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Old 07-01-2012, 08:40 AM   #1
Mr.R
 
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ZL1 heat = power drain

I've noticed the engine compartment and parts in there get extremely hot after a good drive. For example, the air box gets so hot that I can't hold my hand on it . That to me that equals very high intake temperatures with the current box design.

I've also noticed a significant power drain after 30 min of harder driving. I'd say at least 50hp are lost because of heat.

I'm seriously considering the open filter/metal wall around it as it at least won't accumulate heat from the box too. I'm also thinking of a 160 thermostat and the intercooler bigger reservoir, without getting into crazy mods....

Any other ideas?
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:46 AM   #2
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If you are doing a lot of stoplight to stoplight driving, adding fans on the intercooler is a big help - at speed they dont do anything, but for cruising they help. Also, the stock intercooler pump is speed controlled by the ECU and doesnt flow much - add a better pump with a thermal switch.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:49 AM   #3
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We are having record heat rite now in most parts of the country.

ALL cars suffer HP loss when its a blast furnace .Iv'e noticed it myself on my car and I have a huge stock dual pass intercooler due to my Harrop Supercharger being designed in Australia where triple digit temps are the norm.

Wait till the fall and it will wake back up....No matter what you do rite now, when the ambient air is around 100* nothing will change.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:49 AM   #4
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Youre right about the heat reducing the HP. I think the aftermarket airbox is going to heat up too, but you might also consider a higher capacity IC pump. There's a thread about it in here. This would be a good combo with the larger intercooler.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:50 AM   #5
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My advice (which I kinda know a bit about heat soak as does most 03-04 cobra owners) is to look into an aftermarket heat exchanger and pump and possibly fans to support. Another great option is to port the blower. This will lower your IATs (good for cooler temps and more power).
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:00 PM   #6
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Here is something along with adding RedLine Water Wetter that I did to keep my car running well in extreme temps and it worked better than stock. Throttle peddle feels much firmer even after the 3 hour drive in 90+ degree temps today and peppy is heck from stop lights.
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:25 PM   #7
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Is that a MAF cooler? Good idea!
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:42 PM   #8
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That's very smart - thanks!
What CAI are you using?
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:51 PM   #9
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That's very smart - thanks!
What CAI are you using?
The Haltech mostly because of the MAF housing being so much in the middle of the tube. Car doesn't even act like it is 90+ degrees. I assume the ADM intake with the MAF housed in the cooler boxed area would net the same results. Many don't realize how much keeping the MAF cooler improves performance or should I say maintain it.
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Old 07-01-2012, 04:06 PM   #10
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I might be wrong but i thought all the MAF does is measure air flow...???
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:02 PM   #11
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I might be wrong but i thought all the MAF does is measure air flow...???
I thought the same and still am looking into the real function but I do feel improvement. ADM air box actually puts this device in the boxed area keeping it cooler.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:15 PM   #12
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I might be wrong but i thought all the MAF does is measure air flow...???
Yes but the location of the sensor is critical in determining what kind of air the ECM is seeing. Air changes density (mass) with temperature and pressure. Once your car gets hot under hood it heats everything else up such as the intake tube which in turn heats up the intake air charge. So the air density that the MAF sensor is seeing in the location that its mounted is less than what it will see located further down in the intake tube where the colder more dense air is coming in. This is why you see some of these aftermarket CAI's relocate the sensor down further in the intake tube so that the ECM is always seeing air with the most density. Once the ECM see's hot air coming in it will start to adjust fuel and timing tables to compensate because its seeing less air density. It's basically seeing that you're driving your car in a much higher altitude than you really are. Keep in mind that the MAF sensor works in conjunction with several other sensors for the ECM to make the calculations so its only part of the loop. But moving it out of the hot engine bay so that it can "see" more dense air (cooler) really helps to keep the AF ratio where it properly needs to be.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:36 PM   #13
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hm... but the engine really doesnt see more air by cooling or relocating the MAF sensor...
Why not just program an offset into the reading of the MAF that would have the same effect?
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:59 PM   #14
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Warranty and legal issues. The manufacturer has to protect themselves from future claims and they also cant tell the EPA that their computer system is ignoring what a sensor is telling it which in turn affects emissions and breaks the law. And I'll leave it at that before this thread turns to crap.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by RoketRdr View Post
Yes but the location of the sensor is critical in determining what kind of air the ECM is seeing. Air changes density (mass) with temperature and pressure. Once your car gets hot under hood it heats everything else up such as the intake tube which in turn heats up the intake air charge. So the air density that the MAF sensor is seeing in the location that its mounted is less than what it will see located further down in the intake tube where the colder more dense air is coming in. This is why you see some of these aftermarket CAI's relocate the sensor down further in the intake tube so that the ECM is always seeing air with the most density. Once the ECM see's hot air coming in it will start to adjust fuel and timing tables to compensate because its seeing less air density. It's basically seeing that you're driving your car in a much higher altitude than you really are. Keep in mind that the MAF sensor works in conjunction with several other sensors for the ECM to make the calculations so its only part of the loop. But moving it out of the hot engine bay so that it can "see" more dense air (cooler) really helps to keep the AF ratio where it properly needs to be.
Hmmm ok. So does this somewhat mean that what I did by keeping the MAF cooler is giving me better AF ratio. I drove the car tonight when the temps were now like 77 degrees not 96. The car has even more torque available and the throttle pedal feels way more firmer than ever also spinning tires is now easier. Where the power usually falls off it now feels like somewhat of a Variable cam in which the power comes on harder around like 4000 rpm or so. Car is also more free flowing and definitely quicker. I actually thought this was a waste of time but now after like 200 miles of driving so far I am very glad I did this setup. Makes me realize that this car isn't really slow it's just that the heat really kills lots of it's true performance so instead of trying to add more power as a fix how about we try keeping things cooler first.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:59 AM   #16
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What about a heat exchanger reservoir? I've been thinking of putting a 2 gallon one in the trunk. Been reading that it should help keep the supercharger cooler, which should help keep IATs lower.

I like the trunk because I have more space, so I could even upgrade to a 5 gallon if I wanted. And I prefer to have the weight in the rear. And it will also be out of the engine compartment which should help keep it a little cooler.
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:18 AM   #17
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LPE sells a reservoir on their website and some other vendors have them too.
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:49 AM   #18
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I've been looking at a webstite called dads custom intercooler tank. Strange name but they seem to have an extremely large array of different type and size high quality tanks. I wish someone had a trunk kit though.
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:34 AM   #19
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WOW so is the ZL-1 really suffering this bad from heat soak.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:46 PM   #20
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Hmmm ok. So does this somewhat mean that what I did by keeping the MAF cooler is giving me better AF ratio. I drove the car tonight when the temps were now like 77 degrees not 96. The car has even more torque available and the throttle pedal feels way more firmer than ever also spinning tires is now easier. Where the power usually falls off it now feels like somewhat of a Variable cam in which the power comes on harder around like 4000 rpm or so. Car is also more free flowing and definitely quicker. I actually thought this was a waste of time but now after like 200 miles of driving so far I am very glad I did this setup. Makes me realize that this car isn't really slow it's just that the heat really kills lots of it's true performance so instead of trying to add more power as a fix how about we try keeping things cooler first.
Yes...the AF ratio is more optimal because you cooled the "hot-wire" in the sensor which tells the ECM that the air is more dense so it made corrections to the fuel and timing tables. So now your car will run like its in cool dense air at a lower altitude because the ECM will throw more fuel and timing at it.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #21
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WOW so is the ZL-1 really suffering this bad from heat soak.
All SC cars will suffer from heat soak. Some more than others and yes the ZL1 has this problem. There are some solutions though including oversized heat exchangers with fans and large coolant reservoirs but these still aren't optimal and can only cool the intake charge down so much. There are other methods brought to market that will super chill the IC coolant which in turn will radically drop the IAT's. Been working on a little project involving such method.
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:40 PM   #22
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What we need is a system that has a pre air box cooled by the cars AC system before entering the air filter housing and the rest of the air sytem. That would be the long term solution. It would take an engineer to figure out how big this pre airbox would need to be to supply ample amounts of air to the filter housing. Another thought would be to have the air box after the airfilter housing. It would not need to be as cold as the AC air in the car but it could work. We need it cheap also!
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:48 PM   #23
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What we need is a system that has a pre air box cooled by the cars AC system before entering the air filter housing and the rest of the air sytem.
It's already done and on the market. It doesn't get any better than this at cooling an intake charge.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99515

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153643
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:21 PM   #24
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WOW so is the ZL-1 really suffering this bad from heat soak.
I personally haven't had issues yet. But I want to make sure it continues to operate at its peak output under sustained heavy load.

All SC cars have the potential for heat soak. I got the idea for a reservoir from a supercharged BMW owner. He has a 5 gallon tank in his trunk.

The SuperChiller sounds pretty badass. Will need to read up on that.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:27 PM   #25
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Wow imagine if the ZL-1 was turbo charged like the GTR instead. . Turbo on this motor is killer.
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