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Old 08-04-2012, 09:09 AM   #1
2012ZL1
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de-winging the ZL-1 heads

Hi Guys,
Has anyone done any porting/de-winging ports for better flow?
All the aftermarket heads that I know of do not have a wing, so does removing the wing cause a problem on these heads or is it ok for modding for more power?
Any experience/input appreciated. Pics are welcome too if ya got them!!
Mark
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2.55 upper, 10" lower pullies, Innovators west billet hub and sfi balancer, solid blower drive isolator, 50 mm idler kit, full length S/S headers no cats, comp cams custom grind cam, comp roller rocker trunion kit, comp push rods,dual valve springs retainers and locks, Injector dynamics ID850 inectors, Rotofab ZL1 cold air kit, Lingenfelter 160 thermostat, Rotofab intercooler reservoir, stock plugs, LS7 90mm throttle body, GTO clutch reservoir mod, my own custom catch can, Tuning by Jannetty, install by me.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:09 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by 2012ZL1 View Post
Hi Guys,
Has anyone done any porting/de-winging ports for better flow?
All the aftermarket heads that I know of do not have a wing, so does removing the wing cause a problem on these heads or is it ok for modding for more power?
Any experience/input appreciated. Pics are welcome too if ya got them!!
Mark
It is there for a reason.

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Old 08-04-2012, 11:16 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE View Post
It is there for a reason.

And it seems next to impossible to find any good data on what that reason is, other than GM sales propaganda...

Better atomization of air/fuel? Ok, then why do I get 16MPG?
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:22 AM   #4
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There has been A lot of people port them out. Talk to Richard at west coast cylinder head he has them ported in stock and will tell you all you need to know about them.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 1st Gen Forever View Post
And it seems next to impossible to find any good data on what that reason is, other than GM sales propaganda...

Better atomization of air/fuel? Ok, then why do I get 16MPG?
LMAO

That is not the reason!
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:32 AM   #6
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Oh wait. I know the reason! It's there so you know when you're done with your port work. Once it's ground away, you're done!
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:35 PM   #7
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Why all the cloak and dagger Andy? Whats the reason then? speak up!
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #8
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(IMHO) The only reason I see to keep them is that a hemisphrical reverse dome piston needs help promoting full combustion as a result of inadequate quench.
There is no quench pad on the piston, so the wing helps create turbulence in a "non turbulent" environment for proper homogenization of the fuel/air mixture.
If this is the case it is not wise to remove it,and port flow must be improved in other areas. Minor smoothing or blending of the wing is probably o.k., but the leading edge should be kept prominent.
Replacement pistons with a quench pad could be used with wing removal.
The theoretical reason for non quench pistons in a supercharged environment is to remove detonation or hot spots which can happen on the piston.
In hyperutectic pistons, a hot spot is what causes failure from what I've read. Idealy, a hemisperical combustion chamber would be perfect, but since the engine design does not allow this, the next best thing is a reverse hemisphere piston.
Now the lack of turbulence from the piston needs help, and help is in the form of the wing. The wing keeps the "turbulence generator" out of the actual combustion chamber, which should lessen the chance of hot spots, and let the piston live, and allow more timing etc.

This effect only happens on after supercharger fuel injected engines, because in traditional carburated roots set ups the fuel comes in pre- blower so the blower does all the homoganization of the mixture.

In supercharged engines that fuel is added "after" the blower such as this, the fuel does not have the benefit of the blower mixing it into the air.
You need something in the arrangement to do the mixing of the two post injection site. That leaves the bowl area or the combustion chamber. For the reasons I mentioned above the chamber is out, so that leaves the bowl area.
Its not that it won't work without it it's just more efficient with the homoginizer in the mix.
Now the question remains that at more aggresive cam profiles and raised rpm ranges, will the wing be needed, and will it be a detrement to power once those variables are changed.

This is just my guess from what I've seen of the parts,and general experience with blowers, but if I'm wrong anyone can feel free to call me stupid. Heck call me stupid anyway I don't mind..lol
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2.55 upper, 10" lower pullies, Innovators west billet hub and sfi balancer, solid blower drive isolator, 50 mm idler kit, full length S/S headers no cats, comp cams custom grind cam, comp roller rocker trunion kit, comp push rods,dual valve springs retainers and locks, Injector dynamics ID850 inectors, Rotofab ZL1 cold air kit, Lingenfelter 160 thermostat, Rotofab intercooler reservoir, stock plugs, LS7 90mm throttle body, GTO clutch reservoir mod, my own custom catch can, Tuning by Jannetty, install by me.

Last edited by 2012ZL1; 08-05-2012 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012ZL1 View Post
(IMHO) The only reason I see to keep them is that a hemisphrical reverse dome piston needs help promoting full combustion as a result of inadequate quench.
There is no quench pad on the piston, so the wing helps create turbulence in a "non turbulent" environment for proper homogenization of the fuel/air mixture.
If this is the case it is not wise to remove it,and port flow must be improved in other areas. Minor smoothing or blending of the wing is probably o.k., but the leading edge should be kept prominent.
Replacement pistons with a quench pad could be used with wing removal.
The theoretical reason for non quench pistons in a supercharged environment is to remove detonation or hot spots which can happen on the piston.
In hyperutectic pistons, a hot spot is what causes failure from what I've read. Idealy, a hemisperical combustion chamber would be perfect, but since the engine design does not allow this, the next best thing is a reverse hemisphere piston.
Now the lack of turbulence from the piston needs help, and help is in the form of the wing. The wing keeps the "turbulence generator" out of the actual combustion chamber, which should lessen the chance of hot spots, and let the piston live, and allow more timing etc.

This effect only happens on after supercharger fuel injected engines, because in traditional carburated roots set ups the fuel comes in pre- blower so the blower does all the homoganization of the mixture.

In supercharged engines that fuel is added "after" the blower such as this, the fuel does not have the benefit of the blower mixing it into the air.
You need something in the arrangement to do the mixing of the two post injection site. That leaves the bowl area or the combustion chamber. For the reasons I mentioned above the chamber is out, so that leaves the bowl area.
Its not that it won't work without it it's just more efficient with the homoginizer in the mix.
Now the question remains that at more aggresive cam profiles and raised rpm ranges, will the wing be needed, and will it be a detrement to power once those variables are changed.

This is just my guess from what I've seen of the parts,and general experience with blowers, but if I'm wrong anyone can feel free to call me stupid. Heck call me stupid anyway I don't mind..lol
Your not stupid.

In short :
You could have said it helps reduce detonation.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #10
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That would have taken less words alright.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012ZL1 View Post
(IMHO) The only reason I see to keep them is that a hemisphrical reverse dome piston needs help promoting full combustion as a result of inadequate quench.
There is no quench pad on the piston, so the wing helps create turbulence in a "non turbulent" environment for proper homogenization of the fuel/air mixture.
If this is the case it is not wise to remove it,and port flow must be improved in other areas. Minor smoothing or blending of the wing is probably o.k., but the leading edge should be kept prominent.
Replacement pistons with a quench pad could be used with wing removal.
The theoretical reason for non quench pistons in a supercharged environment is to remove detonation or hot spots which can happen on the piston.
In hyperutectic pistons, a hot spot is what causes failure from what I've read. Idealy, a hemisperical combustion chamber would be perfect, but since the engine design does not allow this, the next best thing is a reverse hemisphere piston.
Now the lack of turbulence from the piston needs help, and help is in the form of the wing. The wing keeps the "turbulence generator" out of the actual combustion chamber, which should lessen the chance of hot spots, and let the piston live, and allow more timing etc.

This effect only happens on after supercharger fuel injected engines, because in traditional carburated roots set ups the fuel comes in pre- blower so the blower does all the homoganization of the mixture.

In supercharged engines that fuel is added "after" the blower such as this, the fuel does not have the benefit of the blower mixing it into the air.
You need something in the arrangement to do the mixing of the two post injection site. That leaves the bowl area or the combustion chamber. For the reasons I mentioned above the chamber is out, so that leaves the bowl area.
Its not that it won't work without it it's just more efficient with the homoginizer in the mix.
Now the question remains that at more aggresive cam profiles and raised rpm ranges, will the wing be needed, and will it be a detrement to power once those variables are changed.

This is just my guess from what I've seen of the parts,and general experience with blowers, but if I'm wrong anyone can feel free to call me stupid. Heck call me stupid anyway I don't mind..lol
Looks like you knew the elaborate answer to your own question all along
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 2012ZL1 View Post
That would have taken less words alright.
Hey 2012ZL1, now research how changing fuel injectors on an LSA might affect atomization with or without the wing...
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:46 PM   #13
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just like anything else from the factory, it's there for a reason. but that doesn't mean that reason is aligned with your goals. if your goal is more along the lines of maximum airflow, then.....
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:49 PM   #14
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2012ZL1, I enjoyed the lengthy reply.
Really looking forward to the new DI V8s, add a blower.... and BOOM serious power with less det and better mileage to boot!
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