Car and Driver Zl1 vs '13 GT500

[evolve]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Honestly. The Ford is the better Muscle Car. The ZL1 is the better car and the better value.

Depends on what youre using it for man. Track =Z, strip = GT, hwy = either

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SilverSSuv

Wow, these arguments are mind blowing. How come the 2012 ZL1 never got to be compared against the 2012 GT500? Ford gets a clean pass and gets to use the counter punch?? We'll see how it goes when GM gets to counterpunch.

I believ the cars were released within a few weeks of each other. Ford new model years have always come out super early, hell in may I kne people getting 13 mustangs already. The2012 gt500 was technically a year old car by Thetis,e the magazines got to do their head to heads so they just waited the extra week for the13. I also don't think gm is going to up the power significantly for the 13 they may just wait till the new platform

[2012ZL1]

Ford only came out early because their 2012 was beaten by the ZL1 hands down.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Ford only came out early because their 2012 was beaten by the ZL1 hands down.

Actually the GT500 came out the same time as the rest of the 13s and at the same time they usually come out every year....... GM was just REALLY late coming out with the ZL1, thanks partially to that wonderful QC hold....

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

The government loan that Ford Credit received had nothing to do with leveling the playing field.


As I mentioned before the material difference between Ford's loans, and GM's and Chrysler's loans is the timing of when those loans were needed.

Ford needed the loans first, in 2006, before the American financial system was on the verge of collapse in the Fall of 2008 and was, therefore, able to obtain loans from American banks which were willing to lend at that time. GM and Chrysler, however, need money later, in 2009, in the aftermath of the financial crisis when banks weren't willing to lend and the only viable option was to obtain money from the U.S. Government.

It's spreading misinformation to state the GM and Chrysler "screwed up" more than Ford did. The entire U.S. automobile industry "screwed up." The difference was not in the management teams of the companies. The difference was in the timing of when loan money was required.

As car designers manufacturers and marketers they all screwed us the consumer, but Ford was smart enough to arrange financing from the usual channels, the banks and government along with private investment. The leveraged the company and brand and made smart management hires and product development choices the others did not. Sadly Ford still seem to be hampered by a small minded dealer network. There was in fact a deal done with the government after Ford came out against the bailout especially with ads. They soon disappeared. You don't know all the facts unless you are privy to all the information.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

IMHO no adjustment is needed to ZL1's ride or handling, 40-50 HP is all it needs to win in the 1/4 mile factory stock. A mere enhancement to the LSA, which could be a stage two factory upgrade, at minimal cost. No brake fade, overheating of brake pads or hardwear in hot lap after lap with subsequent fading times such as it's counterpart, no bone jarring body jolts from an antequated suspension that will wear out the driver , so comfortable one can stay in the car all day long and drive 'till the cows come home in total comfort. Nice ride Chevy!

A simple CAI and pulley would possibly be the only upgrades it needs. *cough cough GM*

[ZL1terminator]

Originally Posted by islander033

If you ever make it to AB, we can hook up a gopro or two.
Loser buys the beers.

Where at in Alberta, im up in fort Mc, since we dont have Texas mile up here in the north are you headin to cold lake mile this year?

And ya my buddy loves stangs cause he always liked them and he loves my car and has nothin bad to say about it, so what's that, sort of a hypocritical, Biased oxymoron?

Don't think about that to hard haha I listen to a lot of Steven wright go figure lol

Or better off I am debating on buying a gtr second hand or a new 2013 Shelby as my next project and have the ZL1 already, please tell me where my biased-ass-is? :-)

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Ford only came out early because their 2012 was beaten by the ZL1 hands down.

Actually, it came out later in the year than the previous model years of the same car.

[eric n]

When all major magazines said the 5.0 was superior to the SS, very very few on this site seemed compelled to buy that it might be the truth. That said, The ZL is clearly SUPERIOR to the Shelby GT500 as an ALL AROUND PONY/MUSCLE CAR! The engineering marvel that is the ZL suspension makes it an easier performance car to drive and enjoy.

For me personally I would likely go with the Shelby, I like the looks (absolutely subjective). I'm a mustang guy and I'm more likely to rip an acceleration run than drive a road course. Clearly my skill set is limited.

But ULTIMATELY GM has produced what is clearly a better product and a car any car guy would be lucky as hell to drive.

Bravo to the AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY. Way to raise the bar guys.

[islander033]

Originally Posted by ZL1terminator

Where at in Alberta, im up in fort Mc, since we dont have Texas mile up here in the north are you headin to cold lake mile this year?...

I don't plan on going much further North than Edmonton with my car this year, that might only happen once.

If you get to Calgary this summer hit me up.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Ford only came out early because their 2012 was beaten by the ZL1 hands down.

Ford wasn't early, they were even slightly late. The ZL1 was late even before the QC hold. And who benchmarks a new car against an existing model? You benchmark past that. At least there should be no excuses for the 1LE, as it coming to market well after the '12 Boss and the '13 is. Mechanically unchanged. The Chevy better walk all over my car because no room for excuses there.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by eric n

When all major magazines said the 5.0 was superior to the SS, very very few on this site seemed compelled to buy that it might be the truth. That said, The ZL is clearly SUPERIOR to the Shelby GT500 as an ALL AROUND PONY/MUSCLE CAR! The engineering marvel that is the ZL suspension makes it an easier performance car to drive and enjoy.

For me personally I would likely go with the Shelby, I like the looks (absolutely subjective). I'm a mustang guy and I'm more likely to rip an acceleration run than drive a road course. Clearly my skill set is limited.

But ULTIMATELY GM has produced what is clearly a better product and a car any car guy would be lucky as hell to drive.

Bravo to the AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY. Way to raise the bar guys.

[evolve]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Ford wasn't early, they were even slightly late. The ZL1 was late even before the QC hold. And who benchmarks a new car against an existing model? You benchmark past that. At least there should be no excuses for the 1LE, as it coming to market well after the '12 Boss and the '13 is. Echanucally unchanged. The Chevy better walk all over my car because no room for excuses there.

Cant wiat to see this matchup!

[Angrybird 12]

Saw a 68 Shelby GT350 today at the gas station I talked to the owner and complimented him on this car, he returned the compliment and I asked what he thought of the 13 GT500, he said it was a fast car but lacked the personality and the looks of his. I agreed with him and wished him a good day.

[Monsterpost]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Ford only came out early because their 2012 was beaten by the ZL1 hands down.

GM was super late with zl1; took them that long to get it done. After the way things have turned out GM should of waited longer so they could see the changes Ford made to the 2013 GT500; like that would of helped.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by MY1STCAMAR0

A simple CAI and pulley would possibly be the only upgrades it needs. *cough cough GM*

....a stage two factory upgrade, as offered previously by GM so there is precedence on that which should preclude any internal argument against it, is all that it will take....flash tune, CAI, pulley, voila, perhaps another trick or two by the GM engineering wizards. The LSA runs as is from day 1 with Caddy. Time for some factory tweaking, much room for growth within there is.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Saw a 68 Shelby GT350 today at the gas station I talked to the owner and complimented him on this car, he returned the compliment and I asked what he thought of the 13 GT500, he said it was a fast car but lacked the personality and the looks of his. I agreed with him and wished him a good day.

Exactly why I would trade my Boss for a fully restored '69 Cougar Eliminator in a heartbeat.

[eric n]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Exactly why I would trade my Boss for a fully restored '69 Cougar Eliminator in a heartbeat.

I get your reasoning, but only if the Boss wasn't your daily driver. I've done classic everyday and it can be problematic.

[doc7000]

Both cars are great/solid cars, both have their pros and both have their cons.

The ZL1 Camaro has won all 4 of the comparison test that it has been in, and this is without packing the most power.

I know that many Ford fans are really upset about this, though this comes down to not how fast the car gets the job done but how well it does it. Pretty much all of the reviews have stated that the ZL1 Camaro leaves muscle car arena in favor of the sports car arena.

Here is my issue though, the GT500 gets its performance advantage purely from having a better power to weight ratio gained mostly by having 82BHP more. The easiest thing to overcome is the horsepower disadvantage, as horsepower is pretty easy to come by. GM already makes a more powerful 6.2L V-8 (LS9) and the after market will add plenty of horsepower past that point. Though at that point we are talking apples to oranges (stock vs non stock), though at the end of the day it looks bad when Ford has to bring 662BHP to the equation and still not win. Think how these reviews would go if the GT500 kept its 540BHP engine or even only went up to lets say 580-600BHP.

Though Ford fans will continue to buy the Mustang over anything else, and everyone else in America will continue to buy the Camaro so its all the same.

[Taser Deployed]

Originally Posted by eric n

When all major magazines said the 5.0 was superior to the SS, very very few on this site seemed compelled to buy that it might be the truth. That said, The ZL is clearly SUPERIOR to the Shelby GT500 as an ALL AROUND PONY/MUSCLE CAR! The engineering marvel that is the ZL suspension makes it an easier performance car to drive and enjoy.

For me personally I would likely go with the Shelby, I like the looks (absolutely subjective). I'm a mustang guy and I'm more likely to rip an acceleration run than drive a road course. Clearly my skill set is limited.

But ULTIMATELY GM has produced what is clearly a better product and a car any car guy would be lucky as hell to drive.

Bravo to the AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY. Way to raise the bar guys.

Sir I will agree and say that they are both Superior Cars. Take your pick and I truly believe you're winning with either. I love the SS but the ZL1 is a completely different beast. I haven't driven a GT500 or 5.0 but I'm pretty sure the difference in driving them is night and day. If you can afford the Shelby or ZL1 than you can't go wrong.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by evolve

Depends on what youre using it for man. Track =Z, strip = GT

Hence my statements.

[eric n]

Perfectly reasonable post until your last line. Like saying chevy fans will continue to buy the Camaro and everyone else in america will buy fords.

News flash. Most American's will not buy either car. Everyone??? Really?? The ZL is amazing and did indeed win every comparison test I have seen. Clearly it is the best all round drivers car. But then the 5.0 won every comparison over the SS..... It was clearly the best all round car, did that mean Everyone in America would buy the 5.0??? Not even close. The losing car (the SS still a great car) absolutely outsold the mustang pretty much every month. America will buy civics, accords, f150's ..... Many muscle car lovers will buy Chargers and Challengers.... It's a matter of personal loyalty, taste and likes.


ros and both have their cons.

The ZL1 Camaro has won all 4 of the comparison test that it has been in, and this is without packing the most power.

I know that many Ford fans are really upset about this, though this comes down to not how fast the car gets the job done but how well it does it. Pretty much all of the reviews have stated that the ZL1 Camaro leaves muscle car arena in favor of the sports car arena.

Here is my issue though, the GT500 gets its performance advantage purely from having a better power to weight ratio gained mostly by having 82BHP more. The easiest thing to overcome is the horsepower disadvantage, as horsepower is pretty easy to come by. GM already makes a more powerful 6.2L V-8 (LS9) and the after market will add plenty of horsepower past that point. Though at that point we are talking apples to oranges (stock vs non stock), though at the end of the day it looks bad when Ford has to bring 662BHP to the equation and still not win. Think how these reviews would go if the GT500 kept its 540BHP engine or even only went up to lets say 580-600BHP.

Though Ford fans will continue to buy the Mustang over anything else, and everyone else in America will continue to buy the Camaro so its all the same.[/QUOTE]

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

At least there should be no excuses for the 1LE, as it coming to market well after the '12 Boss and the '13 is. Mechanically unchanged. The Chevy better walk all over my car because no room for excuses there.

BOSS: 3631 lb (3636-LS) with 444 hp = 8.18 lb/hp

1SS-1LE: 3920 lb. with 426 hp = 9.20 lb/hp

11% in favor of BOSS

GT + 55R (Brembo Racing Pkg): 3618 lb with 420 hp = 8.61 lb/hp

THIS would be the 1LE's direct competitor!

There's a reason the 1LE ISN'T called Z28...because a proper Camaro answer to the BOSS is still unannounced.

[shaffe]

I agree with your line of thinking, because the Boss is a seperate model where the 1LE seems like a performance pack.

But didn't GM say its direct competitor for this was the Boss? I agree with your line of thinking like i said but if GM is targeting the Boss, then its hard to say it shouldn't be compaired to X car

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I agree with your line of thinking, because the Boss is a seperate model where the 1LE seems like a performance pack.

But didn't GM say its direct competitor for this was the Boss? I agree with your line of thinking like i said but if GM is targeting the Boss, then its hard to say it shouldn't be compaired to X car

GM quotation required...

GM Press Release:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212140

Sub-3:00 lap @ VIR is not DIRECTLY compared to anything or anyone...