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Old 07-05-2012, 12:36 PM   #1
wabibito
 
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I think I have a file a lemon law

I love my 2SS/RS but the Service Stabilitrak issue has been wasting too much of my time. I have been working with GM customer service and every time they keep on telling me to to bring back to the dealer. This is my only car and I am out of the car if i keep on bringing it back. I did how ever got a rental car the last time they service (5 days), though the loaner car keep on having service air bag pop up every day. Called the dealer and they said not to worries =/.

The error happened again and GM wanted be to bring back for them to look. I love camaro but this one giving me too much issue. I am going to talk to my lawyer and see how thing pan out.

Here is the background.

03/21/2012 - Car purchased

Service Date: 3/26/2012
Duration: 2 day
Issue: 3rd brake light doesn't work

Service Date: 3/31/2012
Duration: 1 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 4/12/2012
Duration: 1 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 6/7/2012
Duration: 1 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 6/15/2012
Duration: 1 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 6/18/2012
Duration: 2 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 6/21/2012
Duration: 5 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:41 PM   #2
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I have nothing to say other than that your situation sucks.

Sorry you are having so many issues.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:46 PM   #3
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Ouch, sorry.

Did you buy it brand new?
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:47 PM   #4
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That blows. GM will probably do all they can to avoid giving you another car
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #5
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I bought it from the with 200 miles from the dealer. No pervious owner before me. I think it was a left over from last year.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangejuice View Post
That blows. GM will probably do all they can to avoid giving you another car


Good luck on getting a resolution you are happy with.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #7
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I talked to the lawyer, he said i have a case and will represent me. I will give GM another chance and ask for a replacement car. If they giving me too much trouble, the lawyer tell me just to get my money back.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:53 PM   #8
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how many miles do you have now... Remember they will have final repair attempts and charge a usage fee. Most likely will trade you out for another if they cannot fix.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:59 PM   #9
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it has around 6k miles on it. I have 6 years 72k miles no deductible extended warranty on it. Took it to 3 or 4 road trips with family. Boy it was embarrassing that every single road trip some one in the car said they what is this error.

I don't mind paying for the usage fees. I just want a WORKING car.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:10 PM   #10
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I went through that with a Nissan Frontier that had a bad brake issue. The brakes would either not apply or get stuck on while taking off from stop lights. They would also intermittently apply when making sharp turns. I fought for almost a year and after several video'd dangerous situations I finally had to contact the department of transportation of the state of TX and they were the only ones who got Nissan to buy it back. The other posters are correct you will have to pay for your usage. I feel for you.. your in a tough situation, I think I can honestly say, though ,GM is much better to deal with than Nissan. Nissan has the worst in customer satisfaction for serious issues, They told me is was OK with them if my (then) 4 month old baby was seriously injured in a brake related wreck. During that one year time I avoided over 30 accidents because of the issue.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #11
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1CamaroSS, I hope things works out also. Sorry to hear about this nissan and the pain you went through.

The dealer re-flashed the BCM one time and replaced the BCM last time the car in the shop for 5 days. I tried three different dealers, non of which knows what is going on. It seems like they keep on replacing parts but doesn't solve the issue.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:23 PM   #12
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I hope you get it resolved soon. Hopefully they will give you a new car. It shouldn't take this long to fix something.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabibito View Post
I love my 2SS/RS but the Service Stabilitrak issue has been wasting too much of my time. I have been working with GM customer service and every time they keep on telling me to to bring back to the dealer. This is my only car and I am out of the car if i keep on bringing it back. I did how ever got a rental car the last time they service (5 days), though the loaner car keep on having service air bag pop up every day. Called the dealer and they said not to worries =/.

The error happened again and GM wanted be to bring back for them to look. I love camaro but this one giving me too much issue. I am going to talk to my lawyer and see how thing pan out.

Here is the background.

03/21/2012 - Car purchased

Service Date: 3/26/2012
Duration: 2 day
Issue: 3rd brake light doesn't work

Service Date: 3/31/2012
Duration: 1 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 4/12/2012
Duration: 1 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 6/7/2012
Duration: 1 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 6/15/2012
Duration: 1 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 6/18/2012
Duration: 2 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error

Service Date: 6/21/2012
Duration: 5 day
Issue: Service Stabilitrak error
I would ask for another car, same or similar to what you have.

Those kind of issues are unacceptable especially considering what we all have to pay for these cars.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:25 PM   #14
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good luck. hopefully this will get resolved soon!
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:29 PM   #15
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Quick question. When the issue presents itself have you tried to turn your car off, leave it parked, then come back and start it or do you auto take it to dealership?

I ask because my car sometimes has an electrical freak out and does this... all the service stabilitrak lights turn on and the RPM gauge stops working.
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:40 PM   #16
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It happened randomly. usually i need a restart for it to goes away, sometimes it doesn't and sometimes when you restart it still stay on. Most of the time while i am driving it will pop up. Every day so far since Sat. It will show up while in cruise control too. Last weekend, It popped up and goes away in 15 mins. I then try to drive a little more aggressively to see if i can reproduce it. Ended up with a ticket lolz.

I usually bring it to the dealer after it happened a few times in a row. If it bring it in every time i see it, the count will be significantly more then the listed above.

Same error code every time C0161.

I have been talking to GM District Representative for a while now. Been listening to them to bring the car back to the dealer to have it fix. I feel that i have been wasting too much time on this. Tried three different dealers but none seems to know how to fix it. Three weeks ago I told her that if you guys don't fix it i will have to file a lemon law if I don't get a replacement. It has been in the dealer twice since then and now still having issue. I only have one route left to go.

This is my first GM car. I hope the resolution will turns out better.

Last edited by wabibito; 07-05-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabibito View Post
1CamaroSS, I hope things works out also. Sorry to hear about this nissan and the pain you went through.

The dealer re-flashed the BCM one time and replaced the BCM last time the car in the shop for 5 days. I tried three different dealers, non of which knows what is going on. It seems like they keep on replacing parts but doesn't solve the issue.
Thanks wabibito...This actually happened about 8 years ago.After the DOT of TX got in touch with Nissan they bought the truck back from me in literally 48 hours. I was shocked! A year later I found out it was a rear wheel speed sensor fault in the wiring that was intermittently activating the ABS control module. I think they had a recall shortly after that.

Sounds like you have a intermittent off the wall issue. With all your visits to the dealer you should qualify for a trade or buyback issue. Keep pushing and if you have to... make sure they get a factory rep. involved in the repair. Sometimes they will come to the dealer to assist the technicians in the repair. Keep us posted!!!
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:27 PM   #18
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I would take it the same dealer so they know what they have done, every time you go to a new dealer, thay are basically starting from scratch. Find a competant dealer in your area, ask around here for recommidations. I had a similar thing on my Sky Redline and it was the wheel speed sensors acting up. Replace them and no more problems.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:46 PM   #19
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The last 4 times I took to the same dealer. One dealer told me because of the led fog light bulb. Switch it back still have issue.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:52 PM   #20
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Service Information
Home Publications Number Search New Bulletins Bulletin Search Feedback Help
2011 Chevrolet Camaro | Camaro VIN F Service Manual | Document ID: 2531133
#PIT4665C: ABS Traction Control And/Or Stabilitrak Lights On With No DTCs - (Sep 14, 2010)
Subject: ABS, Traction Control And/Or Stabilitrak Lights On With No DTC’s

Models: 2008-2011 Buick Enclave
2007-2011 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT
2009 Cadillac XLR
2007-2011 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado LD, Suburban, Tahoe
2010-2011 Chevrolet Camaro
2009-2011 Chevrolet Corvette, Traverse
2007-2011 GMC Acadia, Sierra LD, Yukon, Yukon XL, Yukon Denali, Yukon Denali XL
2008-2009 Pontiac G8
2007-2010 Saturn Outlook

This PI was superseded to update model years. Please discard PIT4665B.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:

During normal diagnostics and/or repair verification technicians may find that the ABS light, Traction Control and/or Stabilitrak indicators may be on with no DTCs displayed by the EBCM. This condition may be due to the EBCM requiring a full power down to reset the diagnostic monitoring after a Clear All DTCs command has been performed with the Tech 2.

Do not replace an EBCM for this condition, as this is NOT an internal EBCM hardware problem.

This condition can typically be resolved by performing a full power down of the EBCM. The following DTCs are applicable to this condition of Lights on no DTCs C0035, C0040, C0045, C0050, C0110, C0131, C0161, C0186, C0196, C0245, C0252, C0299, C0450, C0455, C0550, C0710, U0100, and U2142.
Recommendation/Instructions:
Important: Follow the guidelines below when performing a TECH 2 DTC Clear Code Command Request. Do not replace an EBCM for this Lights On No DTCs condition.

1. Perform TECH 2 EBCM Clear All DTCs command. If not already performed.
2. After EBCM Clear All DTCs process is complete the EBCM Telltales may still appear.
3. Key Off Ignition, Remove Key, Open and Close the drivers door to turn off RAP (Retained Accessory Power) and wait at least 60 seconds.
4. Key On Ignition, Are the EBCM related Telltales still present?
• If No Telltales and No DTCs, no further action is required.
• If Yes Telltales and DTC present, follow the appropriate Diagnostic Trouble Code procedure.
• If Yes Telltales and NO DTC present, operate the vehicle at speeds greater than 15 km/h (10 mph) to complete the self test. If vehicle is repaired the EBCM will turn off the indicators. If a DTC resets follow the appropriate Diagnostic Trouble Code procedure.
5. If telltales remain with NO DTCs after the drive cycle, then disconnect battery for at least 60 seconds and then reconnect. This will insure a complete power down of the EBCM. Turn Key on ignition and operate the vehicle at speeds greater than 15 km/h (10 mph) to complete the self test. Verify no telltales or DTCs reset.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:53 PM   #21
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Service Information
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2011 Chevrolet Camaro | Camaro VIN F Service Manual | Document ID: 2698565
#PIC5428C: EBCM Wheel Speed Sensor Diagnostic Aid For ABS Message - Service Traction Message - Service Stabilitrak Message - (Aug 3, 2011)
Subject: EBCM Wheel Speed Sensor Diagnostic Aid for ABS Message - Service Traction Message - Service Stabilitrak Message

Models: 2008-2012 Buick Enclave
2008-2012 Cadillac CTS/CTS-V
2010-2012 Cadillac CTS Wagon
2011 2012 Cadillac CTS/CTS-V Coupe
2010-2012 Cadillac SRX
2009-2012 Chevrolet Traverse
2010-2012 Chevrolet Equinox
2011-2012 Chevrolet Cruze, Volt
2007-2012 GMC Acadia
2010-2012 GMC Terrain
2007-2010 Saturn Outlook
2010-2012 Buick LaCrosse
2011-2012 Buick Regal
2010-2012 Chevrolet Camaro
2011-2012 Chevrolet Camaro Convertible
with any of the following DTCs or Symptom codes C0035 C0040 C0045 C0050 with symptom bytes 18 5A 0F.

This PI was superseded to update model years. Please discard PIC5428B.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:

A customer may comment the ABS, Service Traction Control System, and/or Service Stabilitrak telltale lights are on. During initial scan for EBCM module diagnostic codes you may find one or more of the following DTC’s C0035-C0050 with specifically symptom bytes 18, 5A, 0F.

This condition may be caused by single or multiple pieces of ferrous metallic debris stuck to the wheel speed sensor magnetic encoder ring. This magnetic encoder ring is now part of the inboard bearing hub assembly.

Background Information:

Object Number: 2596034
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

1. Wheel Speed Sensor

Magnetic Encoder Ring

North and South Poles are shown

New Bearing Design

Object Number: 2596032
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

1. Magnetic Encoder Ring

Some new model vehicles today have begun to use a different type of wheel speed sensor encoder ring or tone wheel. Instead of a traditional mechanical type tooth tone wheel, the wheel speed sensor tone wheel is now made of a magnetized nitrile rubber ring, typically brown in color. This magnetic encoder consists of multiple North and South pole pairs surrounding the outer circumference. When this magnetic encoder ring rotates and passes by the wheel speed sensor head; it generates a sign wave in the wheel speed sensor. The wheel speed sensor converts an analog signal to a digital square wave, and typical digital signal values switch between 7mA (Low) and 14mA (High) DC current.
Recommendation/Instructions:

Inspect and clean debris from the Encoder Ring.

Inspection and Cleaning Procedure:

Below inspection and cleaning procedure is supporting information to the SI wheel speed sensor diagnostic mechanical fault table. In most cases the DTCs C0035-C0050 with symptom bytes 18, 5A, 0F can be repaired by removing and/or cleaning any accumulated debris on the magnetic encoder ring; which is located on the inboard side of the bearing hub.
Important: Most repairs can be performed without any replacement of the bearing hub assembly or wheel speed sensor.

Caution: Take care not to damage the bearing outer seal when brushing and/or cleaning the magnetic encoder debris.

Do not use any type of magnetic tool to remove the debris from the bearing magnetic encoder; an external magnet can damage the encoder.

BEFORE CLEANING

Object Number: 2596037
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

1. Sample Debris
1. Based on the specific EBCM module Wheel Speed Sensor DTC code; inspect the appropriate corner magnetic encoder ring for possible debris.
• C0035 Left Front Corner
• C0040 Right Front Corner
• C0045 Left Rear Corner
• C0050 Right Rear Corner
2. If debris is found, perform the following cleaning recommendations.
Important: To properly clean the magnetic encoder ring, some applications may require removal of the bearing/hub assembly. Refer to the specific Wheel Bearing and Hub Replacement procedure in SI.
2.1 Gently using a dry nylon soft bristle brush, remove the foreign debris off the magnetic encoder ring. If debris was removed, proceed to step 3.
2.2 If debris still remains, wash the encoder ring using a mild soap detergent and wipe dry.
AFTER CLEANING

Object Number: 2596035
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
3. Connect a scan tool to the vehicle. Turn ON the ignition. Clear the DTCs.
4. Perform vehicle diagnostic repair verification procedure for DTC: C0035-C0050. Refer to SI.

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:


H9757


Inspect and Clean Debris From Front Wheel Speed Sensor Encoder Ring (One Side)
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:56 PM   #22
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2011 Chevrolet Camaro | Camaro VIN F Service Manual | Document ID: 2400057
DTC C0161
Diagnostic Instructions
• Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure.
• Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
• Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provides an overview of each diagnostic category.
DTC Descriptors
DTC C0161 00: Antilock Braking System Brake Sensor Circuit
DTC C0161 5A: Antilock Braking System Brake Sensor Signal Not Plausible
Circuit/System Description

When the brake pedal is applied, the Body Control Module sends a serial data message to the Electronic Brake Control Module in reference to the brake pedal position. The Electronic Brake Control Module compares the correlation between the brake pedal position and the amount of brake pressure it senses from the Brake Pressure Sensor, which is internal to the Brake Pressure Modulator. It uses this information to control the vehicle during a stability control event.
Conditions for Running the DTC
• Ignition ON
• DTC C0131 is not present.
Conditions for Setting the DTC
C0161 00
• The Brake Pedal Position Sensor data is invalid.
• The Electronic Brake Control Module detects serial data fault.
• A reprogrammed Body Control Module will set this DTC if the Brake Pedal Position Sensor is not learned (Perform the BCM Brake Pedal Position Sensor Learn).
C0161 5A
• The Electronic Brake Control Module detects that the brake pedal is permanently applied; or the Body Control Module sends a serial data message that the brake is applied, the brake pressure is less than 483 kPa (70 psi), the vehicle speed is greater than 11 km/h (7 MPH), and the accelerator pedal is greater than 10% for 60 seconds.
• The Brake Pedal Position Sensor Signal is not plausible with the brake pressure sensor; or the brake is not applied and the brake pressure is greater than 1034 kPa (150 psi) for 1 second.
Action Taken When the DTC Sets
• The Stability Control indicator turns ON.
• The Traction Control Off indicator turns ON.
• The Stability Control Off indicator turns ON.
• The Electronic Brake Control Module disables the traction control and electronic stability control for the duration of the ignition cycle.
Conditions for Clearing the DTC
• When the condition for setting the DTC is no longer present.
• The history DTC will clear after 40 consecutive fault-free ignition cycles have occurred.

Note: During normal diagnostic and/or repair verification technicians may find that the ABS, Traction/stability Control indicators may be ON with NO DTCs displayed by the Electronic Brake Control Module. Do not replace the Electronic Brake Control Module for this condition.

If the ABS, Traction/stability Control indicators are ON with no DTCs set, perform the following steps:
1. Remove the key from the ignition, open and close the driver's door to turn off retained accessory power, and wait 60 seconds.
2. Ignition ON, if the ABS, Traction/stability Control indicators are still illuminated, operate the vehicle at speeds greater than 16 km/h (10 MPH) to complete the self test. The Electronic Brake Control Module should request all indicators to turn OFF.
3. If indicators remain ON with no DTCs set after the drive cycle, disconnect the battery for at least 60 seconds then reconnect the battery.
4. Operate the vehicle at speeds greater than 40 km/h (25 MPH), the Electronic Brake Control Module Should request all the indicators to turn OFF.
Reference Information
Schematic Reference

Antilock Brake System Schematics
Connector End View Reference

Component Connector End Views
Description and Operation

ABS Description and Operation
Electrical Information Reference
• Circuit Testing
• Connector Repairs
• Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections
• Wiring Repairs
Scan Tool Reference

Control Module References
Circuit/System Verification

Note: A reprogrammed Body Control Module will set this DTC if the Brake Pedal Position Sensor is not learned (Perform the BCM Brake Pedal Position Sensor Learn).

1. Ignition ON.
2. Verify the Body Control Module Brake Pedal Position Sensor Learned Released Position parameter is Yes.
If the parameter is not Yes.


Refer to Brake Pedal Position Sensor Calibration .

If the parameter is Yes

3. Verify that DTC C0277 or C0278 is not set.
If either DTC is set


Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle .

If either DTC is not set

4. Verify the Brake Pedal Position Sensor or the brake pedal are not binding causing residual brake pressure to be detected.
If a condition is found


Repair or replace the applicable component.

If a condition is not found

5. Verify the scan tool Electronic Brake Control Module Brake Pedal Position Sensor parameter changes between Active and Inactive when applying and releasing the brake pedal.
If the parameter does not change


Refer to Symptoms - Lighting .

If the parameter changes

6. Replace the Q5 Brake Pressure Modulator.
7. Verify the DTC does not set while operating the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC.
If the DTC sets


Replace the K17 Electronic Brake Control Module.

If the DTC does not set

8. All OK.
Repair Instructions

Perform the Diagnostic Repair Verification after completing the repair.
• Brake Pressure Modulator Valve Replacement
• Control Module References for Electronic Brake Control Module replacement, programming and setup
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:55 PM   #23
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I got GM to take back My 2012 Camaro SS and give Me another new one several weeks ago, after having it for 6 months and 4000 miles.

I did not have to pay a usage fee, although it would have amounted to less than $200. The usage fee is based from a calculation of the milage when the car was first taken to the dealership for the problem, not the milage when you give it back.

The process took about three weeks to complete after the regional rep approved it and sent it in to GM.

I did not go through a lawyer, I was lucky the dealership stated they could not figure the problem out with the help of GM engineers and told me I should get a buy back..

Just make sure you have good documentation.. I documented everything from to include phone calls..

The shame of it is the the replacement car I picked off the lot has an issue with undercarriage rust! They won't take this one back, but are compensating me with specific extended warranties & a GM performance axleback exhaust..
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #24
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kfm237, I am glad to hear things worked out for you. The extended warranty would cover the rust i hope. Every time i have an issue I called onstar to log a call. I also have all the paper work that the dealer give me and what they did to fix the issue. GM rep told me their main priority will be fixing the car and not switching it and that is all they can do. Too bad but I have to involve the lawyers at this point.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:38 AM   #25
Dan1028
Mechanical Engineer
 
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Drives: 2012 IBM Camaro 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfm237 View Post
The shame of it is the the replacement car I picked off the lot has an issue with undercarriage rust! They won't take this one back, but are compensating me with specific extended warranties & a GM performance axleback exhaust..


On a brand new car there is already undercarriage rust? That is simply unacceptable!! What are they doing to actually *fix the problem*?
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