Launch control failure(axle)

[maxxer442]

So my 2010 SS M6 has around 10,000 easy miles on it-all from me. No racing, just run it thru the gears once in a while, no hard launches. I have tried the launch control like twice when I first bought it way back in 09. Didn't like it, its too violent. I had a buddy with me the other night, and he wanted to see how it worked. So I put it in the mode, it worked like it was supposed to, until I dumped the clutch and broke the right side half-shaft. What the heck! Is this a fluke? Do I have to worry about ever using that again? The car is bone stock with catback and a hurst short-throw. It was covered under warranty with no questions asked-but is this common?

[RacnJsn95]

I've read of a few occurences. The general concensus I see is, use the factory launch control, and break stuff. I've used it twice and experienced violent wheel hop both times, I don't think I will ever use it again. Glad you got it covered under warranty!

[Russell James]

Forget that feature is there and never use it.

Too many variables to not avoid busting something. Road grip, tire pressure, temp, clutch grip, alignment.... get the right combo that causes wheel hop and parts will break.

Lucky it was just the axle and not the driveshaft that can destroy the exhaust and belly pan of the car.

[HumanWiki]

^ Ditto.

LC on the SS is just a nice little toy that you'll roll the dice on every time.. It's ultimately useless and a decent driver will outrun it every time.

[Driveshaftshop]

one of the issues is the rear axles are made from a carbon material and will have a wide range of results as far as breakage. Retained Austenite in the material is the culprate (along with wheel hop) this is why the failures are not as consistent as most would like to see. some of the axles will last for some time and with allot of abuse and others will fail quickly. this is why the aftermarket will use Chromoly materials that are a cleaner bland to start with so there is much less or no Retained Austenite.



How Does Retained Austenite Affect Performance?
Hardening of steels requires heating to an austenitic phase and quenching to room temperature to produce a hard martensitic phase. Due to incomplete transformation some austenite is retained at room temperature. Retained austenite can have a detrimental affect on the mechanical properties of the steel. Properties such as fatigue strength, toughness, hardness, yield strength and machinability can be influenced by retained austenite

[mclark10]

Are our axles yet another high quality item made in China?

[Driveshaftshop]

no, but in the beginning CV axles were made from a much higher grade of material. as time went on they were able to understand the way there made and what it can take. on a scale from 1-10 if an axle needed to handle say a #5 it would be made to #9 now the axles that need to handle #5 are designed for just over it like a #5.5 its not that there made bad, there just being made to do what it was intended for, no more.

[Kiernans88]

Originally Posted by Driveshaftshop

one of the issues is the rear axles are made from a carbon material and will have a wide range of results as far as breakage. Retained Austenite in the material is the culprate (along with wheel hop) this is why the failures are not as consistent as most would like to see. some of the axles will last for some time and with allot of abuse and others will fail quickly. this is why the aftermarket will use Chromoly materials that are a cleaner bland to start with so there is much less or no Retained Austenite.



How Does Retained Austenite Affect Performance?
Hardening of steels requires heating to an austenitic phase and quenching to room temperature to produce a hard martensitic phase. Due to incomplete transformation some austenite is retained at room temperature. Retained austenite can have a detrimental affect on the mechanical properties of the steel. Properties such as fatigue strength, toughness, hardness, yield strength and machinability can be influenced by retained austenite

+1

This put a smile on my face. Iron/carbon phase diagrams oddly excite me!

[GFORCE1320]

It all boils down to the cheaper the steel, the more inconsistent results you get.
There are lots of different steel one could use for drivetrain parts.
We have tested just about every material there is that is suitable for making drivetrain parts from and we also do material analysis on OEM parts to see what they are made of and why they fail.
You would be surprised at what kind of mixtures steels and low grades the OEM's use. Some of the materials the OEM’s use are not even on the engineering standards charts..

As far as aftermarket axles, we don’t use chromoly steel, it's a 41xx series steel from the Chromium-Molybdenum family hence the commonly used name Chro-moly.
We've never had much luck with it and the tensile strength isn’t as high as say 4340 or 300m.
4340 is from the Nickel-Chromium family of 43xx steels and is not chromoly, 300m is a modified version of 4340. 300m is not a chromoly either. Totally different material.
To get drivetrain parts to live under extreme conditions, the material has to be able to survive high impact loads, be able to twist without breaking and spring back to it’s original state.

The automotive OEM's could produce some really great drivetrain parts if they wanted to but when they are cranking out cars by the 100,000's of thousands, spending an extra $100. on materials would really add up.
So they only design parts to live up to normal driving and warranty anything that breaks.

I love experimenting with different materials, seeing how they come out as far as tensile strength tests and also how they machine in our cnc machines.
Sorry if I rambled on but this stuff is what I love to do

[2012-2SS]

Since when do our camaros have launch control?

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by 2012-2SS

Since when do our camaros have launch control?

http://www.camaro5.com/launch-control-demo-information

[mclark10]

Originally Posted by 2012-2SS

Since when do our camaros have launch control?

March 16, 2009. Fleet test cars before that.

[carbon8]

Can anyone show pics of where the axels break at.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Higgs Boson]

they usually twist off one of the ends.

[Driveshaftshop]

check this out, this is a guy from Canada that changed the axles out on his car and didn't even know they were this bad.

[maxxer442]

Well, after all these posts to answer my question(thanks to you all, btw), I find it rediculous that I can't drive my $40k car aggressively once in a while, let alone attempt to hook it up at the track without fear of this happening. Shoot, my 400whp 4th gen had the "weak" 7.5 10 bolt in it and it lasted 85k miles! And I beat the crap out of that car! And I was about ready to start doin stuff to this car! You're saying $1500 axles are my only hope??!!

[1badtie]

I worry about this therefore i try my hardest to be as easy as possible on my car
I get extreme amounts of wheel hop when I have done some hard launches in the past
I only have an exhaust on my car as well this is why i want the zl1 i like the warranty that comes with it

[Driveshaftshop]

We do have the 1000hp anti wheel hop axles in stock and will stop the problem if your interested.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by maxxer442

Well, after all these posts to answer my question(thanks to you all, btw), I find it rediculous that I can't drive my $40k car aggressively once in a while, let alone attempt to hook it up at the track without fear of this happening. Shoot, my 400whp 4th gen had the "weak" 7.5 10 bolt in it and it lasted 85k miles! And I beat the crap out of that car! And I was about ready to start doin stuff to this car! You're saying $1500 axles are my only hope??!!

You can drive it. You just have to do it right....

street tires won't hook and therefore you won't break an axle. However, radial tires can wheel hop and break an axle.

you have to drive between those lines and you're good. otherwise, axles before the supercharger....

[GFORCE1320]

Anti wheel hop axles are about the only way to keep it from breaking axles if your going to be racing or even spinning the tires hard.
Our anti wheel hop axles work great at eliminating the wheel hop to where all you get is nice smooth tire spin.

Thanks
Chris

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by GFORCE1320

Anti wheel hop axles are about the only way to keep it from breaking axles if your going to be racing or even spinning the tires hard.
Our anti wheel hop axles work great at eliminating the wheel hop to where all you get is nice smooth tire spin.

Thanks
Chris

how do they work, what makes them anti hop rather than simply bulletproof?

[Driveshaftshop]

The way we have done it is to use 300m material and roll the splines onto the bars, one side is 1.166 and the other is a full 1.500 the way it works is the axle twist up and release at different rates allowing the tires to spin. the factory axles are made this way but don't quite work as well as our design. take a look





there made with billet 4340 cages and the center bars are 300m (not 4340 make sure you get 300m because the weight of the car will break 4340)

we do offer a forum discout also

[GFORCE1320]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

how do they work, what makes them anti hop rather than simply bulletproof?

Keeping the axles from wheel hopping will go a long ways in making them bullet proof.
If you make a strong axle out of high alloy materials plus give it an anti wheel hop design like all of our axles have then you have a really well engineered axle.
You have to stagger the diameters of the axles from side to side to absorb the harmonics of the wheel hop.
We started our anti wheel hop axles with the CTSV market and carried it over to the GTO, G8 and the Camaro market.

What happens when you get wheel hop is this.
The axles are always in a constant state of twist under acceleration, doesn't matter if it is a clutch dump or just rolling into the throttle hard.
When you break traction, the axle unloads and twists back the opposite way. When it does this, the tire gets a chance to get traction for a split second and bites into the pavement, it then slightly "hops" into the air from the momentary bit of traction and the sudden unloading of the axles.
Then the same thing happens on the other side a split second later and then it goes into a chain reaction from side to side until you let off the gas (or break something).
I hope that all made sense.

Thanks
Chris

[Higgs Boson]

very cool guys.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by maxxer442

So my 2010 SS M6 has around 10,000 easy miles on it-all from me. No racing, just run it thru the gears once in a while, no hard launches. I have tried the launch control like twice when I first bought it way back in 09. Didn't like it, its too violent. I had a buddy with me the other night, and he wanted to see how it worked. So I put it in the mode, it worked like it was supposed to, until I dumped the clutch and broke the right side half-shaft. What the heck! Is this a fluke? Do I have to worry about ever using that again? The car is bone stock with catback and a hurst short-throw. It was covered under warranty with no questions asked-but is this common?

It really is ridiculous that you have to spend $1500.00 on aftermarket axles, and another $1800.00 + installation costs on a quality clutch to have faith that when you drop the hammer on your stock or near stock vehicle you are not going to break something.