Car and Driver Zl1 vs '13 GT500

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by hognutz

I love how to biased people comfort is a bad thing ha ha. so if you can lap similar times and not get thrashed around as bad it is a bad thing.

I have had the gen mustang you have in your sig with full maximum motorsports supention and it road like ass wile handling worse than my vette.

so was that supposed to be some kind of Plus to the car that my fillings would practically fall out of my teeth on bad roads ha ha. the extra road noise from the sphircal bearins was some kind of enhanment to me car.

that was the bigest think I loved about my corvette over my mustang was more grip and more comfort. A crappy riding car is only a plus if it really gives you and advantage.

Don't get me wrong I loved my mustang and it was fun to drive but there are downsides to stiff suspension lets no pretend that for daily driven car is good thing. I also get you can live with it. I drove my mustang for years like that. It was just something I kind of had to live with in that chasis I didn't really want the car to ride that bad.

It's a wonder nobody has said anything about "Real men like a car that beats them to death and you have to be a muscle bound freak to drive it for more than 3 laps on a road course."
This thread is all too funny anyway.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

It's a wonder nobody has said anything about "Real men like a car that beats them to death and you have to be a muscle bound freak to drive it for more than 3 laps on a road course."
This thread is all too funny anyway.

The thing is, what i have read does not say the GT500s ride is really horrible or that bad, just the ZL1 rides smoother and more sophisticated.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Stew

The thing is, what i have read does not say the GT500s ride is really horrible or that bad, just the ZL1 rides smoother and more sophisticated.

I may have to watch the video again but I thought the MT reviewer said the Shelby was a handful and you had to muscle it through the corners, along with complaining about the rough ride.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I may have to watch the video again but I thought the MT reviewer said the Shelby was a handful and you had to muscle it through the corners, along with complaining about the rough ride.

Don't forget the bad vertical motion of the Shelby, that means it handles bumps very bad.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I may have to watch the video again but I thought the MT reviewer said the Shelby was a handful and you had to muscle it through the corners, along with complaining about the rough ride.

I was thinking of the car and driver and the street, not any track, maybe each mag seems to be writing slightly, to massively different results.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by hognutz

I love how to biased people...

Who here is NOT biased?

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Stew

I was thinking of the car and driver and the street, not any track, maybe each mag seems to be writing slightly, to massively different results.

Actually when they have picked a winner by preference haven't they all selected the ZL1 as their choice?

[ZL1terminator]

I'm not biased, I own a zl1 and love it, my good friend who is also not biased, is gettin a new Shelby cause he loves stangs, I'm sure I'm going to be grinning ear to ear in the shelby and he grins ear to ear in my car, and I'm just starting to mod mine now!

He as all people who have diven with me said the ride quality for the car and what it's capable of as a track car is insane, cruising on the highways is sooo relaxing!

When he gets his I'm probly going to be laughing like a school kid and goin to be overwhelmed with the power, I could have gotten a gt500 but I wanted the camaro for myself not anyone else or bragging rights, I'm going to drag race it, autocross and drift events to just for fun, which I'm sure that IRS setup with the mr2 suspension was my better choice :-)

Both are animals, Shelby bigger growl stock, which doesn't mean anything when mods are limitless!

There are 2 things I'm
Confused on here tho, ppl who are saying there is a 120hp advantage, sorry there just isn't, I've seen 500+whp on stock ZL1's and 580-600whp on the Shelby, dont gets wrong here that's still a fair margin, just saying!

And last thing which I'm still lost on and always drove me a little bonkers about stangs, what's up with the donut rear tires with such a large amount of hp, I'm beyond impressed it does 11.xx @12x ... Should be even quicker!

Shelby needs a stiffer rear to with that power thing squats and jumps all over the place, you realllllyyy see it on the 9 second run
Videos!!!

Um that's about all for my rant, impressed with both non the less, don't forget ppl these cara are this cheap and are capable of a lot more for very cheap and can smoke things 3 times the cost easily haha :-)!

[roorback]

One thing is not debatable....

Going to be a lot of good used Camaro's while people jump ship. Some just want newer, bigger, faster and don't care the current car is just fine.

[gbosh]

Want a faster ZL1 in the 1/4 mile? Take off the belly pan and put on a regular hood. All of these items cause down force too make the car a great track car,but hurts it on the straight runs. What wins road track races is a car that is easy too drive and any car that is hard to control is going to fatigue the driver is going to be the loser as more mistakes will take a toll on performace of the driver. When all the experts comment on how the above has nothing too do with drag racing just look at the COPO and why doesn't it have a down force hood or pan under the front end? Because it will slow it down!

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

The government loan that Ford Credit received had nothing to do with leveling the playing field.


As I mentioned before the material difference between Ford's loans, and GM's and Chrysler's loans is the timing of when those loans were needed.

Ford needed the loans first, in 2006, before the American financial system was on the verge of collapse in the Fall of 2008 and was, therefore, able to obtain loans from American banks which were willing to lend at that time. GM and Chrysler, however, need money later, in 2009, in the aftermath of the financial crisis when banks weren't willing to lend and the only viable option was to obtain money from the U.S. Government.

It's spreading misinformation to state the GM and Chrysler "screwed up" more than Ford did. The entire U.S. automobile industry "screwed up." The difference was not in the management teams of the companies. The difference was in the timing of when loan money was required.

Oh, come on. Old GM's management was a bust. Mulally is responsible for one of the greatest turnarounds in decades. Mulally recognized the necessity for cash reserves and car-based, rather than truck, restructuring (see "the way forward") pre-collapse and benefited from it. GM also posted massive losses and it seems you don't know that GM also refinanced almost $6 Billion in loans in 2006. Ford management simply did better. Much of the money GM received can NOT be considered a loan as the Fed did not, and does not, expect it to be repaid in full. The shortcomings of Old GM has little to no impact on the quality of current GM vehicles, but to say it's misinformation to state that GM and Chrysler screwed up more than Ford did. . . is misinformation. They did. Ask any financial analyst, they will tell you exactly the same thing. Mulally worked miracles with Ford while GM was run into the ground by sub-par leadership. We are discussing cars here and everybody has their preferences. To say either company makes better cars would be naive and subjective, but there is no question in anyone with investing experience's mind that Ford management after Mulally entered in 2006 was way, way, WAY beyond GM management in 2006-2008.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by ZL1terminator

I'm not biased, I own a zl1 and love it, my good friend who is also not biased, is gettin a new Shelby cause he loves stangs,...

Sorry, but we're all biased. Me, you, your buddy, and everybody here. Some are certainly more brand loyal than others (or dare I say 'fanboys'...), but everyone here makes there choices based on their own personal preferences....ie....biases.

But its all good.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Sorry, but we're all biased. Me, you, your buddy, and everybody here. Some are certainly more brand loyal than others (or dare I say 'fanboys'...), but everyone here makes there choices based on their own personal preferences....ie....biases.

But its all good.

I love it! My friend is not biased, but he loves Stangs.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Long Carbine

Really? From what I have read most were happy the GT500 beat the ZL1 on a road course despite Al Oppenheimer claiming the GT500 needed "race car parts" to stay up with a ZL1, the only thing left the ZL1 was considered better. And it aint despite the GT500 having a SRA.

The overwhelming majority of these cars will never see a road course nor could their owners drive them to their limits and not end up stuck back of a church.

The 2013 GT500 is a far superior car.

And, My dads bigger than your dad. Really???

Fact is the Mustang is very long in tooth, and is ready to be replace. Bottom line Ford did miracles with an outdated chassis!

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

... but to say it's misinformation to state that GM and Chrysler screwed up more than Ford did. . . is misinformation. They did.

You are correct. Thank you for pointing out my misstatement.

What I should have stated is that it's misinformation to state that GM and Chrysler screwed up and Ford did not, which is what the poster to which I was responding appeared to imply.

The facts are that the entire American automobile industry screwed up. Ford less so than GM and Chrysler.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 101fng

i'm not sure what the alternative brake setup is...

during braking, weight is transfered to the front tires (where the brembos are), right? the front is also where we steer, so wouldn't we want the the brembos up front so that we actually bite into the pavement during hard braking on turns?

or am i way out there?

I'd feel cheated...

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

oh..well here's my rating.

GT500 = Poo on a stick.
ZL1 = king of the muscle cars.

Anyone wants to dispute that, bring your GT500 poo stick over and we'll do some side by side.

Honestly. The Ford is the better Muscle Car. The ZL1 is the better car and the better value.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

You are correct. Thank you for pointing out my misstatement.

What I should have stated is that it's misinformation to state that GM and Chrysler screwed up and Ford did not, which is what the poster to which I was responding appeared to imply.

The facts are that the entire American automobile industry screwed up. Ford less so than GM and Chrysler.

Oh, I agree. Ford was in terrible trouble with WCF Jr. until Mulally took over in 2006 and began the turnaround. I didn't mean to jump on you in that last post, but I feel Ford's management deserves incredible credit for their turnaround. Ford's recovery is due to sound financial and economic decision making by Alan Mulally and Old GM's management was no comparison. When Mulally mortgaged all of Ford's assets in 2006, he even stated he wanted to use the funds to restructure and create a cash flow cushion for an upcoming recession. It was brilliant business at it's best and should be recognized as such.

[dmginc]

i would hope for an extra $8,000 bucks the Shelby was faster...at the same time I would think for that extra 8k they would have added brake cooling ducts...and if a ZL1 owner spent 8k in mods (making price equal) it would probably keep pace if not beat the Shelby.

either way both cars are awesome, it comes down to what a person wants to do. If you are a 1/4 mile person a Shelby is the better choice, if you are more into road racing then the ZL1 is the better choice.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by dmginc

If you are a 1/4 mile person a Shelby is the better choice, if you are more into road racing then the ZL1 is the better choice.

If you are a road racing person you're not buying a 4100lb. supercharged car in the first place.

[islander033]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

... Anyone wants to dispute that, bring your GT500 poo stick over and we'll do some side by side.

If you ever make it to AB, we can hook up a gopro or two.
Loser buys the beers.

[SilverSSuv]

Wow, these arguments are mind blowing. How come the 2012 ZL1 never got to be compared against the 2012 GT500? Ford gets a clean pass and gets to use the counter punch?? We'll see how it goes when GM gets to counterpunch.

[HiroProX]

I guess I'll have an interesting perspective as a long time Ford guy who just a couple of days ago switched to Chevy, a 2012 Camaro ZL1 to be exact.

I like the 2013 Mustang GT. Its an extremely good car, with excellent handling for its price. I like it better than the SS, but my wife is a Chevy girl so when it came time for her car, 2012 2SS 45th Anniversary Edition convertible was the decision.

Then came time for me to get my new car. I test drove a 2013 GT500 and a 2012 ZL1. Only racing I do is rally and when I'm vacationing up north, a turn or two on a local drag strip. My main driving is long-distance roadtrips. So even at 37, ride comfort and road manners are a big concern. My last turn behind the wheel of a GM muscle car was a '91 Firebird Convertible with the HO 305, which was the replacement for my beloved '66 Mustang convertible. The two main memories of the 'bird were excessive wheel spin and a bone-jarring ride. Now fast forward to 2012, I decided to give the ZL1 a shot for two reasons. First, the Edmund's review. Prior to that, I'd never have considered a Camaro as a viable car for me. Secondly, my wife's SS surprised me. It's not a ZL1 obviously, but it is a VAST improvement over the old F-body cars.

But the final factor was the test drive. The GT500 reminded me of everything I disliked about the Firebird. There was no way I'd finish a 2000 mile trip in that car in anything resembling a good mood. The ZL1 on the other hand, was the nicest handling, most comfortable American-made car I've ever driven. But just for refference, the dealership where I bought the ZL1 had a CTS-V available, so I test drove it. I still preferred the ZL1. Nothing funnier than signing the papers on a brand new Camaro while wearing my "Ride the Pony" t-shirt.

Now here's the takeaway on this. Ford makes some good cars. But that does not mean there isn't room for improvement. GM has spent a lot of time and money improving handling and ride quality, and it shows. And looking at the cost of newer muscle cars, I think GM has the right approach, because when you hit that price level, it's not just Chevy vs. Ford. You have those Germans showing up with the sporty offerings from Mercedes Benz and BMW, and both of them made their brands based on superior handling and confort without sacrificing performance. And you have the Japanese showing up with stuff like the RSX-R and 370Z. With that kind of competition for the same amount of money, a modern American muscle car has to bring more to the table than the fastest ETs in a straight line. The ZL1 delivers that something extra. The ZL1 has been the first new car that gave me that same sense of awe that my old '66 topless pony did, and this time I don't have to tear down and rebuild the whole car to get it.

Yeah, GM got a federal bailout. But since then they've started turning out some very good cars. Just about every new GM model has been a gigantic improvement over what came before it, and political BS aside, I'm glad to see them once again making cars that are as good as their great products of the past. Ford has done some things right as well, namely bringing DOHC VVT to a production V8 engine. Something I'd love to see GM do as well. But in the end, it's not about parts, but the whole car. And in spite of its mix of a pushrod V8 with a suspension straight out of high-tech world-class luxury performance cars, for my purposes, the ZL1 is the better option.

[Bob Cosby]

A dealer let you test drive a 2013 GT500? I would consider myself EXTREMELY lucky to have the chance....it is virtually unheard of. I'm originally from NE Texas....may I ask what dealer?

Enjoy your new car!

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by HiroProX

I guess I'll have an interesting perspective as a long time Ford guy who just a couple of days ago switched to Chevy, a 2012 Camaro ZL1 to be exact.

I like the 2013 Mustang GT. Its an extremely good car, with excellent handling for its price. I like it better than the SS, but my wife is a Chevy girl so when it came time for her car, 2012 2SS 45th Anniversary Edition convertible was the decision.

Then came time for me to get my new car. I test drove a 2013 GT500 and a 2012 ZL1. Only racing I do is rally and when I'm vacationing up north, a turn or two on a local drag strip. My main driving is long-distance roadtrips. So even at 37, ride comfort and road manners are a big concern. My last turn behind the wheel of a GM muscle car was a '91 Firebird Convertible with the HO 305, which was the replacement for my beloved '66 Mustang convertible. The two main memories of the 'bird were excessive wheel spin and a bone-jarring ride. Now fast forward to 2012, I decided to give the ZL1 a shot for two reasons. First, the Edmund's review. Prior to that, I'd never have considered a Camaro as a viable car for me. Secondly, my wife's SS surprised me. It's not a ZL1 obviously, but it is a VAST improvement over the old F-body cars.

But the final factor was the test drive. The GT500 reminded me of everything I disliked about the Firebird. There was no way I'd finish a 2000 mile trip in that car in anything resembling a good mood. The ZL1 on the other hand, was the nicest handling, most comfortable American-made car I've ever driven. But just for refference, the dealership where I bought the ZL1 had a CTS-V available, so I test drove it. I still preferred the ZL1. Nothing funnier than signing the papers on a brand new Camaro while wearing my "Ride the Pony" t-shirt.

Now here's the takeaway on this. Ford makes some good cars. But that does not mean there isn't room for improvement. GM has spent a lot of time and money improving handling and ride quality, and it shows. And looking at the cost of newer muscle cars, I think GM has the right approach, because when you hit that price level, it's not just Chevy vs. Ford. You have those Germans showing up with the sporty offerings from Mercedes Benz and BMW, and both of them made their brands based on superior handling and confort without sacrificing performance. And you have the Japanese showing up with stuff like the RSX-R and 370Z. With that kind of competition for the same amount of money, a modern American muscle car has to bring more to the table than the fastest ETs in a straight line. The ZL1 delivers that something extra. The ZL1 has been the first new car that gave me that same sense of awe that my old '66 topless pony did, and this time I don't have to tear down and rebuild the whole car to get it.

Yeah, GM got a federal bailout. But since then they've started turning out some very good cars. Just about every new GM model has been a gigantic improvement over what came before it, and political BS aside, I'm glad to see them once again making cars that are as good as their great products of the past. Ford has done some things right as well, namely bringing DOHC VVT to a production V8 engine. Something I'd love to see GM do as well. But in the end, it's not about parts, but the whole car. And in spite of its mix of a pushrod V8 with a suspension straight out of high-tech world-class luxury performance cars, for my purposes, the ZL1 is the better option.

Thanks for this unbiased review, it seems you are in agreement with all the professional reviews to date. Enjoy your ZL1