ZL1 vs GT500 This Friday.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

LOL i tried to tell them it was this exact tire he was running if he were runnin a tire at all.

You tried to tell him what he was Thinking... all he said was M/T. We all know what tire he was running... and it was not stock

[mlee]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

Snooping around svtp i tend to like this guys posts a lot. Besides the talk about us over here at c5 he makes very very valid points about the cars. This may be the beat post ive seen in this entire debate to date...

So now you're re-posting for The Pill... the "self proclaimed" #1 Camaro 5's most wanted. I guess since Revan proclaims himself as C5's #2 most wanted you would fall to #3. Nice work.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

Van, who was the person that REPOSTED something from svtp just a few minutes before i did?? If youre #2 i guess hes #3 and im #4...

LOL Who give a crap..

as a bonified Troll... YOU re-posted this guys post... Van claims to be his #2...

Enough said...

[newmoon]

I would still like to see a bone stock race between a ZL1 automatic car vs a 13 500 at a local track on a street night, with the actual owners driving their cars. No tunes, no suspension mods, no drag radials, just stock.

[Bolt-onC6]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I would still like to see a bone stock race between a ZL1 automatic car vs a 13 500 at a local track on a street night, with the actual owners driving their cars. No tunes, no suspension mods, no drag radials, just stock.

Let see what the cars are capable. Both stock with exception of sticky tires on both cars, both manual tranny with good drivers and in low DA so no excuses of "heat soak".

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Bolt-onC6

Let see what the cars are capable. Both stock with exception of sticky tires on both cars, both manual tranny with good drivers and in low DA so no excuses of "heat soak".

I really could care less about modded. I want to see the two cars line up as they came out of the factory with the actual owners driving them. Something we would see at out local track on street night.

Lets set up a Mid-Atlantic event, I know there are a few of each running around Hampton Roads and the DC area. Friday nights at Virginia Motorsports Park would be a great venue.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Bolt-onC6

Let see what the cars are capable. Both stock with exception of sticky tires on both cars, both manual tranny with good drivers and in low DA so no excuses of "heat soak".

If you want to compare best vs best with DR's on, then the Auto would be the choice for the ZL1. Just becuse the Shelby doesn't offer it doesn't mean it should be off the table.

Also get rid of those heavy premium wheels too.

[Bolt-onC6]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

While i agree, "heat soak" isnt an excuse. It is what it is. Id like to see it right now in the middle of summer to be honest. That would put the cars through a real test and show which one is not only faster but better engineered.

My prediction in -500 DA, both stick shift, same great driver, and both the same sticky tire and equal traction...

GT500- 10.7@129
ZL1-11.6@120

Correct me if im wrong but didnt we already have a ZL1 with just big and littles go 11.4? I wanna say the da was something crazy low tho...

Some seem to be using the "heat soak" as an excuse why I suggested a low DA. But yes both in same ambient regardless should indicate the winner or at least the better engineered for performance.

We have had numbers differing quite a lot. Another reason to line them up the way I suggested. Based on what everyone else is running I agree that 11.4 had to have been in a low DA.

[Bolt-onC6]

Originally Posted by mlee

If you want to compare best vs best with DR's on, then the Auto would be the choice for the ZL1. Just becuse the Shelby doesn't offer it doesn't mean it should be off the table.

Trure but an attempt to keep the belivers and unbelievers without their normal excuses.

[2cnd chance]

Oh, wrong forum I'm looking for Camaro5 not a Mustang forum.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

Ok so it was modded heavy. Had LCA's and tires, those two mods gave the Shelby the 13mph advantage.

Modded 'heavy'? Not hardly, More like "baby step". What they really mean here is that a less skilled driver has less going against him when the chips are down, and he'll be more likely to come close to the advertised claims.

On a good day I can keep my car down out of hop on a fairly hard launch at autocross - most runs. But there will be times where I just have to get out of it and throw the run away.


What I really want to see (and would go to watch) is the road course rematch that the video claims is on. I'm thinking (hoping) NJMP . . .


Norm

[Van@RevanRacing]

Originally Posted by mlee

The owner himself admitted the tires weren't stock. That's it.. the rest of the car was bone stock.
Great run for the GT500 with some crappy 60' times on DR's, terrible run all the way around from the bone stock ZL1... End of story.

If you want to start throwing out your SVT links you might want to start w/ this one...

Attachment 400869

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

Damn Van didnt realize these STOCK GT500's were on the TAIL of MODDED ZR1's around the track!!! Sounds like if you had his mods you would've ran better times!! Now thats AMAZING!!! Id have to agree its in a class of its own!! For flat out performance wise the ZL1 def isnt in its class, and when you factor in price and performance not even the mighty ZR1 can touch it.

Precisely what I was saying.

Originally Posted by mlee

So now you're re-posting for The Pill... the "self proclaimed" #1 Camaro 5's most wanted. I guess since Revan proclaims himself as C5's #2 most wanted you would fall to #3. Nice work.

I never proclaimed myself C5's #2 most wanted. I said I was "going for #2" I know "The Pill" and I also knew that post would get read and or re-posted over here.

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

Van, who was the person that REPOSTED something from svtp just a few minutes before i did?? If youre #2 i guess hes #3 and im #4...

I'm not #2 Most Wanted. Which I think is hysterical that there would be a #1 or #2 or whatever. This is all fun.

I'm looking forward to some match ups. Any local ZL1's down here in South Florida?

I'll return my car to stock and let's go run em' at the drag strip at PBIR.

I still have stock tires!

I am by no means a drag racer. I'll hold my own on a road course but I'll throw it out there if anybody is South Florida with a ZL1 that is stock or close to it I'll try my hand at drag racing.

[PistonsFan]

Comparing a GT500 to a ZR1... that's good humor!

[Van@RevanRacing]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

One would think based on price...

Why do ppl think so highly of this ZR1??? But fight tooth and nail to NOT give the GT500 its props?? At the end of the day the ZR1 is still JUST a Vette with good brakes,fancy suspension, and a engine that IMO isnt as impressive as the $50k Mustangs.

We have a guy with REAL WORLD experience telling up how he was nipping at the heels of one around a round course, and a modded one no less. Ppl want to glorify the ZR1 like its some Italian exotic. Its NOT even tho it may outperform some of them. The same applies to the Shelby. At the end of the day it may outperform some exotics but its still JUST a mustang.

Its a tough pill to swallow but the Shelby and ZR1 is closer to performance than the Shelby and ZL1. Just go look up some ZR1 videos. They have a bunch running at PBIR with traps speeds very similiar to the Shelby only the ZR1 was tuned...

The owner of the ZR1 with whom I have raced against in NASA Time Trials for years is a good guy and we had a nice conversation about each of the cars and the set ups. His chin dropped when I told him the price of my GT500 and realizing the little mods that were done to it and how well the car was performing at Sebring. After all, he did start behind me on grid.............

The ZR1 is a great car and I enjoy tracking against ALL CARS regardless of make or model. So my next step will likely be some minor suspension mods and some 18" rims, R-compound tires, aggressive pads and stainless steel brake lines for the next NASA event at Sebring in October.

I'm not going to try and beat the ZR1/Z06/ZL1/ZBoxster/Z911/ZMiata/ZBus as much as attempt to get the best possible lap time I can out of my GT500 with as little modification as possible while sustaining good drive ability and ride quality. All this and driving it to the track. Lap Times speak for themselves. Then people will always have an opinion about the capacity of the driver, or he has more mods than he does.

We do what is within the rule book. I will likely bump down to TTU and run in the same class with the ZR1 as my power to weight ratio is greater than 5.5:1.

[04svtsnke]

Originally Posted by Van@RevanRacing

The owner of the ZR1 with whom I have raced against in NASA Time Trials for years is a good guy and we had a nice conversation about each of the cars and the set ups. His chin dropped when I told him the price of my GT500 and realizing the little mods that were done to it and how well the car was performing at Sebring. After all, he did start behind me on grid.............

The ZR1 is a great car and I enjoy tracking against ALL CARS regardless of make or model. So my next step will likely be some minor suspension mods and some 18" rims, R-compound tires, aggressive pads and stainless steel brake lines for the next NASA event at Sebring in October.

I'm not going to try and beat the ZR1/Z06/ZL1/ZBoxster/Z911/ZMiata/ZBus as much as attempt to get the best possible lap time I can out of my GT500 with as little modification as possible while sustaining good drive ability and ride quality. All this and driving it to the track. Lap Times speak for themselves. Then people will always have an opinion about the capacity of the driver, or he has more mods than he does.

We do what is within the rule book. I will likely bump down to TTU and run in the same class with the ZR1 as my power to weight ratio is greater than 5.5:1.

Thanks for the post van. I hope you continue tearing it up on the track and proving people wrong.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Van@RevanRacing

I never proclaimed myself C5's #2 most wanted. I said I was "going for #2" I know "The Pill" and I also knew that post would get read and or re-posted over here.

Hey you put it out there... and there are more similar ones. Just sayin..

Not sure why someone who hates C5 so much would even be here other than to stir the pot.

That being said, I do appreciate the goals you have set for your build. Good stuff.

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

One would think based on price...

Why do ppl think so highly of this ZR1??? But fight tooth and nail to NOT give the GT500 its props?? At the end of the day the ZR1 is still JUST a Vette with good brakes,fancy suspension, and a engine that IMO isnt as impressive as the $50k Mustangs.

We have a guy with REAL WORLD experience telling up how he was nipping at the heels of one around a round course, and a modded one no less. Ppl want to glorify the ZR1 like its some Italian exotic. Its NOT even tho it may outperform some of them. The same applies to the Shelby. At the end of the day it may outperform some exotics but its still JUST a mustang.

Its a tough pill to swallow but the Shelby and ZR1 is closer to performance than the Shelby and ZL1. Just go look up some ZR1 videos. They have a bunch running at PBIR with traps speeds very similiar to the Shelby only the ZR1 was tuned...

So you're butt hurt that some folks (not me) on a Camaro site no less, haven't given props the GT500... have some more cool-aid.

...then you do the same and start spouting off about the ZR1 vette. Real smart guy, way to get your point across..

Originally Posted by 04svtsnke

Thanks for the post van. I hope you continue tearing it up on the track and proving people wrong.

So really, who's to prove wrong. Just because your trolling a Camaro site it doesn't automatically mean that everyone has to be proven wrong. I think his record speaks for itself.

_________________________________________

And now that we are way off topic. This race is pretty much in the books. Taking driver experience, the car configuration and the individual runs into account, there was nothing really out of the ordinary except for the low trap speeds. I also haven't heard what PTM mode this guy was in.

Hopefully it happens again with more experienced drivers and the same tires on both cars. Would like to see the lightweight black SST wheels and an Auto ZL1 go at it also. There are a lot of modes in the ZL1 that need to be explored. I'll make my way through them soon enough, but I expect turning everything off and not using launch control will end up best as it was with the SS. Nannies rob power and I hoped this wouldn't be the case with the PTM modes. Who knows at this point. Guess I'll just find out on my own. Practice Practice...


.

[Van@RevanRacing]

Originally Posted by mlee

Not sure why someone who hates C5 so much would even be here other than to stir the pot.

That being said, I do appreciate the goals you have set for your build. Good stuff.

.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I hate C5. I've had a lot of good discussions with fellow gear heads on this site. We are on different sides of the fence as to what product (Ford or Chevy) is superior performance wise.

Thanks for the compliment on the build.

I guess the one thing we all have in common is the enjoyment of going fast!

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Van@RevanRacing

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I hate C5. I've had a lot of good discussions with fellow gear heads on this site. We are on different sides of the fence as to what product (Ford or Chevy) is superior performance wise.

Thanks for the compliment on the build.

I guess the one thing we all have in common is the enjoyment of going fast!

I can agree with that... we're just on opposite sides of the fence... Cheers..

[tnspd]

Mustangs just suck all the way around.......

[GrabberB5.Slow]

Originally Posted by tnspd

Mustangs just suck all the way around.......

Yeah, I agree

[IOMZL1]

Yes, the Mustang is better at acceleration... 0-60; 0-75; 0-100; 0-150; 1/4 mile.... Why not list every stat at 10MPH increments 0-10; 0-20; 0-30; 0-40.... so that there are more little green 'win' boxes for the GT500. Or distill these down to one or two acceleration metrics (0-60 and 1/4mile) and add some that favor the ZL1. There are many ways to manipulate data to prove a point.

[GrabberB5.Slow]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

Yes, the Mustang is better at acceleration... 0-60; 0-75; 0-100; 0-150; 1/4 mile.... Why not list every stat at 10MPH increments 0-10; 0-20; 0-30; 0-40.... so that there are more little green 'win' boxes for the GT500. Or distill these down to one or two acceleration metrics (0-60 and 1/4mile) and add some that favor the ZL1. There are many ways to manipulate data to prove a point.

You completely missed the point.

But if you want to play that game, tell me what acceleration metric would favor the ZL1? Also, the GT500 is consistent in everything in that chart from all magazines where the ZL1 differs it's wins between them.

I'm all for giving the ZL1 credit where it's due, I think it's a gorgeous car. Just don't care for some people who just throw their idiotic views out there.

[GoldenBear]

There appear to be some Ford fans that don't like the fact that the first four magazines that compared and reviewed the 2013 GT500 and the ZL1 all chose the ZL1 as the better vehicle.

There are those who point out that the four road course tests came out with the GT500 having a faster lap on one course, the ZL1 performing better on another, with the same lap time for both vehicles on another, and with a split result on the fourth (faster first lap for the GT500 and faster last lap by the ZL1) for a 1-1-2 record, with the ZL1 being the easier vehicle to drive on the road courses.

Ford fans are quick to point out that the GT500 is faster in a straight line. However, it's not the 1960s anymore when "muscle" cars of that era were judged mainly on straight line acceleration. Today's high performance vehicles are judged on much more than simply straight line acceleration, such as on handling, slalom and skidpad, braking, drivability, comfort, and styling.

The street road tests showed the ZL1 to be the better vehicle in that area.

Therefore, given the overall performance of each vehicle over each of the tested areas, including in real world everyday driving, all four reviews chose the ZL1 as the better overall vehicle between the two.

However, if one is mainly interested in drag racing, the 2013 GT500 may well be the better choice between the two vehicles.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

There appear to be some Ford fans that don't like the fact that the first four magazines that compared and reviewed the 2013 GT500 and the ZL1 all chose the ZL1 as the better vehicle.

There are those who point out that the four road course tests came out with the GT500 having a faster lap on one course, the ZL1 performing better on another, with the same lap time for both vehicles on another, and with a split result on the fourth (faster first lap for the GT500 and faster last lap by the ZL1) for a 1-1-2 record, with the ZL1 being the easier vehicle to drive on the road courses.

Ford fans are quick to point out that the GT500 is faster in a straight line. However, it's not the 1960s anymore when "muscle" cars of that era were judged mainly on straight line acceleration. Today's high performance vehicles are judged on much more than simply straight line acceleration, such as on handling, slalom and skidpad, braking, drivability, comfort, and styling.

The street road tests showed the ZL1 to be the better vehicle in that area.

Therefore, given the overall performance of each vehicle over each of the tested areas, including in real world everyday driving, all four reviews chose the ZL1 as the better overall vehicle between the two.

However, if one is mainly interested in drag racing, the 2013 GT500 may well be the better choice between the two vehicles.

If one is deciding which car is best for them, I agree drivability, comfort, and styling come into play. However, in determining which car is, "faster" these factors are a non-issue. IMO this is where the disconnect is, like I said before. The zl1 excels in aspects that are less easily quantified. There is no metric for how easy a car is to drive or how comfortable it will be over bumps. The gt500 is a brute that downright performs, but in the less quantitative aspects falls short of the zl1. Again, a good parallel is z06 vs gtr. The z06 can be faster in almost all categories with a great driver that has a lot of seat time, but the gtr is much easier to go fast in, more confidence-inspiring, and more comfortable.

[TheReaper]

I agree that the GT500 is a better car but I would still own a ZL1 if the chance comes my way.

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

There appear to be some Ford fans that don't like the fact that the first four magazines that compared and reviewed the 2013 GT500 and the ZL1 all chose the ZL1 as the better vehicle.

There are those who point out that the four road course tests came out with the GT500 having a faster lap on one course, the ZL1 performing better on another, with the same lap time for both vehicles on another, and with a split result on the fourth (faster first lap for the GT500 and faster last lap by the ZL1) for a 1-1-2 record, with the ZL1 being the easier vehicle to drive on the road courses.

Ford fans are quick to point out that the GT500 is faster in a straight line. However, it's not the 1960s anymore when "muscle" cars of that era were judged mainly on straight line acceleration. Today's high performance vehicles are judged on much more than simply straight line acceleration, such as on handling, slalom and skidpad, braking, drivability, comfort, and styling.

The street road tests showed the ZL1 to be the better vehicle in that area.

Therefore, given the overall performance of each vehicle over each of the tested areas, including in real world everyday driving, all four reviews chose the ZL1 as the better overall vehicle between the two.

However, if one is mainly interested in drag racing, the 2013 GT500 may well be the better choice between the two vehicles.