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Old 05-25-2009, 10:03 PM   #1
Whitten
 
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Just a voice of Reason

Lately this board has been on fire, and rightfully so since we are all so excited about finally seeing new 5th gens on the road and in our drive ways.

But some of these fires or panics de jour that someone else so eloquently put it have been completly out of control and honestly down right ridiculous /very destructive to us a community and to the very car that we love.

I have had some time to look back on the past couple of months and reflect on the similarities that we over here in the Camaro community have faced that have been just the same on many other forums.

The first issues have seemed to be focused on the price of the cars and dealer mark ups. Although many of you might think this is unique to us and that GM is the only company that does this but you would be greatly mistaken.
I am a member on many other forums some of which would make you shudder such as SVT Performance, but also Ferrai Chat, and Corvette Forum just to name a few.
Every single car release from the 2003 Cobra, the new 2005 Mustang, the 2007 GT-500, the 2005 F-430, 599, 2003 Z06, 2006 Z06, 2008 Challenger, Nissan GTR....yadda yadda yadda...the list goes on forever in a day. Every single new car gets dealer mark ups and that is a fact of life in a free market economy.
This does not mean that you have to pay them, but it does not mean that the Chevy dealers are not the only greedy dealers out there...they are going to ask what ever they can get for the car and you would too if sales was your life.

We live a great country that allows us choices, and when a dealer decides to mark a car up that much you can choose to put them on a gouge list, not purchase from them or even voice your concern to the dealership manager.

But....

And this is a biggie...When I hear of folks threatening dealerships with bomb threats, considering property damage over something as petty as a mark up that crosses the line.

Which brings me to my next point and this one is very simple,

if you have a written contract with fair market value as your agreed upon price DO NOT get pissed at the dealer when you get adjusted dealer mark up tacked onto your price...before you pulled your pen out to sign that contract initially you should have known better than to trust a dealer not put mark up on a new car.

If you have a contract that clearly states MSRP or Sticker and not a cent over then you are in the clear. If the dealership wants a mark up over that MSRP you have a binding contract that states what the terms are and if the dealership refuses to honor it then you have grounds for a breach of contract law suit in almost any state if not every. Instead of getting a bunch of people to call with angry messages for the dealership make one phone call to an attorney and be done with it.

It is not GM's fault if your dealership screws with you, they are privately owned businesses that represent GM's products and while they may be ambassadors they are not doing mark ups at GM's behest so lets drop that blame game from GM.

If you are purchasing a car from a dealership and you are #24 on the list but are still considered an R6P order...guess what...you are still #24 on the list and that dealer was only given a certain allotment that they are guaranteed to get. That dealership can not give a car that they have not yet received, and furthermore cannot push others out of line because you want yours now. R6P does not mean you get to go to the front of the line it just means you are an early order action and most of you know this already.

Threatening to cancel your order because you can't have it now only shows that you can throw pathetic temper tantrum. I honestly can not stand hearing a story more than hearing the "screw you GM for not getting my car to me right now" Especially when I find out that you ordered your car two months ago, and you were the 120th person on the list of 120 people. Take a chill, and if you don't think you can....the door is at the top right of your browser window and it is called log out...we don't need your unnecessary negativity.


To those of you that have ordered and your cars are sitting in QC hold I am truly sorry for you the most. You have been very patient and I can not imagine your frustration, but please hold on. I can assure that GM wants you to have your car more than you do.


The panics and the quality arguments have gotten old, but more than old we need to make sure they die for good. We all must realize that every time "we" bad mouth our cars that the rest of the car community is using our testimony to further show the Camaro or worse GM as a failure. Everytime this board errupts in another "up in arms moment" every other single car board all over the place especially your counter parts in the mustang community roll with delight as links are made to their respective boards showing our discontent over something which usually turns out to be nothing ( i.e. mismatched paint, cracks in the nose)

Lastly, the next person that calls Scott Settlemire out and blames him for wrong doing, demands his help "or else", or otherwise treats him with blatent disrespect I am out of here...That doesn't mean anything to ya'll but to be honest I have known Scott for several years now.

and...

I will not be associated with a group that can not reasonably voice concerns, ask questions without demanding, and or just be respectful when making comments. This is a man that selflessly devotes his time to you as the enthusiasts and is your direct line to not just Camaro team but to GM. He has worked crazy hours, gone to cars shows, shaken hands, and talked with thousands of us all for the love of our Camaro. To get in a pissing match or be otherwise disrespectful to him will be enough to run him off from here...and trust me he will do just that if this place continues to get out of hand...it has happened before in the past from other sites.
I can tell you that if that happens most sites typically never really recover with regards to quality.

All of this being said, I am prepared for flames towards me...I invite them in fact, but I will ask that you keep them directed to me and only me.
I don't want you all rabidly trying to tear each other apart with "he said she said", furthermore I will ask that you try your best to be realize that I am nothing more than a fellow enthusiast that just wants to see this place continue to grow and get better.


Respectfully,

Michael Whitten
Friend and Huge Camaro Enthusiast
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:11 PM   #2
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I think you're about two weeks late. It's been a while since the last panic.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:12 PM   #3
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I highly agree with all your points here.
everybody marks up items that are in demand its the american way.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:13 PM   #4
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Thanks for the thoughts and concerns Whitten. You have valid points. Please understand that the large amount of recent negativity on these boards should not be used to generalize the entire community of Camaro5. For the most part, most of us are sane people. Alot of the issues that have cropped up lately have brought out the worst in some people but the mods here are working hard to make sure this stays a quality site. I've only been a member here since September, but I was reading these forums for much longer than that, and I can tell you that this is a good community.

Again.. thanks for the post. Maybe some people will lighten up a bit and calm down.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:13 PM   #5
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so if you ordered a car back in october and agreed to buying the car at msrp you would walk away with a smile if you got screwed over when your car came in and the dealer decided to sell it to someone else for 5k over? you should be nominated for saint hood

sorry i didnt read past that part....its a long post
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:16 PM   #6
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I agree 100%. I actually haven't been on the forum as much as usual due to the many negative posts/panic du jours.

I hope your post brings everyone back down to earth.



......(just so there's no confusion, the Camaro5 forum has been very helpful to me and I do appreciate the site immensely)
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:16 PM   #7
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:19 PM   #8
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I'm with you!
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:21 PM   #9
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Very good write up with excellent points. Couldn't agree more.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:21 PM   #10
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We as a community will be respected more if we don't freak out over little things.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:21 PM   #11
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too much forme to read....can someone cliffnote this for me ?
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil_chef View Post
so if you ordered a car back in october and agreed to buying the car at msrp you would walk away with a smile if you got screwed over when your car came in and the dealer decided to sell it to someone else for 5k over? you should be nominated for saint hood

sorry i didnt read past that part....its a long post
Go back and read what I wrote.


If you ordered a car and the contract clearly states MSRP don't waste your time griping on a forum. Contact a professional like an attorney and sue them for breach of contract. Liable of their name all over the internet is only going to make a case against you. You have a valid breach of contract law suit which will more than likely end up with a single phone call from an attorney followed by the dealer calling you to come pick up your car.

If you don't have any paper work and just the salesman's word....walk away, because you are a fool.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
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too much forme to read....can someone cliffnote this for me ?
Basically, he said to relax, not disrespect insiders and mods, appreciate what we have, and be nice.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:28 PM   #14
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Some drama ineveitable in all communities - but at times there is a tendency to panic - but part of that is also that no-one wants to have saved / waited for years and either, get a lemon, get nothing or feel like they are taken advantage of and when there is passion behind the subject matter then all of these other angles come into play - especially with worldwide financial climate and GM headed to chapter 11. You could write a book on this stuff a year from now ;-)
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:34 PM   #15
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supply and demand baby...

look at what happened with the nintendo wii came out a few years ago....

but i think the biggest fear is gm surviving...thats why our guys here are so ancy...if we knew gm's future was solid i think we'd all be ok waiting a few months
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitten View Post
And this is a biggie...When I hear of folks threatening dealerships with bomb threats, considering property damage over something as petty as a mark up that crosses the line.


Lastly, the next person that calls Scott Settlemire out and blames him for wrong doing, demands his help "or else", or otherwise treats him with blatent disrespect I am out of here...That doesn't mean anything to ya'll but to be honest I have known Scott for several years now.
Thats quite an accusation, I read this forum all the time and have never run across threats like you describe, nor anyone blaming any one person
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:45 PM   #17
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I agree with you, all of your points are valid. No one should cut down Scott S, he's given us very good info and truly believes in the Camaro. Asking that he answer our conserns is alright, he can answer or not, that's up to him. I do think someone from GM should answer some of the most asked questions. It should really cut down the rumor mill and trash talk. Being in the dark over our area 51 cars is nuts. I will wait til it gets here, no matter how long. I love GM vehicles, I own 11 and waiting for #12. If a dealer wants to markup or not honor an agreement, I'll not buy from him and will let everyone know it. If I'm cheated, they and everyone I can tell will know it. My dealer has never sold above msrp, even on the ZR1, and says they never will. There are many of us in the same boat on several issues and sometimes knowing that it's not just you makes us feel better. If you see a line that appears not to intrest you, just scroll past, if I read every thread, I'd probably have written one like yours a long time ago.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitten View Post

If you ordered a car and the contract clearly states MSRP don't waste your time griping on a forum. Contact a professional like an attorney and sue them for breach of contract. Liable of their name all over the internet is only going to make a case against you. You have a valid breach of contract law suit which will more than likely end up with a single phone call from an attorney followed by the dealer calling you to come pick up your car.

If you don't have any paper work and just the salesman's word....walk away, because you are a fool.
I have to disagree with you on this item. I think a forum is exactly the place to vent. Not only do you get it off your chest but you also warn un expecting customers of a dealer that apparently is saying one thing (on the MSRP list) and doing another. This Forum is here for people to talk about their Camaro experience, good or bad.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:46 PM   #19
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And to Scott, and



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Old 05-25-2009, 10:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCF w00t View Post
I think you're about two weeks late. It's been a while since the last panic.
He had to calm down before he posted Something we could all learn from
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:54 PM   #21
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I total agree with what has been said. I am one that ordered in Nov and am on QC hold but will wait for it awhile longer. Now I know my dealer will sell me my car at the agreed upon writing of MSRP and if that MSRP ends up being the updated price... well I'll pay it because I want this car. I sure hope those words above sink into a few folks on here because they have in me. Happy Memoral Day all!
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:57 PM   #22
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Long live the Camarocracy!
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:58 PM   #23
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There, I fixed it for ya
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:27 PM   #24
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I agree with you 100%,all of the arguments you make are quite valid, however many of us ordered last year(or even well before that), Yes we are "antsy" and impatient, some of us grew up in the era of instant gratification... I for one am willing to wait, but its still been a long time.....
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:41 PM   #25
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Quit Cryin. Leave Scott alone or I'm leaving.
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