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Old 07-03-2012, 06:52 PM   #1
SSTOKED
 
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New revisioin water bag installed today (pics showing differences)

I was given the privilege of watching the new water bag being installed today on my car. I totally appreciate my district manager and dealership (Doyle Chevrolet, Webster, NY) allowing me to do this. I guess I earned the right by waiting 22 days for this to happen! Below are some pics showing differences that I noticed and my thoughts about the new bag versus old. Enjoy.

I'm happy to have my car back in my possession again! The leaks are fixed. It was good to watch the field engineer in the car inspecting for leaks in the laser wash booth for a very long time with the interior components removed. I didn't verify it but I've managed to negotiate a new top mechanism and carpet so they will have to do it again anyhow. The new top will also improve the fit by the quarter glass (so I'm told). I'll post before and after pics of that too when that happens (probably at least a month from now).

I learned so much from this forum of what to look for, the least I could do is provide more info for people.

If you are offered a new water bag you really need to decide if you want it. As you will see below they have to disassemble a lot of the car to change it. Ask yourself how much you trust the technician assigned to your car to do it right. The field engineer said he has successfully repaired four vehicles without changing the bag out (adjusting fold position shown in one of the pictures below). They gouged my third brake light when removing it even though they were being extra careful. Of course, I have to point that out to my district manager to add that to the order!

If you want to see pics of my old top (built 4/26/2011) versus the new revision top (6/27/2012 release date) installed on my car, check out my thread here...http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=1#post5550196
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Partially reborn on 7/3/2012 (water bag upgrade)
Complete rebirth 8/27/2012 (new 6/27/2012 revision top installed, new carpet, new tonneau cover and new third brake light)

MODS:
Solo Performance Exhaust: Axle Back with J-Pipes

Last edited by SSTOKED; 09-08-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:04 PM   #2
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Great post! Looks like your car is 100% taken apart. I hope it goes back together OK
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:06 PM   #3
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Awesome write-up. Thanks for taking the time to document and share the info.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:14 PM   #4
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Glad to hear you have your car back! So you are going to keep this one then?
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinny View Post
Glad to hear you have your car back! So you are going to keep this one then?
I really would like to. I like having the 2011. I love the steering wheel. It's more bad ass like the car. The new ones look like all the other cars.

It will be going back in a month or so for the new top and new carpet. So after all that is done, I will assess the condition of the car and only time will tell how it performs.
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HISTORY:
Born on 4/26/2011
Partially reborn on 7/3/2012 (water bag upgrade)
Complete rebirth 8/27/2012 (new 6/27/2012 revision top installed, new carpet, new tonneau cover and new third brake light)

MODS:
Solo Performance Exhaust: Axle Back with J-Pipes

Last edited by SSTOKED; 07-03-2012 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pincoin View Post
Great post! Looks like your car is 100% taken apart. I hope it goes back together OK
Oh yeah, here it is back in my garage all together! It's sitting on the new urethane floor too!
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HISTORY:
Born on 4/26/2011
Partially reborn on 7/3/2012 (water bag upgrade)
Complete rebirth 8/27/2012 (new 6/27/2012 revision top installed, new carpet, new tonneau cover and new third brake light)

MODS:
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #7
theragtopguy
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Great pics! Thanks for sharing!
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:36 PM   #8
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Nice write-up.. This is good news from the GM R&D dept. Identify the issues, redesign the item. Lets hope thaey did the same for the vert mech..
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:57 PM   #9
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Thanks for sharing bud. I thought it would look like this. I was told they found a guy that can replace my canvas "in like one day". LOL.....

Yeah. Now I know where all the interior damage came from, scratches, nicks, gouges in the plastic trim. And I can now see how my exterior trim keeps falling off. OMG.

Congrats on getting the right folks to do it right. For me it is becoming an uphill battle, literally. The higher up this goes - the more resistance I find.

More fuel for the fire.....we need to all keep networking to make sure Chevrolet is applying their warranty in a consistent manner. So far, they have not.

Something I shared in another post:

"It's information we share that educates us on these issues. Owners networking here strive to achieve a level of consistency regarding application of Chevrolet's warranty practices equally among all owners of this model. Identifying inconsistencies in this process is still an ongoing problem. The same issue is being "corrected" in a dozen plus different ways with different owners at different dealers in separate cities and states, some are working, others are not. Networking brings us together and places focus on a common goal."

Again congrats on getting that gorgeous car back in one piece..... considering what those pictures were like. Whew! KEep us posted on how the whole thing turns out.

Last edited by cactuseater; 07-03-2012 at 09:04 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuseater View Post
Thanks for sharing bud. I thought it would look like this. I was told they found a guy that can replace my canvas "in like one day". LOL.....

Yeah. Now I know where all the interior damage came from, scratches, nicks, gouges in the plastic trim. And I can now see how my exterior trim keeps falling off. OMG.

Congrats on getting the right folks to do it right. For me it is becoming an uphill battle, literally. The higher up this goes - the more resistance I find.

More fuel for the fire.....we need to all keep networking to make sure Chevrolet is applying their warranty in a consistent manner. So far, they have not.

Something I shared in another post:

"It's information we share that educates us on these issues. Owners networking here strive to achieve a level of consistency regarding application of Chevrolet's warranty practices equally among all owners of this model. Identifying inconsistencies in this process is still an ongoing problem. The same issue is being "corrected" in a dozen plus different ways with different owners at different dealers in separate cities and states, some are working, others are not. Networking brings us together and places focus on a common goal."

Again congrats on getting that gorgeous car back in one piece..... considering what those pictures were like. Whew! KEep us posted on how the whole thing turns out.
They worked on it steady from 11 am to 4 pm with a normal lunch squeezed in. They were not screwing around either...lots of work.

They did scratch the interior paint where you can't see it under the interior plastic panels. I'll have them touch that up when they do it a second time.

Yeah, I'm not understanding the inconsistent approach either. From my perspective it seems to depend on the mix of people involved. I feel for you 'cactuseater'. Hang in there!
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HISTORY:
Born on 4/26/2011
Partially reborn on 7/3/2012 (water bag upgrade)
Complete rebirth 8/27/2012 (new 6/27/2012 revision top installed, new carpet, new tonneau cover and new third brake light)

MODS:
Solo Performance Exhaust: Axle Back with J-Pipes
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #11
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Copy that brother.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:31 PM   #12
'11 cyber grey vert
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sstoked,
thanks for posting.great pics
I am glad your car is back in one piece.
good luck!!!
knock on wood , since the water bag was replaced in mine.so far no leaks in back.time will tell I guess.My 5th bow seems to be holding together as well after the 5th bow replacement.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '11 cyber grey vert View Post
sstoked,
thanks for posting.great pics
I am glad your car is back in one piece.
good luck!!!
knock on wood , since the water bag was replaced in mine.so far no leaks in back.time will tell I guess.My 5th bow seems to be holding together as well after the 5th bow replacement.
Oh yeah, they did my 5th bow too but that was like years ago within the 22 days it was there...LOL. It's amazing how much stress this toy has caused for me. I just couldn't let it go. Some people can, I couldn't. Now, I'm enjoying posting on this forum instead of doing it for research. You guys are great! What did people do without support networks like this?
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HISTORY:
Born on 4/26/2011
Partially reborn on 7/3/2012 (water bag upgrade)
Complete rebirth 8/27/2012 (new 6/27/2012 revision top installed, new carpet, new tonneau cover and new third brake light)

MODS:
Solo Performance Exhaust: Axle Back with J-Pipes
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:55 PM   #14
'11 cyber grey vert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSTOKED View Post
Oh yeah, they did my 5th bow too but that was like years ago within the 22 days it was there...LOL. It's amazing how much stress this toy has caused for me. I just couldn't let it go. Some people can, I couldn't. Now, I'm enjoying posting on this forum instead of doing it for research. You guys are great! What did people do without support networks like this?

Agreed.These forums have helped tremendously and a thank you to all!!!

I still believe that these repairs should only be attempted by dealers/shops with convertible top experience.I think anything else is trouble.
I wish GM Canada would have approved my requests through my dealer and could have had my roof repaired once and not twice.
I had asked that the water mangement bag be changed out at the same time my 5th bow was repaired.

so they(GM) approved the 5th bow repair which was done back in april,didn't approve of the water management bag at that time and 7-8 weeks later my vert was back at the dealer to deal with the leak in the back which was determined to be the water management bag had failed.

knock on wood, all seems ok for now but time will tell if the repairs will last.In the meantime,I put the top down every chance I get and am enjoying it...PERMAGRIN HAS RETURNED!!!
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:17 AM   #15
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Holy Sheet...that first picture took my breath away.

Glad you're halfway home to a complete fix. Knock wood.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:47 AM   #16
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Great write up and pics as well good luck~
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:36 AM   #17
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Great Pictures and write up. So far I have been fortunate and have had no issues but my Camaro is only 5 months old. I have had the service performed on the top and it seems to be working very well. Information exchange is valuable. Thanks again.
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Old 07-04-2012, 06:48 AM   #18
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Where did they run the new tubes to?
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:36 AM   #19
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Where did they run the new tubes to?
Bad photography job on my part! They ran them to existing body panel holes that are in the far back corners of the trunk. Best I can tell without pulling the muffler to see the drain and removing interior trunk liners, I can feel the tubes go in that general vicinity. They pulled out existing plastic plugs in some holes and the end of the tube was designed to snap into the existing holes.

Sorry I didn't get a photo of that!
__________________
HISTORY:
Born on 4/26/2011
Partially reborn on 7/3/2012 (water bag upgrade)
Complete rebirth 8/27/2012 (new 6/27/2012 revision top installed, new carpet, new tonneau cover and new third brake light)

MODS:
Solo Performance Exhaust: Axle Back with J-Pipes
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:41 AM   #20
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great thanks for the info and good luck!
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #21
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SSTOKED,

Great pictures. It took a lot of effort to outline this. Comments: I've never had my bag replaced - I've never had water in the car. After I wash my Camaro on my downward inclined driveway, tail downward, I pull the car into the garage to drive to hear the water draining out of the back somewhere. It drains onto the garage floor. I assume that is the bag in operation.

I still don't fully understand the purpose of the bag - seems to me that the design should get rid of water ASAP. Do other OEM vert's have bags?

Prior post: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196827
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:31 PM   #22
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I have 15k miles on mine and haven't had a problem with water management or wet carpets.

Is there a TSB on this or did the dealer do it for you?

Also, I have never had an issue with the 5 bow and this car has had the top up and down many times. Mostly down than up.

Just wondering if this is something I should address with my SM when I take it in this month to the the Gen III design of the top installed.

My thought, if it's not broke not worth fixing.

-Funk
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07/21/2011 - (3800) Order produced and vehicle is being prepared for shipping.
08/09/2011 - (4200) Shipped (vehicle is shipped to the dealer or interim point of delivery).
08/16/2011 - (5000) Vehicle has been delivered to dealer.
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlieremead View Post
I still don't fully understand the purpose of the bag - seems to me that the design should get rid of water ASAP. Do other OEM vert's have bags?
Since the Camaro top comes out of a hole and does not shingle over the body of the car the bag is there is direct water that runs down the sides and back of the top to the ground. I'm not familiar with other makes of automatic soft tops so I can't really speak to how they are designed. I peaked in my friends older Sebring and you could tell it had some sort of water management system. My sister's Pontiac Soltice even has a small bag on the back that catches any small amount of water that gets by the trunk lid near the rag top.
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HISTORY:
Born on 4/26/2011
Partially reborn on 7/3/2012 (water bag upgrade)
Complete rebirth 8/27/2012 (new 6/27/2012 revision top installed, new carpet, new tonneau cover and new third brake light)

MODS:
Solo Performance Exhaust: Axle Back with J-Pipes
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnyklr View Post
I have 15k miles on mine and haven't had a problem with water management or wet carpets.
Consider yourself lucky that they manufactured it correctly. The GM tech that replaced mine said he has successfully repaired 4 older design water bags by just relocating that fold that I show in the pics above. Yours was probably installed correctly at the factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnyklr View Post
Is there a TSB on this or did the dealer do it for you?
No TSB went to any customers regarding leaks that I know of. We just have to notice the leak on our own and bring the car to the dealer. When they couldn't fix my leak by themselves and I was the persistent customer demanding latest revision hardware, they did the research and ordered the new bag after talking with the district manager.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnyklr View Post
Also, I have never had an issue with the 5 bow and this car has had the top up and down many times. Mostly down than up.
I'm not up to speed on the 5th bow issue. I know my dealer replaced it during their attempts to fix the leak but that was during the dark 22 days of my life when I didn't have my car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnyklr View Post
Just wondering if this is something I should address with my SM when I take it in this month to the the Gen III design of the top installed.

My thought, if it's not broke not worth fixing.
Are you saying you are getting a new Gen III top? If you are happy with yours, I would probably leave it alone and keep your eye on it. I doubt they will change it if you aren't having problems. Definitely check it before the end of the warranty.
__________________
HISTORY:
Born on 4/26/2011
Partially reborn on 7/3/2012 (water bag upgrade)
Complete rebirth 8/27/2012 (new 6/27/2012 revision top installed, new carpet, new tonneau cover and new third brake light)

MODS:
Solo Performance Exhaust: Axle Back with J-Pipes
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSTOKED View Post
Are you saying you are getting a new Gen III top? If you are happy with yours, I would probably leave it alone and keep your eye on it. I doubt they will change it if you aren't having problems. Definitely check it before the end of the warranty.
I am getting the Gen III top.

The biggest problem with my top are the wrinkles or waves between bows 1 and 2 along with the typical rub marks.

-Funk
__________________
2012 Convert 2SS/RS SW/IO LS3 - Build #1081

07/21/2011 - (3800) Order produced and vehicle is being prepared for shipping.
08/09/2011 - (4200) Shipped (vehicle is shipped to the dealer or interim point of delivery).
08/16/2011 - (5000) Vehicle has been delivered to dealer.
08/19/2011 - In my possession.
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