ZL1 vs Mustang Boss 302

[Taser Deployed]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

Guys, like I mentioned in the first line, I'm not trying to start a war but to give you my honest opinion about my previous 2 choices of a new car. As background, I've only owned Fords since 2001 - a contour, a new focus and a used focus ST. I loved them and never had problems. I actually spoke with a Ford dealer to reserve a Boss but after test driving the ZL1 I threw that option out the window. So I don't think I'm biased, I don't care about the brand, just the car.

All I'm saying is that I was Not Impressed with the Boss. It's a little stiffer and quicker than the GT. It's Not Exciting compared to the ZL1. And again, I know they're not on the same level but they were the 2 cars on my prior short list. I would pick the ZL1 again with my eyes closed. The Ford's exhaust sound is 1/3 of the ZL1's sound volume, unless you probably open the side exhausts which is illegal on the street. As I'll probably go to the track 1-2 times/yr, that doesn't count for me. There really wasn't anything exciting for me in it, after driving teh ZL1. It was just another test drive, vs one more Blast in the ZL1.
That's all.

This is meant to help people pick between the 2, not to bash ford, which did a good job with the Boss but it's at a different level and obviously price. What I'm saying is the difference is TOTALLY worth it!

OP unless I missed your post about it im curious to know why it was the Boss and not the GT500 that was on your short list being that it's more in line price and performance wise with the ZL1.

[shaffe]

exactly what I was wondering. That would be like me going to test drive a SS1LE, then test driving a GT500 saying the performance gap was so different.

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by Taser Deployed

OP unless I missed your post about it im curious to know why it was the Boss and not the GT500 that was on your short list being that it's more in line price and performance wise with the ZL1.

I once had the same short list. Perhaps it is because there was (is) no Camaro equivalent to the Boss LS. To me the performance difference between the 2012 GT500 and 2012 Boss LS did not justify the price and the Boss represented my preferred configuration (lighter, NA engine, etc.).

[A-little-perspective]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

The Ford's exhaust sound is 1/3 of the ZL1's sound volume, unless you probably open the side exhausts which is illegal on the street.

Hmmmm that is odd. The exhaust itself isn't illegal on any street. The decibel level produced from the exhaust may be illegal (in some states, counties, etc.), but that would contradict your thoughts.

[Mr.R]

I had a bunch of them on the list actually. Because I needed a 4 seater, the list might look odd to some: BMW M3, Mercedes C63AMG, Cadillac CTS-V, Mustang Boss, Mustang GT500, Porsche Cayman, BMW M5. I drove them all except for the Fords and the M5. Nobody had a 13 mustang in stock and I didn't like the looks of the 12's plus the dealers don't usually let you drive one. I was lucky to drive with this Boss on Saturday.

I read a ton about every one of them. So I started to shortlist:
Mercedes - NO: too expensive, automatic only, too much engine fans or something buzzing under the hood noise
Cayman-NO: great handling, only 2 seats, not enough power, expensive
M5-NO: could only get used one, pretty expensive, many reliability issues usually
Mustang GT500: I didn't die for teh styling, was not available until late summer (I got the ZL1 in April), I assumed will be more expensive, I hate the live axle concept so as soon as I read about ZL1's handling I knew it will beat the Ford in handling. Nobody knew how much power it will have when I bought the ZL1. Then I spoke with some jerk Ford dealer that wanted at least 10k over sticker so i said forget it. Knowing everything I know now, I would have made the same decision as the ZL1 is a great daily driver and a good performer
BMW M3 - YES top 3 picks. Great handling, good performace, a little short on torque, more expensive, last year for the model so it was a bit outdated. then i saw teh ZL1 Nurburgring time which was like 40s faster than the M3 so I said it HAS to be a great handling/powerful car. So the M3 fell off the list.
CTS-V - NO. great car, awesome performance, manual much better than auto so i knew it's a winner. But then I saw the ZL1 took 20s off it on nurburgring and was 15K cheaper so I said I'll rather get the ZL1.

Last in the running the Mustang Boss. beat the M3 on track and is $20k less than M3. very good reviews adn tradition, probably collectible in the future. 10k less than the ZL1. Still hated the live axle concept but spoke with a dealer that had an allocation and was selling at sticker. I did not like the looks of the 12 so I was waiting for a '13. I was told it will be available in the summer but could not order it yet. THEN the ZL1 came in and I drove it adn it was better than everything I ever drove: handling, power, sound, looks. So I bought it and everything else fell off the table. Having finally driven teh Boss, I am so happy with my choice!!! I just wanted to share with my friends here that are going through the same exercise of picking adn chosing.

Thanks

[Mr.R]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

Hmmmm that is odd. The exhaust itself isn't illegal on any street. The decibel level produced from the exhaust may be illegal (in some states, counties, etc.), but that would contradict your thoughts.

I understand it's illegal to open the side exhaust on the Boss, unless you're on track - most likely for sound levels. Driving 95% on streets it's a;most useless to me.

I have the stock ZL1 exhaust but I have the exhaust commander which keeps it open all the time. I've also put a CAI so it's a bit louder too. It sounds PERFECT!! and it's pretty loud but still stock so It won't be illegal.

It actually scared my mother in law when I turned the car on in teh garagenot that I meant it....or who knows.

[Taser Deployed]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

I had a bunch of them on the list actually. Because I needed a 4 seater, the list might look odd to some: BMW M3, Mercedes C63AMG, Cadillac CTS-V, Mustang Boss, Mustang GT500, Porsche Cayman, BMW M5. I drove them all except for the Fords and the M5. Nobody had a 13 mustang in stock and I didn't like the looks of the 12's plus the dealers don't usually let you drive one. I was lucky to drive with this Boss on Saturday.

I read a ton about every one of them. So I started to shortlist:
Mercedes - NO: too expensive, automatic only, too much engine fans or something buzzing under the hood noise
Cayman-NO: great handling, only 2 seats, not enough power, expensive
M5-NO: could only get used one, pretty expensive, many reliability issues usually
Mustang GT500: I didn't die for teh styling, was not available until late summer (I got the ZL1 in April), I assumed will be more expensive, I hate the live axle concept so as soon as I read about ZL1's handling I knew it will beat the Ford in handling. Nobody knew how much power it will have when I bought the ZL1. Then I spoke with some jerk Ford dealer that wanted at least 10k over sticker so i said forget it. Knowing everything I know now, I would have made the same decision as the ZL1 is a great daily driver and a good performer
BMW M3 - YES top 3 picks. Great handling, good performace, a little short on torque, more expensive, last year for the model so it was a bit outdated. then i saw teh ZL1 Nurburgring time which was like 40s faster than the M3 so I said it HAS to be a great handling/powerful car. So the M3 fell off the list.
CTS-V - NO. great car, awesome performance, manual much better than auto so i knew it's a winner. But then I saw the ZL1 took 20s off it on nurburgring and was 15K cheaper so I said I'll rather get the ZL1.

Last in the running the Mustang Boss. beat the M3 on track and is $20k less than M3. very good reviews adn tradition, probably collectible in the future. 10k less than the ZL1. Still hated the live axle concept but spoke with a dealer that had an allocation and was selling at sticker. I did not like the looks of the 12 so I was waiting for a '13. I was told it will be available in the summer but could not order it yet. THEN the ZL1 came in and I drove it adn it was better than everything I ever drove: handling, power, sound, looks. So I bought it and everything else fell off the table. Having finally driven teh Boss, I am so happy with my choice!!! I just wanted to share with my friends here that are going through the same exercise of picking adn chosing.

Thanks

Ok now it all makes sense. That's a good list dude. My list was the ZL1, CTS-V, GT500, and GS Vette.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 04svtsnke

When does that come out? Any specs? This does make a lot of sense IF it ever comes out.

I'm feelin' lucky.

[A-little-perspective]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

I understand it's illegal to open the side exhaust on the Boss, unless you're on track - most likely for sound levels. Driving 95% on streets it's a;most useless to me.

I have the stock ZL1 exhaust but I have the exhaust commander which keeps it open all the time. I've also put a CAI so it's a bit louder too. It sounds PERFECT!! and it's pretty loud but still stock so It won't be illegal.

It actually scared my mother in law when I turned the car on in teh garagenot that I meant it....or who knows.

The decibel level depends on the state. For example, Texas does not have a noise limit. You might want to review the legal limit in Ohio (70-79 dB), assuming you live there, because your car may not be legal.

70-79 dB is a little louder than normal conversation at 3ft.

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

[Mr.R]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

The decibel level depends on the state. For example, Texas does not have a noise limit. You might want to review the legal limit in Ohio (70-79 dB), assuming you live there, because your car may not be legal.

70-79 dB is a little louder than normal conversation at 3ft.

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

That's why I drive slowly around cops!

In fact, I didn't modify the exhaust so I don't care about the noise limit - it's stock and it must have passed the test - it's the manufacturer's problem.

[A-little-perspective]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

That's why I drive slowly around cops!

In fact, I didn't modify the exhaust so I don't care about the noise limit - it's stock and it must have passed the test - it's the manufacturer's problem.

Same thing applies to the Boss 302 then. The quad exhaust is stock.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

I had a bunch of them on the list actually. Because I needed a 4 seater, the list might look odd to some: BMW M3, Mercedes C63AMG, Cadillac CTS-V, Mustang Boss, Mustang GT500, Porsche Cayman, BMW M5. I drove them all except for the Fords and the M5. Nobody had a 13 mustang in stock and I didn't like the looks of the 12's plus the dealers don't usually let you drive one. I was lucky to drive with this Boss on Saturday.

I read a ton about every one of them. So I started to shortlist:
Mercedes - NO: too expensive, automatic only, too much engine fans or something buzzing under the hood noise
Cayman-NO: great handling, only 2 seats, not enough power, expensive
M5-NO: could only get used one, pretty expensive, many reliability issues usually
Mustang GT500: I didn't die for teh styling, was not available until late summer (I got the ZL1 in April), I assumed will be more expensive, I hate the live axle concept so as soon as I read about ZL1's handling I knew it will beat the Ford in handling. Nobody knew how much power it will have when I bought the ZL1. Then I spoke with some jerk Ford dealer that wanted at least 10k over sticker so i said forget it. Knowing everything I know now, I would have made the same decision as the ZL1 is a great daily driver and a good performer
BMW M3 - YES top 3 picks. Great handling, good performace, a little short on torque, more expensive, last year for the model so it was a bit outdated. then i saw teh ZL1 Nurburgring time which was like 40s faster than the M3 so I said it HAS to be a great handling/powerful car. So the M3 fell off the list.
CTS-V - NO. great car, awesome performance, manual much better than auto so i knew it's a winner. But then I saw the ZL1 took 20s off it on nurburgring and was 15K cheaper so I said I'll rather get the ZL1.

Last in the running the Mustang Boss. beat the M3 on track and is $20k less than M3. very good reviews adn tradition, probably collectible in the future. 10k less than the ZL1. Still hated the live axle concept but spoke with a dealer that had an allocation and was selling at sticker. I did not like the looks of the 12 so I was waiting for a '13. I was told it will be available in the summer but could not order it yet. THEN the ZL1 came in and I drove it adn it was better than everything I ever drove: handling, power, sound, looks. So I bought it and everything else fell off the table. Having finally driven teh Boss, I am so happy with my choice!!! I just wanted to share with my friends here that are going through the same exercise of picking adn chosing.

Thanks

ha ha that is so funny with the exception of the cayman that is almost exactly how my process worked. I looked at used GTR's as opposed to the cayman.

[04svtsnke]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

Same thing applies to the Boss 302 then. The quad exhaust is stock.

+1. Although we could sit here and debate with you about certain choices you made op if your personally satisfied with your choice then congrats. Enjoy it and drive t like it was made to be driven!

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

The brakes don't bite, the ride is bumpier than the ZL1 on Tour mode, the engine doesn't show the power, it doesn't look as good(I think) adn most importantly, the exhaust sound is that of a whining cat compared to ZL1 lion's roar(I have the exhaust open) !!!

Eh, it's a bit of an unfair comparison. The ZL1's 3rd Gen MRC is going to make cars that don't have one feel primitive, and the Boss has a higher revving engine due to it's philosophy of being a track car.

[Deki]

So OP, you pretty much bought a car based on 'Ring times?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Deki

So OP, you pretty much bought a car based on 'Ring times?

Didn't he say after the "test drive" he was sold??? He also drove his other choice the Boss.

[C5RocksC5]

Congrats OP. Its always a nice feeling to realize you made the right choice.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Didn't he say after the "test drive" he was sold??? He also drove his other choice the Boss.

I think he drove the Boss after the already bought the ZL1. Maybe I'm wrong...but it looks like he discounted the M3 and the CTS-V due to the 'Ring times. Other than the Cayman (I would get that or the new Boxter), if I was him, I probably would have gotten a ZL1 too if I could fit in one.

[Mr.R]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

Same thing applies to the Boss 302 then. The quad exhaust is stock.

You must be a philosopher
Boss's side exhaust is sealed/closed from the factory and Ford states that it can only be opened on the track...so it's a bit different - there's no restrictions for the ZL1, but I like your logic.


I just drove the Boss last week - 3 months after I got the ZL1. The '13 Boss was not available in April. It was just a sour taste that I could have gotten something good for $10k less. Now I know I made the best decision with the ZL1 and I can sleep better at night.

I did use the ring time as a comparison between ZL1, CTS-V and M3. It just helped me wait....I've ordered it in October and got it in April. I did drive them all though so my logic was: if the CTS-V and M3 drove so well and the ZL1 shaved off 20s and 40s respectively, it can only be a better car. And IT IS!!!!

[A-little-perspective]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

You must be a philosopher
Boss's side exhaust is sealed/closed from the factory and Ford states that it can only be opened on the track...so it's a bit different - there's no restrictions for the ZL1, but I like your logic.

It is NOT closed or sealed. LOL!!!! Does that look closed?

http://blog.caranddriver.com/the-bos...d-even-better/


Yes, there is the same restrictions on the ZL1 as there is the Boss 302. The legality of the exhaust is purely dependent on decibel limits imposed by the federal, state or local laws (i.e. California having a state wide decibel limit while also imposing a decibel limit on Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway).

How do you not understand this?

[Mr.R]

Looks like you have to take out the restrictor plates on the Boss's side exhaust to hear anything....I knew something:


In any case, I did not hear much exhaust sound when I drove it. I knew more about the car than the sales guy so he never mentioned the side exhaust when I said I wish it was louder...

I still like my ZL1 much better - side exhaust or not on the Boss

[C5RocksC5]

now time for you to go test drive a '13 GT500 and report back to us (that is if you can find a dealer that will let you).
BTW...saw/heard a couple of the Boss Laguna Seca here in africa-hot Las Vegas and dayummmmmm, they sounded AWESOME! Restrictor plates were removed and Track Key in the ignition...best sounding factory stock exhaust I have ever heard.

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by Deki

However, if you don't need the rear seats, and want a dedicated track car, I would think that a base C6 would be a much better platform for a track car then the Boss 302LS. When they first came out, even the base 302 was in 1LT C6 territory, and that is a tough cookie for me to swallow. I'm not loyal to any brand, but if you put a C6 M6 next to a Boss, for the same price, there is no contest for me. You can run wider tires on the C6, it's 300lbs. lighter, has a better front and rear suspension, and a better power band. All a base C6 really needs for the track is better brake lines, higher temp fluid, and some stickier tires to get rid of those horrid run flats. Like I said, I LOVE the Boss, but I love me a Corvette much much more.

Up until 2009 I would have agreed with your assessment about a base C6 being a better track car. But starting in 2010 the Z51 package was incorporated into the Grand Sport & no longer a stand alone option for the base car.

The base car is now more of a grand tourer than a canyon carver; attested to by Car & driver when they tested every iteration of the C6 this year at Spring Mountain. The base car was woefully behind every other model of C6.

And please don't take my comments as a bash.....I've been daily driving Corvettes since the C5 was introduced & there's no bigger fan of the car than me.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by Wondering

Up until 2009 I would have agreed with your assessment about a base C6 being a better track car. But starting in 2010 the Z51 package was incorporated into the Grand Sport & no longer a stand alone option for the base car.

The base car is now more of a grand tourer than a canyon carver; attested to by Car & driver when they tested every iteration of the C6 this year at Spring Mountain. The base car was woefully behind every other model of C6.

And please don't take my comments as a bash.....I've been daily driving Corvettes since the C5 was introduced & there's no bigger fan of the car than me.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you on the GS vs base C6, I was just saying, the C6 is a better track car for 45k then the Boss 302.

[04svtsnke]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

Looks like you have to take out the restrictor plates on the Boss's side exhaust to hear anything....I knew something:


In any case, I did not hear much exhaust sound when I drove it. I knew more about the car than the sales guy so he never mentioned the side exhaust when I said I wish it was louder...

I still like my ZL1 much better - side exhaust or not on the Boss

I thought I pointed out the restrictive plates but maybe I didn't. I just heard some exhaust clips with the boss302's open exhaust and damn does that thing sound sick. Although that alone probably wouldn't have changed your mind about getting the car, your assessment on the exhaust would've been completely different. I'm actually surprised you didn't know about this before driving the car. It's actually kind of funny about your exhaust comparion. It's almost exactly the same wording as the magazines who've compared the gt500's exhaust to the zl1....