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Old 07-06-2012, 11:11 PM   #52
Yohan
 
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Actually 278 TQ is not too bad for this engine. Sure, 300 TQ would be nice, but look at many other potent V6s out there and you will find their TQ numbers are quite a bit lower than their HP figure. My numbers aren't exact, but the mustang V6 makes around 273TQ, and even the all mighty 370Z makes no more TQ than our car does. .
The TQ is not bad, but our heavier Camaro v6 could use a boost in tq. But even a v6 Mustang with 305 hp and 273 tq = 1.11 ratio, where our Camaro has almost 1.17! Its the weight of our car that hurts us some, or the lack of torque.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:16 PM   #53
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I've had an L99 and currently have a 2012 SS M6. For kicks the other day, I went to the Chevy dealership and drove a V6 Camaro auto trans and I was very impressed by it's performance. I tried it at moderate throttle, wide open and in both manual and sport modes and it definitely has a lot of spunk for a V6. I wish I had the bucks for a second new car, it would definitely be one like yours.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:19 PM   #54
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Great post, and yes those are the torque numbers for the '04 Sequoia 4.7L. With those torque numbers, even though its a brontosaurus at 4600lbs, it just jumps when u tap the throttle from dead stop, and gets up to speed quickly, effortless.

With our 1LT A6, at only 278ft lb tq, seems like it's kind of low for the weight of the car.

As noted on the SS---426hp/420 ftlb TQ, almost a 1:1 hp/tq ratio---it can effortlessly accelerate and doesnt need to be revved to 4000 rpm to feel alive getting normal driving or a little agressive, I'm sure.

However, for our V6, we only get 278, and wish it was more like 317-320 ft lb TQ, for a similar HP/TQ ratio of 1:1, like an SS.

So why only 278? Is because it was programmed from GM this way, shift points, etc., or the gearing is not as good?

In meantime, I've def learned so far that it's ok to be more agressive on throttle on this car---seems like it likes to revved as you said, and gets bored and sluggish w/ lower rpm, LOL.
Because engines are still very much mechanical beings. It goes much deeper than computer work. Valve sizes, camshaft profiles, piston sizes, crank stroke, head flow, intakes, etc...the engine doesn't make high torque because that's not how small naturally aspirated V6s work. Its extremely common for a motor of the size to make more HP than TQ the way this one does. It's simply the nature of the beast.

The Ford Ecoboost 3.5L V6 makes 367HP at 5400 RPM and 420TQ at....2500 RPM. Because, among other things, they stuck twin blow dryers on it. That's the exception.

Yes, the 6.2L doesn't need to rev to 4000 to move because it makes far more power down low. You have to understand how an internal combustion engine works before you can compare to wildly different engines such as the LS3/L99 6.2L and the LFX 3.6L. They simply will NEVER act the same. They having nothing in common aside from running on gasoline. They make way different amounts of power in different places. No computer tune, CAI, exhaust, or rear end gears will make one act like the other. Short of $6K investment into forced induction a V6 is going to act like a V6.

278TQ isn't much for a 3700lb car, but if one drives that engine like GM designed it to be driven, it motivates these fat Camaros just fine

Stock for stock, it will never compare to a V8 but I wasn't spending $7500 more to get to a entry level 1SS and then paying even more on insurance than my already high truck premiums.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:20 PM   #55
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Here's a vid of 0-60 on a v6: Sure I can hammer it like that get it to shift near redline, but that's not how I get out of my driveway to go work, man I'm talking more about normal daily driving, especially low end, pulling out from stop or turning into street and then accelerating, etc---that's when the lag or sluggish feel seems be at when compared to a v8. Perhaps it was just that I was expecting my A6V6 to respond lowend like a v8, more alive, but instead we just gotta rev it more.

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Old 07-06-2012, 11:23 PM   #56
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Precisely. You MUST rev smaller motors to get power. Sad fact of life, lol.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:30 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by SimpleGreen View Post
Because engines are still very much mechanical beings. It goes much deeper than computer work. Valve sizes, camshaft profiles, piston sizes, crank stroke, head flow, intakes, etc...the engine doesn't make high torque because that's not how small naturally aspirated V6s work. Its extremely common for a motor of the size to make more HP than TQ the way this one does. It's simply the nature of the beast.
You're right. Makes sense. Guess I just was shocked by the Sequoia's 4.7L 240hp low end response even being so heavy, and then comparing that to me having to rev mine A6V6 to 4000rpm to get a similar feel. Have taken to heart and put into practice your advice of driving in Sport mode and just revving it more---so far so good. Getting good mpg still, and drving it more agressively is sweet on this car.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:33 PM   #58
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You're right. Makes sense. Guess I just was shocked by the Sequoia's 4.7L 240hp low end response even being so heavy, and then comparing that to me having to rev mine A6V6 to 4000rpm to get a similar feel. Have taken to heart and put into practice your advice of driving in Sport mode and just revving it more---so far so good. Getting good mpg still, and drving it more agressively is sweet on this car.
Hah, cool. Just gotta find your style.

It throws me for a loop too when I get in my truck. It drives like GARBAGE compared to my Camaro but the on tap power is superior.

Still LOVE my 1LT. Three months later and I still get excited to see it in the parking lot after work
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:41 PM   #59
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Same here. My next door neighbor looked at my 1LT today after work, and he couldn't believe I was getting 24.7 mpg ave on "this beast", lol.

These cars are just amazing. Would love to check out a simpler tuner/programmer to play around w/ shift points.

Last edited by Yohan; 07-06-2012 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:31 AM   #60
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@Yohan

I struggled with the moderate performance your speaking of... in the rare occasions I'm "conservatively" driving the car.

You should have noticed a pretty good difference when in "sport mode" rather than regular old drive. The MPG's don't fall off by any huge amount either (unless WOL'ing it for fun but thats the case in D as well - shifts are just sooner).

The way this car gets it's higher mpg is thru AFM "active fuel management". It's genious & crap at the same time IMO. The car drops from 6 active firing cylinders to 4. So at low torque & heavy curb weight... your now trying to move this car on a 4 banger rather than a 6. That causes the lug & when radio off the chatter/vibration noise from below (2nd thru 3rd gear). WRONG, TRY AGAIN - Thanks AngryBird!

As I stated before I have had this issue in many GM cars. You can complain till blue in the face, nothing they are going to change or "fix" from factory standpoint.

I personally do not have the trifecta tune, but have driven others with it & the TCM modification they provide corrects this immensely. I have had other tunes on my prior pontiac g6 & g8... as well as my Cadillac CTS. They all experianced issues in different shift points as well & were corrected/improved by aftermarket solutions.

Good luck!

Last edited by shadycamaro; 07-07-2012 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:43 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadycamaro View Post
@Yohan


The way this car gets it's higher mpg is thru AFM "active fuel management". It's genious & crap at the same time IMO. The car drops from 6 active firing cylinders to 4. So at low torque & heavy curb weight... your now trying to move this car on a 4 banger rather than a 6. That causes the lug & when radio off the chatter/vibration noise from below (2nd thru 3rd gear).

As I stated before I have had this issue in many GM cars. You can complain till blue in the face, nothing they are going to change or "fix" from factory standpoint.


Good luck!
Umm the 6 does not have AFM. I don't know where you got that info. Only the SS L99 with auto transmission has AFM.
Mine does not vibrate or chatter at low RPMs and neither did my 2010.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:00 AM   #62
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Umm the 6 does not have AFM. I don't know where you got that info. Only the SS L99 with auto transmission has AFM.
Mine does not vibrate or chatter at low RPMs and neither did my 2010.

Must have mis-read that along the way... thanks for the quick correction & sorry for mis-information.

So, I guess it's just the factory TCM shift points then. I have seen many people complaining about the same performance lag on here. The vibration/chatter I experianced (although on a 2012)... I found may be due to bad exhaust from factory (which I believe many either 2010/11 owners experianced - you had to bang at rear to confirm & GM genrally replaced to correct). I've replaced mine with aftermarket recently & no longer hear that over the new exhaust note


Thanks again for the AFM info, no strikethru available in edit...
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:01 AM   #63
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As far as tunes go, came across this: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79922

Are the tunes detectable or not? Pretty strong challenge right there. GM seems to be prety tough on tunes, taking hardline against anyone caught with one:(
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:07 AM   #64
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@Shady--sport mode is the only way I'll be driving my car with. Shifts are a little better as they are a little longer. MPG is the same pretty much, too. This should be the default setting from factory. Its a sports car, and should feel sport mode like from get go, man!
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:43 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
@Shady--sport mode is the only way I'll be driving my car with. Shifts are a little better as they are a little longer. MPG is the same pretty much, too. This should be the default setting from factory. Its a sports car, and should feel sport mode like from get go, man!
If you go with trifecta, their tune can be set to replace sport mode & then drive would still be available for good mpg on trips/long distance. They are the only one I know of that offer transparency mode.

"I have not inquired if sport could be moved to drive & theirs on sport (now that would be an awesome combo).


Per their website & other threads read:

Tune Transparency (EZ Flash only, most vehicles supported)

In an effort to integrate our custom tuning with your vehicle as seemlessly as possible, our tunes now include an optional feature called "tune transparency". Modern day vehicles are getting increasingly complex, with communications occurring between many different modules in the vehicle. With our "tune transparency" option enabled, our Trifecta tune will appear to be completely stock to all other modules in the vehicle. This optional feature is provided to allow our customers to choose an additional level of transparency with our products.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:48 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
As far as tunes go, came across this: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79922

Are the tunes detectable or not? Pretty strong challenge right there. GM seems to be prety tough on tunes, taking hardline against anyone caught with one:(
My prior GM dealership could see my vector motorsports ecm & tcm modify. They didn't void my warranty, b/c they can't unless the tune directly results in the failure. It can be argued either way, but you will certainly loose if the dealership is not on your side from the start. Talk to the service manager you take your car too & find out how mod friendly they are. You'd be surprised
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:00 PM   #67
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Wouldn't you want bigger gears for more torque? I believe the A6 is 2.97?
Actually, the bigger the ratio number, the smaller the gear. If you guys are running 3.27, then I would say look into 3.70 and up...4.10's were used in the past to give v6 engines more of a v8 feel.
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:17 PM   #68
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Saw the tune video. Yeah my LFX chirps going into second too, with the TC still turned on. You dont need a supercharger or tune to do that.
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