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Old 07-05-2012, 10:39 PM   #26
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Well, just came back from little experiment drive. Started my stealth fighter up, and looked through my CD case, popped in Alter Bridge, "Ties that Bind", turned vol up, and hit the road on Sport mode, no paddles.[ Reset mpg avg MPG and then blasted some Creed, "Bullets".]

Took a trip around city, 10 miles. Avg speed was 22 mph (stopping, slowing down, etc). Had about 5 stop signs, 5 traffic lights. This time I accelerated more agressively, aroround 2500-3000 rpm untill I got to 45-50mph, and then "coasted" keeping it around 1200 rpm, and man, this car loves it. Great combo. Had to pass a slow a$$ truck in front of me slowing everyone down, and crossed 2 over-passes (uphill).

Looked at my avg MPG DIC, and 24.1 mpg avg

Amazing for a city drive! From now on, will only drive in Sport mode


Do you have a tune yet? You should see the night and day difference a tune makes on the automatics. We can make it shift harder and faster, and hold gears longer. Plus you get more power out of the car.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:16 PM   #27
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Do you have a tune yet? You should see the night and day difference a tune makes on the automatics. We can make it shift harder and faster, and hold gears longer. Plus you get more power out of the car.
No tune yet, but have heard of the trifecta tunes, its def something i'd try. An A6 with 323 hp should b feel more responsive and accelerate more effortlessly than what its set from factory. My wife's old 2004 sequoia tank with 240 hp snaps ur head back into seat when tapping throttle, yet my camaro v6 I have to aggresively step on gss around the 2500-3000 rpm range to feel like its alive? No way...its should feel like that at 1500 rpm, like an old freakin Sequoia, at least, lol.

GM def set some conservative parameters at low end. If a tune can make the car shift and accelerate better, increasing responsiveness, it would b sweet. Instead, to make it accelerate nicely i have to rev it around 3k rpm! It should b able to feel responsive @1500-2000rpm instead, no?

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Old 07-05-2012, 11:48 PM   #28
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For the a6 v6, we get 323 hp, but only 278 ft lb torque to move the 3700 lb beast. However, SS get 426hp and 420 ft lb torque, very close, for almost a 1:1 ratio.

The v6 should have something like 315-320 ft lb torque to get that similar to SS hp/torque ratio. Maybe GM purposely programed a torque reduction, or maybe its just the gearing.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:20 AM   #29
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Its the torque. Since you have a 2012 Camaro I would go get it tuned by a professional in your area. Your car can be read by EFI Live... Take advantage of it. I would kill for that!

Also, no offense but it seems like you drive EXTREMELY conservatively. I know you want MPG but if you wanted that much why didn't you just buy a smart car or something. This is a Camaro lol drive it like you stole it!
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:41 AM   #30
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No SS here, just the v6, but man an SS with even 75 shot of NOS would be crazy!

Love the challenge of the v6 and making the most of it. I think that installing a nos kit, leaning to one of those 3ple Threat kits, is a great way to have the 70-100 hp and torque ready to fire when needed, and thus have the SS feel and more at the flip of a hidden switch, for about $800, instead of paying $6000 for a supercharger.
One thing to remember, Nitrous is basically a "track only" thing... Using N2O on the street is illegal in the majority of states... Also, having used N2O myself, I really wouldn't want to use it anywhere beside the track... But that being said, the INSTANT TORQUE of N2O is a RUSH!!!! And is very additive and will leave you craving more!!
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:38 AM   #31
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Saw your thread yesterday and I really wanted to reply but the thread go closed lol.

First off, there is no way that Toyota Sequoia should be keeping up with your Camaro. That thing runs a 16+ second quarter mile on a good day whereas your car is capable of at least a mid 14. Average people don't realize that depending on how far you run, just a few car lengths is a KILLING...when they may be thinking..."wow just a few car lengths...thats keeping up". Its not.

I had a truck with a V8 with almost exact same HP/TQ output as the Sequoia but my truck was likely lighter, and I know it wouldn't keep up with my Camaro.

Lots of factors can go into making your car feel sluggish. 1)...its hot out. These cars do not run nearly as quick in hot temps. 2) If your car was heat soaked when you ran it (meaning you had driven it previously before it had enough time to fully cool off) that would have made it run much slower. 3) Sounds like you may not have driven it to its fully potential

Accept under hot conditions like it currently is, I don't really feel like my auto is a dog....of course I do have several mods on my car. My car feels pretty strong as it sits now. Also, in sport mode and under WOT my car will not shift until redline..so around 6,800 rpm. Your car should be doing the same.

Last thing...if you want to play around in your car a bit and learn which rpms are the most fun (in each particular gear) put it in manual mode and drive around that way. You will notice that stabbing the gas in 1st gear gives you that "head kick" that your looking for, and doing the same in 2nd gear when your rpms are around 4,000 or more will do the same. Even 3rd gear on the highway doing around 70 mph does it a little, but not as much as the two lower gears. I love playing around in manual mode, although if I'm going a timed 0 - 60 run I do it in sport mode because that is generally going to be the faster/easier way to do it.

Now get out there and have fun!
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:50 AM   #32
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Saw your thread yesterday and I really wanted to reply but the thread go closed lol.

First off, there is no way that Toyota Sequoia should be keeping up with your Camaro. That thing runs a 16+ second quarter mile on a good day whereas your car is capable of at least a mid 14. Average people don't realize that depending on how far you run, just a few car lengths is a KILLING...when they may be thinking..."wow just a few car lengths...thats keeping up". Its not.

I had a truck with a V8 with almost exact same HP/TQ output as the Sequoia but my truck was likely lighter, and I know it wouldn't keep up with my Camaro.

Lots of factors can go into making your car feel sluggish. 1)...its hot out. These cars do not run nearly as quick in hot temps. 2) If your car was heat soaked when you ran it (meaning you had driven it previously before it had enough time to fully cool off) that would have made it run much slower. 3) Sounds like you may not have driven it to its fully potential

Accept under hot conditions like it currently is, I don't really feel like my auto is a dog....of course I do have several mods on my car. My car feels pretty strong as it sits now. Also, in sport mode and under WOT my car will not shift until redline..so around 6,800 rpm. Your car should be doing the same.

Last thing...if you want to play around in your car a bit and learn which rpms are the most fun (in each particular gear) put it in manual mode and drive around that way. You will notice that stabbing the gas in 1st gear gives you that "head kick" that your looking for, and doing the same in 2nd gear when your rpms are around 4,000 or more will do the same. Even 3rd gear on the highway doing around 70 mph does it a little, but not as much as the two lower gears. I love playing around in manual mode, although if I'm going a timed 0 - 60 run I do it in sport mode because that is generally going to be the faster/easier way to do it.

Now get out there and have fun!
COMPLETELY!!!

One thing about the automatic... at light throttle, even in Sport mode it's pretty up-shift happy! So once you start rolling the car will up-shift to 2nd gear, which will feel sluggish! I had Vince re-adjust my shift point at light throttle, so even if I was say rolling through and intersection or pulling out into traffic on a turn, i would stay in 1st gear! That way when I was ready to punch it I would be in the RIGHT GEAR!! Made a huge difference in drivibility and FUN!
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:45 PM   #33
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Thx KM and scrming for ur help. Thats exactly how my car feels! Seems like the low end hift points are off, and has a sluggish feel to it. Should not have to be agressive on throttle, like punching it at 4000rpm for it to feel alive. The old sequoia in my example feels alive on a launch with a tap of throttle at around 1500rpm, where as in my A6, I have be agressive on throttle punching it around 3500rpm to get similar feel. Keep in mind im talking about normal driving, and not punching it at atrack.

In theory, the car should feel more responsive from factory. Its got the power. However, it seems gm went very conservative on low end responsiveness programming/set up, or the shift points are off, or the gearing.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:49 PM   #34
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Thx KM and scrming for ur help. Thats exactly how my car feels! Seems like the low end hift points are off, and has a sluggish feel to it. Should not have to be agressive on throttle, like punching it at 4000rpm for it to feel alive. The old sequoia in my example feels alive on a launch with a tap of throttle at around 1500rpm, where as in my A6, I have be agressive on throttle punching it around 3500rpm to get similar feel. Keep in mind im talking about normal driving, and not punching it at atrack.

In theory, the car should feel more responsive from factory. Its got the power. However, it seems gm went very conservative on low end responsiveness programming/set up, or the shift points are off, or the gearing.

You would think they would launch an iconic "sports/muscle" car to it's full capability. However, theres too many out there that want fuel economy... go buy a PRIUS.

Same issue with the pontiac's & caddy's I owned prior. Went to Vector Motorsports for ECM/TCM reflashes on those. Looks like trifecta may get my business as well with this car (severly disapointed).

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Old 07-06-2012, 12:52 PM   #35
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What screming just described above with regards to the car wanting to upshift, and fix by vince is exactly what im trying to say and accomplish...guess a tune is easiest way.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:58 PM   #36
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how much do those ported throttle bodies go for? honestly i think the money is well spent on a tune instead. its snaps your head back more. resets your computers knowledge of any driving habits
And as far as the whole "why get a tune" idea.. every car off the lot is restrictive due to emissions and state laws, so GM and other car companies have regulators or govenators to limit the cars performance.. tune it and let the beast outa the cage

and about the shifting.. mine never shifts under 3000. push it to redline! LFX can roar!
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:48 PM   #37
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how much do those ported throttle bodies go for?
$165 with shipping after you send our old one back. There's a $200 core charge in the meantime.

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Old 07-06-2012, 02:03 PM   #38
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Agreed that the A6 can come alive when flooring it or drving it agressively. Any v6 would do that as well if you drive it hard. Yes, my A6 1LT from a dead stop can launch and throw head back if I punch throttle and go wot, and at wot will redline shift...however, this is not what im worried or concerned about. Im not drag racing when going to work or daily driving, lol. So no need for wot, or rev it high to shift around 4000 rpm...this will eat up gas, and one of the big reasons I got the v6 was for mpg, too. Great car, good power, and great LFX engine that can give me 323 hp while also 24-26 avg mpg! If I wanted to drive it like a madman, amd not mind 18 avg mpg, I would have def gone SS route. Im sure with the auto SS, we dont have to punch the throttle to 3000-4000rpm pulling out of house to work to make it feel "alive".

Im just trying to figure out way to keep my nice 24 avg mpg, while getting my A6 V6 to feel responsive around 2000-2500 rpm. It's gotta be the Torque.

Hopefully a tb will help, amd surely a tune would do the same. Just wish I didnt have to spend money on that to begin with for a feel the car should have from factory, imo.

Last edited by Yohan; 07-06-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:42 PM   #39
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Do you have a tune yet? You should see the night and day difference a tune makes on the automatics. We can make it shift harder and faster, and hold gears longer. Plus you get more power out of the car.
I second BNRs statement. The tune is well worth the cost.....shifts like a beast IMO!
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:48 PM   #40
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Thx KM and scrming for ur help. Thats exactly how my car feels! Seems like the low end hift points are off, and has a sluggish feel to it. Should not have to be agressive on throttle, like punching it at 4000rpm for it to feel alive. The old sequoia in my example feels alive on a launch with a tap of throttle at around 1500rpm, where as in my A6, I have be agressive on throttle punching it around 3500rpm to get similar feel. Keep in mind im talking about normal driving, and not punching it at atrack.

In theory, the car should feel more responsive from factory. Its got the power. However, it seems gm went very conservative on low end responsiveness programming/set up, or the shift points are off, or the gearing.

Your really comparing apples to cookies though.

It's hard to find spec's on the 4.7L but I know it makes atleast 315tq at 3400 RPM. Your Camaro only makes 278tq at 4800 RPM. That is exactly why it feels good at 4000RPM and up. If you aren't driving the engine where it makes power, then it just doesn't make power. There is no magic trick to making a V6 drive like a V8 short of serious power adders. Big motors make power down low, little motors make power up high. That's why those Hondas have tachometers that get awful close to double digits.

My 1993 Chevrolet C1500 has a 5.3L LS V8 swapped into it. The engine is 100% stock, even still has the cast steel exhaust manifolds. It has a 4 speed automatic transmission. The only work is a custom computer tune. Stock the engine makes 285HP/335TQ. She feels VERY torquey off the line at low RPM and when running through the gears it feels like an animal. It would probably suck the paint off a 2004 Sequoia.

And down to the numbers, she's no faster than my Camaro

The car does have the power, you just aren't letting the car use it. A tune WILL make a noticeable difference, but it's not going to move the whole power band 2000RPM lower. The engine simply does not make power at 2000 RPM. Honestly, it's amazing with the cars high curb weight that what power it does have manages to move it around as well as it does. You'll gain back what GM took out with torque management and the extended shift points will keep the car in its happy place longer atleast.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:04 PM   #41
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Just went out for spin, and confirmed that at WOT, it defenitely shifts around the 4000-5000 rpm range---felt much better, more agressive, and more of what a sports car of this type should feel like

However, why does it seem to be sluggish under calm-moderate acceleration? It's like it's "bored" under conservative normal driving style, but really likes when u lay down the hammer. Of course, this eats up my gas, man. Left at 24.6 mpg avg, and now I'm down to 24.1 after more agressive WOT driving to Home-Depot, LOL.
Mine shifts very close to redline into 2nd. I could video it. I also have the A6.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:19 PM   #42
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Actually the V6 does have a nice broad torque curve. Look at any dyno and you can see it is making good torque from aroune 2,500 all the way until about it starts dropping off around 5,400 or so rpm.

But its not enough TQ to snap your head back....lets say for example at 2,500 in 2nd gear. I find you need to be going around 40+ or mph to get the feeling in 2nd. Also I find if your wanting to play a bit or have fun with your passenger, while in manual mode let off the gas a tad so the rpms drop and then stab at the gas. Makes for a nice jerk that will surely make your passengers head bounce back. I once made my wife a bit annoyed because I got on it doing that once and her head slammed against the headrest lol.

Now in first gear...I find that I can hit it from any rpm...even very low and she will rip hard....but thats to be expected in first gear.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:21 PM   #43
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You guys can always get smaller rear gears to torque it up
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:07 PM   #44
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Yohan love AB have all three albums! Seriously, you got to rev that thing, thats all it is. Get a catch can so youre not puking oil into the intake and let 'er rip!! I can hit about 100 in 3rd gear, this little car is under-rated! If there is a next Camaro, get the manual!!
What Simplegreen said too.

Last edited by Henry G.; 07-06-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:09 PM   #45
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You guys can always get smaller rear gears to torque it up
Wouldn't you want bigger gears for more torque? I believe the A6 is 2.97?
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:52 PM   #46
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Your really comparing apples to cookies though.

It's hard to find spec's on the 4.7L but I know it makes atleast 315tq at 3400 RPM. Your Camaro only makes 278tq at 4800 RPM. That is exactly why it feels good at 4000RPM and up. If you aren't driving the engine where it makes power, then it just doesn't make power. There is no magic trick to making a V6 drive like a V8 short of serious power adders. Big motors make power down low, little motors make power up high. That's why those Hondas have tachometers that get awful close to double digits.
Great post, and yes those are the torque numbers for the '04 Sequoia 4.7L. With those torque numbers, even though its a brontosaurus at 4600lbs, it just jumps when u tap the throttle from dead stop, and gets up to speed quickly, effortless.

With our 1LT A6, at only 278ft lb tq, seems like it's kind of low for the weight of the car.

As noted on the SS---426hp/420 ftlb TQ, almost a 1:1 hp/tq ratio---it can effortlessly accelerate and doesnt need to be revved to 4000 rpm to feel alive getting normal driving or a little agressive, I'm sure.

However, for our V6, we only get 278, and wish it was more like 317-320 ft lb TQ, for a similar HP/TQ ratio of 1:1, like an SS.

So why only 278? Is because it was programmed from GM this way, shift points, etc., or the gearing is not as good?

In meantime, I've def learned so far that it's ok to be more agressive on throttle on this car---seems like it likes to revved as you said, and gets bored and sluggish w/ lower rpm, LOL.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:35 PM   #47
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Yohan love AB have all three albums! Seriously, you got to rev that thing, thats all it is. Get a catch can so youre not puking oil into the intake and let 'er rip!! I can hit about 100 in 3rd gear, this little car is under-rated! If there is a next Camaro, get the manual!!
What Simplegreen said too.
Henry, ABIII & Creed, man

For now, I'll defenitely drive it in Sport mode, and use more rpm. For city, I just get up to 45-50mph faster, accelerating at 3-4ooo rpm, and once it hits 4th I just let it coast and keep it around 1200rpm and watch those mpg avg numbers soar, as I blast "Broken Wings", lol
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:22 PM   #48
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Get the exhaust and CAI if you can afford it. It will enhance a tune and/or intake if you decide later to pull those triggers. Honestly there is a nice gain from both.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:44 PM   #49
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Get the exhaust and CAI if you can afford it. It will enhance a tune and/or intake if you decide later to pull those triggers. Honestly there is a nice gain from both.
Got the CAI kit a few weeks ago, and lovin it. Now its a matter of making it more responsive in low end, and I think the ported TB should help.

Wish there were LFX programmers available already so I could play around with shift points. Someone mentioned that IFS Live reads the 2012? Wonder if hypertech is releasing something for our LFX anytime soon.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:53 PM   #50
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Wouldn't you want bigger gears for more torque? I believe the A6 is 2.97?
All V6s except the 2LS have 3.27 gearing.

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.........

So why only 278? Is because it was programmed from GM this way, shift points, etc., or the gearing is not as good?

.......
Actually 278 TQ is not too bad for this engine. Sure, 300 TQ would be nice, but look at many other potent V6s out there and you will find their TQ numbers are quite a bit lower than their HP figure. My numbers aren't exact, but the mustang V6 makes around 273TQ, and even the all mighty 370Z makes no more TQ than our car does. But both of these cars offer lower gearing and weigh less and so their straightline performance is better.

Look at the new Cadillac ATS with the LFX V6. It has the exact same 3.27 gearing, but weighs only about 3460 lbs compared to the Camaro V6 3750 lbs. The ATS is rated at 5.4 seconds 0 - 60 while the Camaro was rated 4 or 5 tenths of a second slower to 60 than that. Put lower gearing or add bolt ons to that ATS and suddenly you could have a V6 that will do the 0 - 60 in under 5 seconds.
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