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Old 08-05-2012, 08:31 PM   #26
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The Indianapolis PD did a spectacular job.

Those hazard lights though...wow. Coming from an ex-leo... that was ABSOLUTELY unacceptable. The danger we brought to the high way was outrageous.
I just want to make you aware of two things.

One, it was IPD's idea to turn on the flashers for the cruise.

Two, It was Chevy's mistake for not making the brake lights functional while the flashers are on. There are two lights on each side, one could flash and one could be a brake light. Just an option for the future.

I feel bad because I was one of the ones getting everyone out of the parking lot and asking everyone to turn their flasher and lights on. I was out of breathe and my arms were sore by the end but it was fun watching everyone go by. Had I known the chaos asking folks to turn their flashers on would cause, I would not have done it in hind sight.

However it was hysterical watching a lot of people look to the left to try to turn the flashers on.

T.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #27
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Adam, and others who shared their feelings, thank you. I appreciate you letting us know how you feel and will consider your feelings in the future.

Long caravans can work, but as we figured out this time, they do not work as well for long distances. What i learned was, if the caravan is going to be that large, it should be broken into smaller groups and brought together at a meeting place close to the destination for arrival. For those who felt that they are disasters waiting to happen, you also learned about your comfort zone. In the future i am sure you will make decision based on your experiences.

I am very proud of my group, from the beginner to the expert, we all came together to do something difficult and trying for the sake of togetherness. Mission accomplished.

Fyi, the speeds in the front were below posted speeds 95 percent of the drive. As you stated, reaction time became very dangerous the closer we got. Also, fyi, no one at the front of the caravan got pulled since as we went through Indy the leader never broke 50 mph. Not taking your post personal, but i was there the whole weekend, and never received feedback face to face from you until now. I would have shared my learned lessons then.

Thanks again for the thread.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:48 PM   #28
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Adam, and others who shared their feelings, thank you. I appreciate you letting us know how you feel and will consider your feelings in the future.

Long caravans can work, but as we figured out this time, they do not work as well for long distances. What i learned was, if the caravan is going to be that large, it should be broken into smaller groups and brought together at a meeting place close to the destination for arrival. For those who felt that they are disasters waiting to happen, you also learned about your comfort zone. In the future i am sure you will make decision based on your experiences.

I am very proud of my group, from the beginner to the expert, we all came together to do something difficult and trying for the sake of togetherness. Mission accomplished.

Fyi, the speeds in the front were below posted speeds 95 percent of the drive. As you stated, reaction time became very dangerous the closer we got. Also, fyi, no one at the front of the caravan got pulled since as we went through Indy the leader never broke 50 mph. Not taking your post personal, but i was there the whole weekend, and never received feedback face to face from you until now. I would have shared my learned lessons then.

Thanks again for the thread.
FYI - I certainly do not hold you accountable. Your organization and time devoted to the event in preparation is commendable! For part of the trip I was up front maybe 4 cars behind you and the front was certainly a comfortable and safe place to be. It was only once you were halfway or further back that it got scary - way outside of your purview.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:03 PM   #29
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Adam, and others who shared their feelings, thank you. I appreciate you letting us know how you feel and will consider your feelings in the future.

Long caravans can work, but as we figured out this time, they do not work as well for long distances. What i learned was, if the caravan is going to be that large, it should be broken into smaller groups and brought together at a meeting place close to the destination for arrival. For those who felt that they are disasters waiting to happen, you also learned about your comfort zone. In the future i am sure you will make decision based on your experiences.

I am very proud of my group, from the beginner to the expert, we all came together to do something difficult and trying for the sake of togetherness. Mission accomplished.

Fyi, the speeds in the front were below posted speeds 95 percent of the drive. As you stated, reaction time became very dangerous the closer we got. Also, fyi, no one at the front of the caravan got pulled since as we went through Indy the leader never broke 50 mph. Not taking your post personal, but i was there the whole weekend, and never received feedback face to face from you until now. I would have shared my learned lessons then.

Thanks again for the thread.
I'm not sure how my section was so fast. But I was struggling to keep up at many points. I didn't meet you because I just met up in Dayton and took off. Then got lost when the caravan broke up there at the end (which actually worked out pretty amazing for me lol). Definitely would have wanted to thank you because you did a spectacular job at setting this up. Just didn't get the chance.

Don't get me wrong...this caravan was a BLAST. This was my favorite part of fest next to meeting my lounge friends. I definitely hope you set this up next year. I just think there were a lot of people trying to show off and whatever which lead to a mess.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:11 PM   #30
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Yeah, I too received a 'gift' from the IPD. at the time I was pulled over - it was definitely more about a show of force since prior to being pulled over, I say the officer behind me and moved over and then he tried to go after two others ahead of me but when he was unable to cross over traffic to get to them he decided to get me instead. I can't say for certain that during the time he was behind me that I was not over the limit but I was basically keeping pace with traffic. Live and learn...
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:16 PM   #31
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Adam, and others who shared their feelings, thank you. I appreciate you letting us know how you feel and will consider your feelings in the future.

Long caravans can work, but as we figured out this time, they do not work as well for long distances. What i learned was, if the caravan is going to be that large, it should be broken into smaller groups and brought together at a meeting place close to the destination for arrival. For those who felt that they are disasters waiting to happen, you also learned about your comfort zone. In the future i am sure you will make decision based on your experiences.

I am very proud of my group, from the beginner to the expert, we all came together to do something difficult and trying for the sake of togetherness. Mission accomplished.

Fyi, the speeds in the front were below posted speeds 95 percent of the drive. As you stated, reaction time became very dangerous the closer we got. Also, fyi, no one at the front of the caravan got pulled since as we went through Indy the leader never broke 50 mph. Not taking your post personal, but i was there the whole weekend, and never received feedback face to face from you until now. I would have shared my learned lessons then.

Thanks again for the thread.
Ernie, thanks for setting this up. It was an awesome experience and my mom and I thoroughly enjoyed ourselves. Breaking up the caravan into smaller sections sounds like an excellent idea too. Looking forward to the next.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:00 PM   #32
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Adam, and others who shared their feelings, thank you. I appreciate you letting us know how you feel and will consider your feelings in the future.

Long caravans can work, but as we figured out this time, they do not work as well for long distances. What i learned was, if the caravan is going to be that large, it should be broken into smaller groups and brought together at a meeting place close to the destination for arrival. For those who felt that they are disasters waiting to happen, you also learned about your comfort zone. In the future i am sure you will make decision based on your experiences.

I am very proud of my group, from the beginner to the expert, we all came together to do something difficult and trying for the sake of togetherness. Mission accomplished.

Fyi, the speeds in the front were below posted speeds 95 percent of the drive. As you stated, reaction time became very dangerous the closer we got. Also, fyi, no one at the front of the caravan got pulled since as we went through Indy the leader never broke 50 mph. Not taking your post personal, but i was there the whole weekend, and never received feedback face to face from you until now. I would have shared my learned lessons then.

Thanks again for the thread.

I believe the biggest problem was, a car would cut in, someone would fall behind and speed up to catch back up. As the gap got bigger, the speeds got greater. I was one of the last cars and I remember doing some speeds I've never done just to keep up. Overall Edog, you did a great job. Nothing wrong on your part. That was my first time driving in a group that large but I guess that's part of the fun of the Fest!
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:40 PM   #33
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If you ask me it would have been safer without the escort. IPD did a good job with what they had but it was a constant game of catch the guy in front of you then slam the brakes on. The cruze should have just taken off at a easy pace and ya get back when ya get back. The motocops zooming past made everyone feel like it was a race to a funeral. We bowed out about halfway thru which was near my exit, 3 kids in the car I had enough.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:03 PM   #34
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Good points to note.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:57 AM   #35
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Adam, and others who shared their feelings, thank you. I appreciate you letting us know how you feel and will consider your feelings in the future.

Long caravans can work, but as we figured out this time, they do not work as well for long distances. What i learned was, if the caravan is going to be that large, it should be broken into smaller groups and brought together at a meeting place close to the destination for arrival. For those who felt that they are disasters waiting to happen, you also learned about your comfort zone. In the future i am sure you will make decision based on your experiences.

I am very proud of my group, from the beginner to the expert, we all came together to do something difficult and trying for the sake of togetherness. Mission accomplished.

Fyi, the speeds in the front were below posted speeds 95 percent of the drive. As you stated, reaction time became very dangerous the closer we got. Also, fyi, no one at the front of the caravan got pulled since as we went through Indy the leader never broke 50 mph. Not taking your post personal, but i was there the whole weekend, and never received feedback face to face from you until now. I would have shared my learned lessons then.

Thanks again for the thread.
Thank You Ernie for your efforts in organizing the caravan from Han**** to Dayton to Indy. I had a blast.

Of course, there are always things to improve on for next time, but overall fantastic job.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:02 AM   #36
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The Camaro drivers cooperated with each other on the road, but the other non-Camaro drivers didn't so much. That created intensity for the camaro drivers to catch up or pass. Not that they had too, but it would have been much better if they did. That's what I saw out there.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:12 AM   #37
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I was going like 85 at one point and a Cop waved me to go faster. Then brake check to 25 MPH. I pulled off and went to go eat after that.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:14 AM   #38
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I just think there were a lot of people trying to show off and whatever which lead to a mess.

This is it... I seen it first hand near the front of the line.... which starts the whole speed up and slam on brakes.... If we could all keep a steady pace, no big gaps, and less BS chatter on the radios.... The cruise would be alot better.

Edog and a few others handled communication really well on Thur from Dayton to Indy... It seemed like the info flowed from the front to the rear pretty good based on what I could hear on the radio.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:04 AM   #39
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Being a local - we do a few police escorted caravans to the track each year around the races. Even with 50 cars or less it is quite dangerous on 465 with all the merging traffic and people crossing 5 lanes of traffic .

Once I got to the host hotel and saw all the cars I decided to pass on the cruise. In fact several locals bailed out early on and came back to the hotel after "near death" experiences. We even have police officers in our group that did not feel safe, if that tells you anything! For the record I did post beforehand that I felt cruising 465 would be challenging at best. Flashers on was just beyond stupid.. For the volume of cars there were nowhere near enough IMPD escorts.

And for anybody wondering, IMPD does not do these escorts for free - so props to whoever picked up the cost to pay them

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Old 08-06-2012, 10:12 AM   #40
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The cruse around 465 was terrifying. It started off really cool with the police blocking the freeway then it just got crazy when the other motorists started mixing in. I had my fiancee in the car, and like someone else said, the car was silent we were both focused on the road and using hand signals out the window. I should have just turned my flashers off. It took me awhile after the cruse to settle down and thank the Lord I did not get into an accident. I am really thankful I had upgraded brakes on my car, because there were times I had to slam on them hard.

Well now I know for the next fest. Stay in the parking lot.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:52 AM   #41
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Fyi, the speeds in the front were below posted speeds 95 percent of the drive. As you stated, reaction time became very dangerous the closer we got. Also, fyi, no one at the front of the caravan got pulled since as we went through Indy the leader never broke 50 mph. Not taking your post personal, but i was there the whole weekend, and never received feedback face to face from you until now. I would have shared my learned lessons then.
As the number two car during the Dayton-Indy cruise I can say speeds were under the limit nearly 98.99% of the time.

The hard brake checks were a result of inexperience. That isn't mean to be an insult, just a fact. Following too closely, or braking instead of coasting. Blocking out other vehicles, etc. I think it was all handled extremely well with that in mind.

FYI, traffic stops are not conducted to "show force". If someone was stopped it was the result of a perceived action on their part.

Feedback threads are greatly appreciated, but typically better received when solely facts are presented vs half fact and half speculation on other perceived events that you weren't a part of first hand.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:18 PM   #42
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Adam, and others who shared their feelings, thank you. I appreciate you letting us know how you feel and will consider your feelings in the future.

Long caravans can work, but as we figured out this time, they do not work as well for long distances. What i learned was, if the caravan is going to be that large, it should be broken into smaller groups and brought together at a meeting place close to the destination for arrival. For those who felt that they are disasters waiting to happen, you also learned about your comfort zone. In the future i am sure you will make decision based on your experiences.

I am very proud of my group, from the beginner to the expert, we all came together to do something difficult and trying for the sake of togetherness. Mission accomplished.

Fyi, the speeds in the front were below posted speeds 95 percent of the drive. As you stated, reaction time became very dangerous the closer we got. Also, fyi, no one at the front of the caravan got pulled since as we went through Indy the leader never broke 50 mph. Not taking your post personal, but i was there the whole weekend, and never received feedback face to face from you until now. I would have shared my learned lessons then.

Thanks again for the thread.

I'm not complaining, just offering some info here... I was the very last car in the Atlantic caravan when we left Dayton. (I was driving my truck and didn't want to break up the line of Camaros) I was right behind the car in front of me as we got on the on ramp in Dayton and I immediately had to go 90 mph to try to catch him on the ramp. I couldn't. I said "screw this" and slowed down to a still-not-even-close-to-legal speed. It took me 20 miles to catch the caravan. Then it was just like everyone said... high speeds followed by sudden braking.

I saw no fewer than 4 Camaros pulled over for speeding in both Ohio and Indiana. I went by the 4-car crash. I feel especially bad for that last blue car's owner. It was in a construction zone with tons of semis and no shoulder. It was an accident waiting to happen.

I eventually gave up trying to stay with the group. It was impossible. I just drove to the hotel and got off the expressway ramp right behind the Camaros in the caravan. I caught up in the end.

It was just too fast for that much traffic. Maybe the leaders weren't going that fast, but it was insane at the back of the pack.

The Fest cruise around Indy was a piece of cake compared to that. Especially because I was riding in the back of a friend's convertible (thanks to Chris and Susan!) and I didn't have to drive.

I agree with others. Cruising in a caravan with that many car on a busy expressway is just not a good idea.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:51 PM   #43
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There will definitely be several smaller groups to manage the accordion/caterpillar effect of the ebbs and flows of traffic. At one point I heard a mile marker come to the front indicating we were more than 4 miles long. I can't imagine how bad the gaps and recovery speeds would have been at that point, which does add significant yet unnecessary risk. Definitely one of the many lessons learned.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #44
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There is a lot I can say about the caravan. First of all there care way too many negative opinions about the accident. Those involved are devastated enough they don't need you calling them bad drivers. We call had close calls, I myself had one, this could have happened to anyone whether they were in a caravan or not. Additionally those complaining about those jumping out of the line.... well if I hadn't jumped out of the caravan I would have been one of those involved with the accident. As far as the speeding involved. No one made you jump on the accelerator and speed. I did find myself doing 80 to 90 MPH but honestly I drive like that normally so being apart of the caravan and speeding was nothing out of the ordinary for me. I'm sorry if I made any feel like I cut them off but as much as I jumped out of the line I tried to ease back in to prevent any problems. I felt the caravan went great despite the close calls but it was to be expected. Thanks ernie! I had an amazing time! I can't wait til next year!!!!
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:41 PM   #45
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I was in the Mid-atlantic cruise from Dayton to Indy about 15 or 20 cars from the front and speeds did not exceed dangerous limits. I agree there are some things that can be learned from the unfortunate accident but I think Ernie did a great job.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:27 PM   #46
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i blame truck drivers....simple as that...they dont know when to move over out that way....or in Ohio...or in PA...or in NY or in CT...my entire trip to and from was just battling truck drivers....pricks lol
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:22 PM   #47
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A big part of it was that 70 between Columbus and Indy is a heavily traveled truck route and it needs to be widened. It's just too full of semis. The construction just made it worse.

I didn't mean to be critical with my comments. I just wanted the leaders to know what I observed from the back of the caravan. I appreciate that they organized the caravan and I was happy to participate. I also knew enough to just not try to keep up when things were moving too fast.

I was in a caravan of about 30 Camaros last summer that went the exact same route to Indy and we had zero issues and it was great fun. That's why I wanted to go with the group this year. I thank you for including me.

I feel very bad for the group involved in the accident. I hope everyone involved is ok and that the cars are repaired/replaced quickly.

Don't let this discourage you from group caravans in better driving conditions.
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:42 PM   #48
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Thanks everyone for the words of support.

Most of what everyone is saying is correct. The next time I pull together a caravan of this size I believe it will be grouped into multiple groups of 15 to 20 max departing 5 minutes apart. The walkie talkies were in constant use to update me of the conditions in the back. We attempted to help pull others together by speeding up/slowing down in 2 mph increments, but we just could not close the rear. Not to mention, the highway went down to two lanes, and truckers and others had nowhere to pass when we were grouped to their left.

What worked best was bringing the caravan up to speed limit the last 1.5 hours of the cruze to Dayton. It broke the Caravan into smaller groups based on driving comfort and location in the pack. That was what we needed, smaller groups.

Thanks for the feedback. It will help us in the future as we come together again.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:04 PM   #49
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Location: Toledo, Ohio
Posts: 18
I was pull over with 3 other Camaro's by ISP on the Dayton to Indy caravan and the LEO said to me that many complaints on the group of cars. I was told that I was over the posted speed of 55, but I seen LEO way before he Blue lighted the Camaro behind me. Other public vehicles were moving at the same flow of traffic, but only Camaro's were target. I'm not upset with the LEO he was doing his job, I'm upset with the process that ONLY one Make/Model was pulled over and not other public vehicles traveling at the same rate of speed.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:58 PM   #50
RaayRaay

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73camarolt View Post
First off I have to agree, the cruises and caravans were pretty crazy. I believe the mid Atlantic cruise from Dayton to Indy was the worst. We ended up leaving the pack. It was just to much. Now as far as the accident, not sure how you ment the age thing but I believe him being young has nothing to do with it. I'm 17 and I wasnt involved in any accident. I did have some close calls but almost everyone I've talked had close calls. And no the driver was not texting, I know that for a fact.
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Originally Posted by aSSian View Post
Well to be fair, the first 3 cars were stopped with no collision. It was the 4th car that caused the others to get pushed forward.
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Originally Posted by dorfmac View Post
Yeah - exactly my point. You dont have to be young and texting to get into an accident. Even when you pay as close attention as possible you can end up in a sketchy predicament. I had two experiences that terrified me between Hagerstown and Dayton and I knew I didn't want to risk it the next day when the group was even larger.
Well for the blue car that started the crash to end up underneath the TRANS4MR, he wasn't paying much attention thats for sure, especially when everyone else managed to stop.
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