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Old 07-08-2012, 01:41 PM   #76
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well I am also looking on trading up but it sure is taking some time. I have had my car since June of '09 and not that the improvements of the '11-'13 are that much different, I do like most of them (dash, hud) it does not warrant me trading up as of yet. I have been sitting on the fact that the Z/28 will be resurrected and in my opinion with the 5.3L direct injected motor with MR in a '14 MY camaro. I do not want to wait for the 6th gen because who knows if I will like the styling of it and absolutely love my car now. Sure my car will be paid off in a year and I could change out the dash, add a cam(change motor or add blower) and some way add MR to it, but it will never be to me a Z/28!
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:34 PM   #77
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As I see it;
Mustang V-6=Camaro V-6..........Who really cares
Mustang GT>CamaroSS..............Lighter and more hp makes the difference
Boss Mustang vs. ??????.............Better get it right with the LT1 or Z/28 or whatever they decide to call it.
GT500>=ZL1.............................Not quite the knock out punch Al and Scott had bragged about.

GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles. Watch CNBC's show on Ford, when the engineers where sat down with CR testers, they wanted to make excuses about why they did things the way they did. Ford's CEO told them to shut up and LISTEN to what was wrong with the cars. Maybe the Camaro team needs to have the same style meeting.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:42 PM   #78
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GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles.

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Old 07-08-2012, 03:58 PM   #79
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GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles.


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Old 07-08-2012, 04:13 PM   #80
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But what if none of those ideas fit what you want? What if you want something more modern and lighter? But still a track animal of course.

I do not think any current NA Chevy engine in a Camaro will out run a ZL1 at the track. And GM says the iLE should run with the Boss. There is not a lot of room there in between.

And it gets a little tricky with weight. The ZL1 has a much heavier differential than the SS. I think, and I could be wrong, that this, after the supercharger, is the second biggest reason for the ZL1 weight gain. So what if Chevy decides the LS7 needs the beefier differential to handle the LS7 over the long haul. Keeping MRC (it sounds like it is worth the weight gain) for the moment, there may only be a 100 pound difference between the ZL1 and an LS7 Z28.

Is a Z28 @ 4,000 pounds a Z28?

Finding out how good the ZL1 is at the track is a Z28 game changer for me. Except for the cost, poor gas milage, and gas guzzler tax, I want one. Apparently the weight is not a problem at all at the track or anywhere else. And looking at what Pedders is saying about the ZL1, you can easily raise the ZL1 bar with some simple suspension mods. And an additional 100 hp is there for the taking.

So, what if say SLP slips an LS7 and the ZL1 front brakes into the 1LE and creates the Z28SLP. Would that fit the bill?
First of all, NOWHERE has "GM" said "The 1LE will run with the BOSS LS". This sort of remark is what has many in the world questioning if the ZL1 is "sub-par" becuse it doesn't "outrun the [2013] GT500", something apparently alluded to by someone at GM, offhandedly.

What GM said was the "1LE is capable of a sub-3:00 lap @ VIR". YOU can draw whatever conclusions YOU wish from that statement...

Let's NOT start a "war of words" BEFORE the 1LE arrives in showrooms...

MRC is NOT "mandatory" for a Z28. The 1LE's enhanced FE4 will suit just fine.

1LE @ 3920 lb. Curb = Z28 Curb with wet LS7, excepting the 6-piston front Brembos from the ZL1. 4000 lb Z28 is not a necessary stat...

Using the 1LE as the basis for an aftermarket-installed LS7 suffers two significant problems: NO GM warranty, bumper-to-bumper; Cost-prohibitive (the pull-out LS3's value would not cover the re-and-re charges, so you're on the hook for the LS7's full $13K cost + MORE = ZL1 money, without a suitable warranty)
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:37 PM   #81
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As I see it;
Mustang V-6=Camaro V-6..........Who really cares
Mustang GT>CamaroSS..............Lighter and more hp makes the difference
Boss Mustang vs. ??????.............Better get it right with the LT1 or Z/28 or whatever they decide to call it.
GT500>=ZL1.............................Not quite the knock out punch Al and Scott had bragged about.

GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles. Watch CNBC's show on Ford, when the engineers where sat down with CR testers, they wanted to make excuses about why they did things the way they did. Ford's CEO told them to shut up and LISTEN to what was wrong with the cars. Maybe the Camaro team needs to have the same style meeting.
Does a GT have more HP than an SS?
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:43 PM   #82
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^Opps, sorry, no it doesn't.
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:54 AM   #83
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First of all, NOWHERE has "GM" said "The 1LE will run with the BOSS LS". This sort of remark is what has many in the world questioning if the ZL1 is "sub-par" becuse it doesn't "outrun the [2013] GT500", something apparently alluded to by someone at GM, offhandedly.

What GM said was the "1LE is capable of a sub-3:00 lap @ VIR". YOU can draw whatever conclusions YOU wish from that statement...

Let's NOT start a "war of words" BEFORE the 1LE arrives in showrooms...

MRC is NOT "mandatory" for a Z28. The 1LE's enhanced FE4 will suit just fine.

1LE @ 3920 lb. Curb = Z28 Curb with wet LS7, excepting the 6-piston front Brembos from the ZL1. 4000 lb Z28 is not a necessary stat...

I doubt they would make those claims after the whole "ZL1 will easily handle the GT500" statements that were made.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:29 AM   #84
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I doubt they would make those claims after the whole "ZL1 will easily handle the GT500" statements that were made.
It's easier for them to challenge a rival in this case cause they know what the boss can do. No simulations needed.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:59 AM   #85
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All that's needed then would be for the production hardware and tuning to live up to the simulations that at least have a known target.

Ride & handling isn't something that can be explicitly computed and called done. That's why there are test drivers.


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Old 07-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #86
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It's easier for them to challenge a rival in this case cause they know what the boss can do. No simulations needed.
I'll wait until the car is in production and being run before I believe what it can actually do.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:43 PM   #87
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I'll wait until the car is in production and being run before I believe what it can actually do.

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Old 07-09-2012, 05:23 PM   #88
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I'm not saying the 1LE won't out run a BOSS 302 or even the LS if the VIR time is correct, I'd just like to see it happen.
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:57 PM   #89
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I'm not saying the 1LE won't out run a BOSS 302 or even the LS if the VIR time is correct, I'd just like to see it happen.
We would all like to see something. The car is coming out in a month and all we have is pics and a 10 second video clip. Pretty disappointed that there was little to no hype for the 1LE like there was with the ZL1. I know it's not it's own model but I think it deserves more recognition than what it's getting.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:12 PM   #90
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I'm not saying the 1LE won't out run a BOSS 302 or even the LS if the VIR time is correct, I'd just like to see it happen.

this.......

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We would all like to see something. The car is coming out in a month and all we have is pics and a 10 second video clip. Pretty disappointed that there was little to no hype for the 1LE like there was with the ZL1. I know it's not it's own model but I think it deserves more recognition than what it's getting.
and this............
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:28 PM   #91
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THIS time, maybe the mags better do the talkin'...

If the results are "as anticipated", it won't take long to "bang the drum".
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #92
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We would all like to see something. The car is coming out in a month and all we have is pics and a 10 second video clip. Pretty disappointed that there was little to no hype for the 1LE like there was with the ZL1. I know it's not it's own model but I think it deserves more recognition than what it's getting.
These topics are really heating up.


You know it wouldn't take a whole lot to change a 1LE................................ to a Z.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:32 PM   #93
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They can swing the marketing pendulum back to the Camaro with the Z28/LS7. If they wait too long sales will decline and they will give the Mustang control again in the pony car wars.
Doubt it. I really don't think the demand for a Z28 is as great as what a few people on this site think it will be if it gets produced. Don't get me wrong, I think the introduction of a Z28 into the offerings would be a good thing, I just don't think the demand would as great as it might have been were there not a ZL1 or a 1LE package already offered.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:43 PM   #94
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Doubt it. I really don't think the demand for a Z28 is as great as what a few people on this site think it will be if it gets produced. Don't get me wrong, I think the introduction of a Z28 into the offerings would be a good thing, I just don't think the demand would as great as it might have been were there not a ZL1 or a 1LE package already offered.
I think a good number of individuals will trade up from an SS to a Z28. The name has the strongest identity for the Camaro. Build it and "it" will sell well...very well.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:05 PM   #95
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As I see it;
Mustang V-6=Camaro V-6..........Who really cares
Mustang GT>CamaroSS..............Lighter and more hp makes the difference
Boss Mustang vs. ??????.............Better get it right with the LT1 or Z/28 or whatever they decide to call it.
GT500>=ZL1.............................Not quite the knock out punch Al and Scott had bragged about.

GM engineers need to quit making excuses for why they fail, and just use their talents to make winning vehicles. Watch CNBC's show on Ford, when the engineers where sat down with CR testers, they wanted to make excuses about why they did things the way they did. Ford's CEO told them to shut up and LISTEN to what was wrong with the cars. Maybe the Camaro team needs to have the same style meeting.
I didn't see the show, although I want to see it. I agree with your hardline, hardball overview. GM has put together a spectacular car, with an outdated underpowered engine in the ZL1. It's visa versa with Ford. A marvelous motor in a less than capabale chasis and supension. Maybe, Chevy can learn something from Ford in the engine building department. Why do we, Chevy enthusiasts, have to pay a surcharge on the ZL1, when Ford does not?. And they have gobs more power?
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:50 AM   #96
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Doubt it. I really don't think the demand for a Z28 is as great as what a few people on this site think it will be if it gets produced. Don't get me wrong, I think the introduction of a Z28 into the offerings would be a good thing, I just don't think the demand would as great as it might have been were there not a ZL1 or a 1LE package already offered.
thanks for the input ms. debbie downer :(
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:59 AM   #97
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Doubt it. I really don't think the demand for a Z28 is as great as what a few people on this site think it will be if it gets produced. Don't get me wrong, I think the introduction of a Z28 into the offerings would be a good thing, I just don't think the demand would as great as it might have been were there not a ZL1 or a 1LE package already offered.
If the Z/28 comes out with a new engine, they'll sell 20,000 in the first year. The biggest market are current Gen5 owners waiting to trade up. The sooner we see the C7 Corvettee engine annoucement the sooner we'll know more about the next Z/28.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:06 AM   #98
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thanks for the input ms. debbie downer :(


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Old 07-10-2012, 08:29 AM   #99
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Watch CNBC's show on Ford, when the engineers where sat down with CR testers, they wanted to make excuses about why they did things the way they did. Ford's CEO told them to shut up and LISTEN to what was wrong with the cars. Maybe the Camaro team needs to have the same style meeting.
Got a link for this?

I'm really interested in the kinds of things the CR testers were questioning and the sorts of "excuses" that were attempted.

It's not nearly so much about it being what I'm currently driving or that it was Ford under the gun as it's me seeing things from the engineering perspective and from knowing what deep involvement with any given task can do to create "tunnel vision". Sometimes it takes a kick in the shins or wherever to see a different point of view.


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Old 07-10-2012, 08:44 AM   #100
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I'm not saying the 1LE won't out run a BOSS 302 or even the LS if the VIR time is correct, I'd just like to see it happen.
The 1LE better outrun the Boss 302. This is the last year for the Boss and GM has had plenty of time to use the Boss 302's performance as a benchmark.
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