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Old 05-20-2009, 06:36 PM   #1
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Political Sub-Forum

Please create a sub-forum for political discussion. Having a GM forum without being able to use the word Democrat or Republican is like having a grass forum without being able to use the word green. Today more than ever politics is intermingled with General Motors cars.

If people are worried about heated discussions, disagreements, etc., then make a warning for everyone who enters the political sub-forum to the effect: This political forum is unmoderated; enter at your own risk. If you have something to say, be sure you can back it up or else you might be eaten alive!
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:39 PM   #2
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It's been tried here before...and now it's gone.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:50 PM   #3
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Forget it. Ended in disaster last time.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:51 PM   #4
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireball View Post
Please create a sub-forum for political discussion. Having a GM forum without being able to use the word Democrat or Republican is like having a grass forum without being able to use the word green. Today more than ever politics is intermingled with General Motors cars.

If people are worried about heated discussions, disagreements, etc., then make a warning for everyone who enters the political sub-forum to the effect: This political forum is unmoderated; enter at your own risk. If you have something to say, be sure you can back it up or else you might be eaten alive!
It isn't about being moderated or not- it is about peoples voice being bigger than others- calling names, never breaking down and admitting you were wrong, and throwing derogatory comments around when they are face to face with a differing opinion.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:58 PM   #6
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I think it is something this forum gravely lacks..Especially now that GM is owned by the Government.. Censoring political talk is only helping squelch any talk that goes against what the current administration is doing.. With the liberal bias in the media, the internet is the only place people will be able to hear opposing views. What better place than a forum based on a GM vehicle like this one for people to hear dissenting views.. My opinion of course.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:59 PM   #7
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I think it is something this forum gravely lacks..Especially now that GM is owned by the Government.. Censoring political talk is only helping squelch any talk that goes against what the current administration is doing.. With the liberal bias in the media, the internet is the only place people will be able to hear opposing views. What better place than a forum based on a GM vehicle like this one for people to hear dissenting views.. My opinion of course.
You mean this isn't a mustang forum? lol
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:02 PM   #8
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It is a lose-lose for the forum. It is tough having to avoid all political discussions but at the same time the one that used to exist was a constant headache...politics bring out the worst in everyone, no doubt.

I still think we should have a bashing forum that was restriced access for members-only and was less strictly moderated. In there you could get whatever you wanted off your chest...if you didn't want to be involved avoid the entire forum.

But that's just me, and this isn't an aggressive forum, they like they laid back atmosphere.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
I think it is something this forum gravely lacks..Especially now that GM is owned by the Government.. Censoring political talk is only helping squelch any talk that goes against what the current administration is doing.. With the liberal bias in the media, the internet is the only place people will be able to hear opposing views. What better place than a forum based on a GM vehicle like this one for people to hear dissenting views.. My opinion of course.
Example of why this already a bad idea -

My "angry" response: I thought this was supposed to be support of a political forum, not a paranoia forum....

My "correct" response: You are right, people should be able to speak, but unfortunately there was a reason the mod's took down the political section.

The difference between which I type would be the mood I was in for the day and if anyone was pushing me earlier in the thread- it can only spell disaster as I know other people decide what to write depending on how the rest of their day was as well.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Kyle2k View Post
Example of why this already a bad idea -

My "desired" response: I thought this was supposed to be support of a political forum, not a paranoia forum....

My "correct" response: You are right, people should be able to speak, but unfortunately there was a reason the mod's took down the political section.

The difference between which I type would be the mood I was in for the day and if anyone was pushing me earlier in the thread- it can only spell disaster as I know other people decide what to write depending on how the rest of their day was as well.
good point, but i do believe that's why the idea of having a disclaimer was mentioned
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:23 PM   #11
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good point, but i do believe that's why the idea of having a disclaimer was mentioned
There are no disclaimers for bringing moods into other forums. Which was my point.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:32 PM   #12
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I supported having a political forum back in the fall. The staff had a lengthy discussion both before it was created and after it was removed. We (the staff) figured we (as a site) could handle it, our members were mature and had many respectful discussions on political related topics. Oops.

It was removed because a lack respect quickly developed and there was too much spill over into the other areas of the site. The debates turned into arguments. It was a mess and a massive failure. We are welcome to having a political forum IF our members can prove that they an intelligent and reasonable discussion of the issues at hand. But as long as there are too many members that can't tell the difference between a Democrat and a Communist or a Republican and a Fascist it isn't going to happen.

This is a private forum, owned by Tran. He has ultimate say as to whats allowable here and what isn't. The moderation team is here enforce the rules here and keep the discussion from heading to disaster.

That said, there isn't a complete ban on political discussion. But we are very strict on what is allowed. Essentially, discus the topic and not the political nature of the topic.
Difficult to say the least, but its the only viable option that we saw.

Here's an example to show the difference between what we want and what we don't want.

The government is creating a new, higher CAFE standard - perfectly fine.

Those damm democrat tree huggers want to take away our V8's - nope.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I supported having a political forum back in the fall. The staff had a lengthy discussion both before it was created and after it was removed. We (the staff) figured we (as a site) could handle it, our members were mature and had many respectful discussions on political related topics. Oops.

It was removed because a lack respect quickly developed and there was too much spill over into the other areas of the site. The debates turned into arguments. It was a mess and a massive failure. We are welcome to having a political forum IF our members can prove that they an intelligent and reasonable discussion of the issues at hand. But as long as there are too many members that can't tell the difference between a Democrat and a Communist or a Republican and a Fascist it isn't going to happen.

This is a private forum, owned by Tran. He has ultimate say as to whats allowable here and what isn't. The moderation team is here enforce the rules here and keep the discussion from heading to disaster.

That said, there isn't a complete ban on political discussion. But we are very strict on what is allowed. Essentially, discus the topic and not the political nature of the topic.
Difficult to say the least, but its the only viable option that we saw.

Here's an example to show the difference between what we want and what we don't want.

The government is creating a new, higher CAFE standard - perfectly fine.

Those damm democrat tree huggers want to take away our V8's - nope.


Unfortunately, we're not inclined to go down that road again. The many "panic du'jours" as Fbodfather would put it, and various doomsday threads illustrate to us that the site membership as a whole is not ready for a section like that, again.

It was and still is a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work.

Sorry.

As DGthe3 said, though -- there is no outright ban on mentioning political items like CAFE, or other issues surrounding GM...just don't get into the politics of the subject. It is very possible to do; if you have a question on 'how', give us an example and we'll be happy to demonstrate.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:55 PM   #14
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It's been tried here before...and now it's gone.
Yes, it died a fast but still painful death...
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:16 PM   #15
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How can you discuss this article below without talking politics?? It would be a rather boring discussion and useless in my opinion.. It is and always will be two sides to every political issue. In this case of what is happening...Can we all afford to sit back and say nothing about what is going on??? And DGthe3, My neighbor is getting married to his tree

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090520/AUTO01/905200376/Feds-to-inject-$7.5B-more-into-GMAC

Feds to inject $7.5B more into GMAC
David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau


Washington -- The Treasury Department is preparing to announce as early as today that it will invest an additional $7.5 billion in GMAC LLC in a deal that could allow the U.S. government to hold a majority stake in the Detroit-based auto finance company.

GMAC, whose financial good health is key to providing loans for consumers to buy General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC vehicles, has been in talks for several weeks to secure additional capital. It had hoped to close the deal last week.

In December, the U.S. Treasury invested $5 billion in GMAC by buying preferred stock in the finance company. That stock carries a 9 percent dividend, but has no voting rights. Treasury also loaned GM nearly $900 million to buy GMAC stock.

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If the Treasury exercised its options from those investments, which would give it voting rights, it could own about 35 percent of GMAC, a person familiar with the matter said Tuesday.

The person said the additional $7.5 billion could allow the Treasury Department to claim a majority stake in GMAC, if it chose to do so. The percentage of that potential ownership stake is unclear.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said this month that the government was preparing to provide "substantial support" to GMAC. The Treasury Department has said it will infuse more capital into GMAC to allow it to assume lending operations for Chrysler dealers and consumers from Chrysler Financial. GMAC was supposed to take over lending for Chrysler Financial on May 15, but that is on hold until it obtains government aid.

The Treasury and Federal Reserve Board this month announced GMAC needs $11.5 billion in additional capital reserves as the result of government stress tests. The additional assistance to be announced this week is likely not the end of government support for GMAC.

GMAC spokeswoman Gina Proia said Tuesday the company was still in talks with Treasury about the amount of the financial support -- both for its capital requirements and to take over lending for Chrysler.

"Clearly, those are two areas where we are focusing on and we are having dialogue about support," Proia said.

By Thursday, GMAC is set to complete reconstituting its board of directors. Its major shareholders -- including GM -- are also working to divest their holdings to no more than 9.9 percent of GMAC's stock as part of the agreement that allowed GMAC to become a bank holding company, and thus eligible for federal bailout funds. GM no longer has any representation on GMAC's board, even though it temporarily holds 60 percent of GMAC.

GMAC said earlier this month that it was working to shore up its capital.

"Ensuring the availability of credit to consumers and businesses is a key component in stabilizing the economy and a top priority at GMAC," said GMAC chief executive officer Alvaro G. de Molina. "We support the government's efforts to shore up the banking system and expect that the additional capital raised will further strengthen GMAC and aid in achieving our strategic objectives."

GMAC seeks to obtain the additional capital by Nov. 9, and said it would file a plan with the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago on how it will do so by June 8.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:18 AM   #16
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You can discuss the companies financial implications of this. Discuss what impact it will have on GM, if any....DON'T discuss which party is 'right'...what policies are appropriate...how wrong or right you think the administration is. None of that is relevant or welcome.

We're not insinuating that these topics are unimportant...in fact, to many of us, they're very important...but there's a time and place -- neither of which is here on Camaro5.com.
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:36 AM   #17
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I think an important issue that DGthe3 brought up is hard feelings spilling out of the political sub-forum and into the rest of the forums. Separate and disclaim it all you want, but once you digitally/virtually punch another forum member in the face during a heated debate/argument in the political sub-forum, you can't just go back into the rest of the forums and be best buds again like nothing happened. Your memory isn't erased when you leave, so hard feelings persist.

Like any good statement, discussion of political topics should debate the idea and not the person or party. If done objectively, rationally, on-topic, and with respect, we shouldn't have a problem.
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