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Old 08-02-2012, 05:21 PM   #1
PalmerGA


 
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The "Dead Spot"

Does anyone know how we (LFX Camaro owners) might be able to convince GM they need to address the "dead spot" issue in our cars? I mean, that just isn't right. And seeing how the new TBs being touted here seem to fix the problem, GM should hold some responsibility for selling cars with faulty throttle bodies.

Any suggestions on how to get the ball rolling on something like this?
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:02 PM   #2
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Never happen.

GM had the best design TB in the LS2, and then dropped it for the LS3/L99 version with deeper dips and peaks and made no sense.

The LS2 VMax CNC ported makes more gains then the LS3/L99 but they are not compatable to swap.

I think many confuse the "best design" with the marketing demographics, the budget and cost caps, and what most owners will never complain about or even realize that really dictate how well anything is designed.

Always has been this way, and probably always will. Look at the oil ingestion issues.....since 1997 when GM released the first LS motor there have been issues and very little done as far as changes to really deal with it.

99% have no idea what it does over time in their engine so why engineer it better when a fraction complain?

At least the fix is inexpensive for those not happy w/it.

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Old 08-02-2012, 08:36 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
Never happen.

GM had the best design TB in the LS2, and then dropped it for the LS3/L99 version with deeper dips and peaks and made no sense.

The LS2 VMax CNC ported makes more gains then the LS3/L99 but they are not compatable to swap.

I think many confuse the "best design" with the marketing demographics, the budget and cost caps, and what most owners will never complain about or even realize that really dictate how well anything is designed.

Always has been this way, and probably always will. Look at the oil ingestion issues.....since 1997 when GM released the first LS motor there have been issues and very little done as far as changes to really deal with it.

99% have no idea what it does over time in their engine so why engineer it better when a fraction complain?

At least the fix is inexpensive for those not happy w/it.

I understand, but when you build a car that's made for cruisin' and jumping on the gas at lights, etc., it seems a dead spot in your lower power range is a rather bad advertisement. People have noticed (as is evident on this forum) and frankly, word of mouth about this and other problems experienced with the LFX is going to cost them (GM). If it's a know problem - they should fix it.

Fortunately... you guys are here to kiss it and make it better.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:17 PM   #4
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I've read all about the dreaded dead spot, but I've honestly never had any issue with mine. Maybe once I get a cold air intake I'll feel a difference, but for now my Camaro is the only one I've ever driven so I have never known anything different.
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:02 AM   #5
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It's pretty apparent with a manual. Try to pass someone in a high gear on the superslab and there's nothing there. Looking to wake up some low end that I know is there in this engine. My ported TB will be here on 8/8/12, so I will post back to let everyone know if it helps and where to get one.

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBfromPeoria View Post
It's pretty apparent with a manual. Try to pass someone in a high gear on the superslab and there's nothing there. Looking to wake up some low end that I know is there in this engine. My ported TB will be here on 8/8/12, so I will post back to let everyone know if it helps and where to get one.

John B.

I just removed my CAI and tune, and I forgot how bad that issue was. Highway went from 75 to 55 then back to 75. When I tried to get back up to 75, no juice in 6th anymore, felt like it was lugging and downshifted to 5th. This is my morning and afternoon commute for work and I usually just cruise along in 6th the whole way on the highway. Forgot how much CAI and tune really wake the low end up.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by malave7567 View Post

I just removed my CAI and tune, and I forgot how bad that issue was. Highway went from 75 to 55 then back to 75. When I tried to get back up to 75, no juice in 6th anymore, felt like it was lugging and downshifted to 5th. This is my morning and afternoon commute for work and I usually just cruise along in 6th the whole way on the highway. Forgot how much CAI and tune really wake the low end up.
Yeah - I could see it being much more of an issue with the M6 than with the A6, but still... it is a known problem with the V6s and GM should own up to it.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:45 AM   #8
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I still havent found this "dead" spot. The dyno doesn't show a dead spot. Can anyone describe this dead spot and at what rpm it occurs? I floor my car it goes faster and faster linear until 4k then it shoots up sharply...
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:07 AM   #9
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Take off from a dead stop and you'll notice it accelerates decently from a stop, then you hit about 2500rpms and the RPMs climb much more rapidly. That sub 2500 rpm range is the dead spot.


My ported TB will also arrive on 8/8. Can't wait to give feedback.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmerGA View Post
I understand, but when you build a car that's made for cruisin' and jumping on the gas at lights, etc., it seems a dead spot in your lower power range is a rather bad advertisement. People have noticed (as is evident on this forum) and frankly, word of mouth about this and other problems experienced with the LFX is going to cost them (GM). If it's a know problem - they should fix it.

Fortunately... you guys are here to kiss it and make it better.
Your logic is seriously flawed. The vast majority of people don't notice and those that do, and aren't searching for a cause/remedy online, will go to the dealer. The dealer will search for a TSB and there will be none. Customer will be told everything works within "specs" and that'll be the end.

If there isn't a mass influx, as in thousands, of vehicles heading back into the stealership for the same issue, with the same explanation and the dealer actually acknowledging the issue and submitting it to GM...it won't even be looked at. In fact, it is more costly to try to rectify these problems with, say a new TB, post-production from GM than it would be to let it skirt under the rug. This is why most recalls and TSB deal with safety issues more so than anything else. A dead spot in the lower RPM range will get a *shrug*.

In the end, it won't cost GM a thing. Camaro5 is in no way, shape, form or fashion representative of total 5th Gen LFX Camaro ownership.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:48 PM   #11
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Your logic is seriously flawed.
You're correct. My logic is based on the desire to provide outstanding customer service, which is sorely lacking in most businesses today. If someone is experiencing the dead spot they should be able to bring it to the dealership, show them that it is occurring, and have the throttle body replaced at no charge. Very simple - customer satisfaction.

I know it won't happen and I understand why... for the reasons you mentioned.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:43 PM   #12
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People on the forums seem to be far more "connected" to their car and they notice things 99% dont. Just lke the gunk buildup on the valves. It occurs gradually so 99% dont notice the drop in performance and fuel economy. If the dealer tells them "everything is fine" they put it out of mind.

Most people buy a vehicle to get from point a-point b and only service it when the DIC tells them to. Never even open the hood to check oil, etc.

On these forums, we are the 1%ers.....(not all, as you can see the debates all the time "if it needed it, GM would have done it" etc.) we want the best and expect the best.

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Old 08-04-2012, 03:48 PM   #13
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Heck even people on the forum don't know where the dead spot is...
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:33 PM   #14
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Heck even people on the forum don't know where the dead spot is...
I do.... right between the ears of a Mustang owner.
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