviewers being supplied with the:

SVT Performance package- $3495
Torsen differential
Painted forged-aluminum wheels
Bilstein adjustable dampers
Unique rear springs, instrument cluster, and shift knob

and

SVT Track package- $2995
Engine oil cooler
Differential and transmission coolers w/pumps

I'd like to see a straight up track battle between a base GT500 and base ZL1 as i believe if you dumped the $5k difference in to upping the power of the Zl1 the numbers would change a fair bit!!

Lets face it as soon as you start tuning any car the goal posts move.

[DanSS24]

Originally Posted by Billy Bass

"By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second."

They make it sound like the Mustang was undrivable after a few laps, but there worst time was only a tenth off of the Camaro's best time of 1:39:18.

If the Camaro was 2 tenths slower on the third lap, then the mustang is still lapping faster than the Camaro after the third lap. (1:39:30 to 1:39:38) After this, who knows.

People, people, people...read and try to comprehend the whole article please.

Here's a whole paragraph to understand:

"While the Mustang was a half-second faster around the track than the ZL1 on its best lap, it couldn't repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight. By the end of the second lap, the Shelby had lost more than half of its advantage over the ZL1, turning a 1:39.03. By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second."

By the third lap, the GT500 lost 7/10ths off its first lap time (1:38.69), while the ZL1 never lost more than 2/10ths a lap (so 4/10ths) of its first lap time (1:39.18). So based on my math skills,
what little I have, by the 4th lap (if they kept going), the ZL1 would've been ahead and kept adding time on the GT500.
It was good of MT to say from the beginning about this comparison "Knowing full well that we're about to anger at least half of you"

Being a Camaro guy, yeah i'm upset that the ZL1 didn't win in all the tests, but i'm still getting my Camaro. Plus I like modding my cars.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

I'd like to see a straight up track battle between a base GT500 and base ZL1 as i believe if you dumped the $5k difference in to upping the power of the Zl1 the numbers would change a fair bit!!

Lets face it as soon as you start tuning any car the goal posts move.

The difference is, the GT500 offers those packages from the factory. It's not a modified car. Mod for mod is anyone's game. I do agree, they should do some tests with the base GT500 just to see the difference in lap times. They did the same thing with the base GT vs. Brembo packaged GTs as well.

[Char1ieone]

Originally Posted by pdari

ride comfort?

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by DanSS24

"By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second."

By the third lap, the GT500 lost 7/10ths off its first lap time (1:38.69), while the ZL1 never lost more than 2/10ths a lap (so 4/10ths) of its first lap time (1:39.18). So based on my math skills, what little I have, by the 4th lap (if they kept going), the ZL1 would've been ahead and kept adding time on the GT500.

I read the above Motor Trend review as stating that by the third lap the ZL1 was ahead, and that the ZL1 never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second from its first lap time.

[Billy Bass]

I think they are trying to say that eventually the Camaro will catch up due to the Mustang fading away. After 3 laps the Mustang would still be half a second ahead total (Even if the Camaro ran its best lap 3 consecutive times), but the Camaro would start setting faster lap times and eventually get ahead. It would be nice to see a test for a longer duration and see when exactly the ZL1 would catch up and how much fade there would be for both cars after say 10 - 15 laps.

Mustang:
Lap 1 - 1:38:69
Lap 2 - 1:39:03
Lap 3 - 1:39:30

Total: 4:57.02


Camaro:
Lap 1 - 1:39:18
Lap 2 - 1:39:18
Lap 3 - 1:39:18

Total: 4:57.54

[nanokpsi]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

Another young bull ...

Yes. I am 32 and hemroid free I manage to daily drive my GT500 and the bumpy ride has not caused me to become bedridden.

[nanokpsi]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I couldn't not care less what a group of kids thinks about my car. I grew out of that stage of my life about 40 years ago.


I want my sports car, which is a convertible, to be comfortable, have good visibility, and have excellent handling on the deteriorating roads in California.

If you do not care what other people say about your car, why are you trying so hard to defend your stance over the internet? It would seem that you care what some other guy thinks that you will likely never even meet.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by nanokpsi

If you do not care what other people say about your car, why are you trying so hard to defend your stance over the internet? It would seem that you care what some other guy thinks that you will likely never even meet.

I like to prevent poor logic and misinformation from spreading when I can.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by evolve

How many laps is the ring?

more like how many miles is the ring? ohh over 12 miles this was a 6.6mile test and the car was already showing signs of issues.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Faster is not always better.

True. You'd really love a Miata.






I jest, but actually for a fun day at the track, the MX-5, albeit slow was one of the most fun cars I have ever tossed around a track. More fun that any Ponycar if I'm honest.

[shockandawe]

Once GM does the H.P. upgrade on the ZL1, it will beat The Mustang in every category.

[eolson]

It's obvious these cars are so close in these comparisons that it really is what you love to drive. The fact that the GT500 lacked brake ducting was surprising to me, so that is something they need to work out for better fade resistance.

We'll see what adjustments both cars get next year, but this match up is awesome, both cars seem about 3 seconds slower on LS than the ZR1 also driven by Pobst. I'm amazed that two sport coupe muscle cars are able to do this. Awesome day. Erik

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by hognutz

more like how many miles is the ring? ohh over 12 miles this was a 6.6mile test and the car was already showing signs of issues.

Maybe that's why they never posted any times.

[eolson]

Well, I guess they have to design in some brake ducting for the GT500 next year, or the after market will. Seems crazy that they would not lock down the brake behavior as the design progressed. I wonder if SVT will issue a reason???

Just put the brake ducts where those useless fog lights are and your in business. Erik

[USMC NV ZL1]

Originally Posted by shockandawe

Once GM does the H.P. upgrade on the ZL1, it will beat The Mustang in every category.

Or we could see what the LPE700 or HPE700 packages would do.

[PYROLYSIS]

I still can't find the Car and Driver comparison anywhere on Al Gore's internets. Couldn't find it from their website either.

[Mr. Unassailable]

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

What you have to look at is the "as tested" price in these reviews.

The ZL1 comes in about $58k after options.... The GT500 however seems to come in about $63k... this is due to the reviewers being supplied with the:

SVT Performance package- $3495
Torsen differential
Painted forged-aluminum wheels
Bilstein adjustable dampers
Unique rear springs, instrument cluster, and shift knob

and

SVT Track package- $2995
Engine oil cooler
Differential and transmission coolers w/pumps

I'd like to see a straight up track battle between a base GT500 and base ZL1 as i believe if you dumped the $5k difference in to upping the power of the Zl1 the numbers would change a fair bit!!

Lets face it as soon as you start tuning any car the goal posts move.

Inside line - http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...ison-test.html

"In our instrumented testing, the Mustang (base price $54,995) was the drag strip king, while the Camaro (base price $56,295) woke up from its nap and took the handling segments. Then we took these two beasts on our favorite mountain road, where the ZL1 simply "dropped trou" on the Shelby, as Senior Editor Josh Jacquot so eloquently put it. "

I'm not looking up the others, as you failed to look up any of them and just quoted some prices of a sales sheet that you THINK were used.
edit: curiosity got me.
MT - ZL1 then GT500 -- PRICE AS TESTED $56,365 $64,770 Cant find the C&D, I did see that the ZL1 was 56 but couldnt find the GT500 as tested price.

Originally Posted by shockandawe

Once GM does the H.P. upgrade on the ZL1, it will beat The Mustang in every category.

Once Ford does the IRS upgrade on the GT500, it will beat The Camaro in every category.

Originally Posted by 2012conv.rs/ss

Or we could see what the LPE700 or HPE700 packages would do.

And we could compare the ZL1 to the Super Snake (800hp).... ??




Have you guys really had that much GM coolaid? I love my Camaro but I'll never be so GM drunk to believe it's something its not.

[BlackieRay]

I'm not impressed by the numbers for either car. They are both too heavy to be performers. Even by 1970s standards they are heavy. I love the engines and the styling, but that's where it ends for me. I'll wait a couple of years until Camaro6 and the new Mustang hit the dealer showrooms.

[OldScoolCamaro]

All major mags report basically same results. When given the opportunity to be critical, they have taken the high road and left the obvious to the imagination of the reader. Ford is winner at the quarter mile, all other areas and metrics are clear cut GM winners. Chevy has the engineer's, the forward thinking, and a clear cut advantage in building an overall superior design...plain and simple. Mere HP alone with antiquated or "new" technology" as touted by the Blue Oval gang is ill equipped to handle the additional HP as delivered. Ford cannot touch all the bases like the ZL1 can. The Mustang is almost 300 pounds lighter, with a 82 HP advantge. It should be more than a .5 difference in the 1/4" by any standards stock VS stock. I think the LSA at such a disadvantge proves the Chevy technology clearly dominates the Ford because it puts more down in a controlled way, or there is less parasitic gear/drivetrain power loss. Lap after lap, mile after mile, time after time.....the ZL1 can bring it all day long, with the ride quality, consistancy, and comfort, to a whole new level. It's called groundbreaking. There is such a fine blend with it's advanced design, refined operabillity and an overall sense of being "dailed in", it beckins the driver to stay in the car. Disney World or Six Flags can't compete with the excitement and adrenaline factor this rides produces. It will be some time before Ford can remotely come close to all that the ZL1 does across all levels. Ford should get some help in the engineering department beyond engine builders, otherwise they need to bring a lunch to take on Chevy.

[Fenderaddict2]

The Engineers at Ford made an antiquated chassis run with a modern marvel and created a monster of a motor all without taxpayer funds. I'd say GM needs to hire these guys.