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Old 08-09-2012, 01:05 AM   #1
Mr.Karate
 
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Blew out my sub after 1 day. Need advice...

Just started doing mods to my 1ss yesterday. Got a new Fostgate p1000 amp installed along with a 12" JL audio w6v2. I was extremely pleased with everything up until about 11am today. I'm playing my music on the freeway when suddenly there's no more bass. It was pretty hot in downtown LA today plus i had been playing music for a good 30 minutes. I figured i'd just let the amp cool down and it would turn back on later. Unfortunately, it never came back on. So immediately I called the car audio shop that did my install. I didn't buy the sub from them because they don't carry JL. I only let them do the install because of their yelp reviews and the price they gave me on the amp and installation. I make it to the shop and the technician tells me the amp is fine but the subwoofer is blown. So I took the sub to the shop i bought it from hoping for a snappy exchange. Here's where the fun starts.

The first thing the shop keep does is smell it. He tells me it smells burnt. He then passes it to his coworkers to get their opinion. They agreed with him. He then shows me where the voice coil had actually been damaged and was beyond repair. Due to all that i couldn't get the sub exchanged because JL's warranty doesn't cover Voice coil damage. He did say he'd speak with his manager tomorrow to work something out for me but I doubt I'll get a new sub.

From the research I've done it seems that the W6v2 is a very durable sub but i know all subs have their limits. The amp i got can put out a maximum 1000 watts rms but I was assured it would be configured appropriately for my w6 which is recommended to operate at about 500 rms. I'd like to add that I did have my bass knob (the one that came with the amp) all the way up. Now here's a few things about that. I have a Nissan Maruano with a JL 500/1 amp and a 12" W3v2. My bass knob is at the maximum ALL THE TIME. As a matter of fact it stays turned up. I've had this system for about 2 years and I've never blown any subs. So I didn't see a problem with having the bass knob turned up in the camaro. I felt like i Should be able to keep it at max if I wanted to. Even with the bass knob turned all the way up, I didn't hear any distortion. It sounded perfect as a matter of fact. I'm hoping to get some advice from someone who knows more about car audio than I do. I really don't know if I should go after my installer or the JL audio dealer. The place i bought the sub from blames my installer for not configuring the amp appropriately. While the installer blames them for selling me faulty equipment. If having the bass knob up all the way was that bad of a thing, I will accept full responsibility and just buy a new sub. But like i mentioned before, I feel it should be ok for me to have it all the way up if i wanted to. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks folks.

Last edited by Mr.Karate; 08-09-2012 at 01:22 AM. Reason: incomplete title
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:00 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Karate View Post
Just started doing mods to my 1ss yesterday. Got a new Fostgate p1000 amp installed along with a 12" JL audio w6v2. I was extremely pleased with everything up until about 11am today. I'm playing my music on the freeway when suddenly there's no more bass. It was pretty hot in downtown LA today plus i had been playing music for a good 30 minutes. I figured i'd just let the amp cool down and it would turn back on later. Unfortunately, it never came back on. So immediately I called the car audio shop that did my install. I didn't buy the sub from them because they don't carry JL. I only let them do the install because of their yelp reviews and the price they gave me on the amp and installation. I make it to the shop and the technician tells me the amp is fine but the subwoofer is blown. So I took the sub to the shop i bought it from hoping for a snappy exchange. Here's where the fun starts.

The first thing the shop keep does is smell it. He tells me it smells burnt. He then passes it to his coworkers to get their opinion. They agreed with him. He then shows me where the voice coil had actually been damaged and was beyond repair. Due to all that i couldn't get the sub exchanged because JL's warranty doesn't cover Voice coil damage. He did say he'd speak with his manager tomorrow to work something out for me but I doubt I'll get a new sub.

From the research I've done it seems that the W6v2 is a very durable sub but i know all subs have their limits. The amp i got can put out a maximum 1000 watts rms but I was assured it would be configured appropriately for my w6 which is recommended to operate at about 500 rms. I'd like to add that I did have my bass knob (the one that came with the amp) all the way up. Now here's a few things about that. I have a Nissan Maruano with a JL 500/1 amp and a 12" W3v2. My bass knob is at the maximum ALL THE TIME. As a matter of fact it stays turned up. I've had this system for about 2 years and I've never blown any subs. So I didn't see a problem with having the bass knob turned up in the camaro. I felt like i Should be able to keep it at max if I wanted to. Even with the bass knob turned all the way up, I didn't hear any distortion. It sounded perfect as a matter of fact. I'm hoping to get some advice from someone who knows more about car audio than I do. I really don't know if I should go after my installer or the JL audio dealer. The place i bought the sub from blames my installer for not configuring the amp appropriately. While the installer blames them for selling me faulty equipment. If having the bass knob up all the way was that bad of a thing, I will accept full responsibility and just buy a new sub. But like i mentioned before, I feel it should be ok for me to have it all the way up if i wanted to. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks folks.
I don't see how they could have wired the sub improperly. It has 2 x 4 ohm coils, so they could either wire it as a 2 ohm load, or a 4 ohm load. At 4 ohms, the P1000 is rated at 250w, and at 2 ohm it is rated at 500w. Punch amps put out more than rated, but usually not by a whole lot. You're probably only putting out a max of 600w at 2 ohm, so based on what you have said, I would side with your installer.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:30 AM   #3
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Thanks for the response. I appreciate the help
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:51 AM   #4
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There are many variables to this..but i wanna ask one question. When u first go the speakers working...do u realize u have to break them in for about 6 hrs of good music in a medium volume setting. U also have to let the 6 hrs be broken up...so u cant play the speakers 6 hrs straight. this allows a few hot and cold cycles. This is min break in procedure for all speakers. And failure to do so will easily chance a problem with a speaker. If the coils are burnt this is a clear case of rms overload ( or in sum cases lack of air movement, aka, sealed boxes, or bad port config boxes)...and in the end ..the end user is in control of the knob
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:55 AM   #5
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It sounds like your amp is giving the sub the recommended RMS power of 500 watts (or at least close). There is a good chance that you were driving your amp into clipping, especially if you had your bass boost cranked all the way up. Driving the amp way into clipping for a long time is probably what killed your sub. JL stuff is pretty beefy but it does have limits.

If your installer set gains on the amp so it provides max power when you were close to full volume that would mean your amp would likely only get to clipping the output signal occasionally - and only when you were close to full volume. Basically your installer probably set the gains so the amp hits full power output when the radio is at around 80% volume.

Your bass boost essentially an additional remote control gain knob so you are basically making the amp hit full power output much sooner than you would before (hence it sounding louder at lower volumes). So now at 45% volume on the radio the amp is pushing full power to the sub. Beyond full power your amp will clip and send a distorted signal to the speaker. This can kill the speaker, especially if you do it long enough.

There are a ton of variables here which is why you may have been fine in your last vehicle. The gains could have been set lower in your last car so the bass boost only pushed them closer to where they ought to be or the amp you had powering your last sub wasn't as powerful relative to what the sub could handle, etc.

Bottom line, once you get your gains properly set, use the bass boost sparingly. If can quickly push you into clipping.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:58 AM   #6
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Did you buy the sub from an Authorized JL Dealer?
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:19 PM   #7
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Did you buy the sub from an Authorized JL Dealer?
Yea, it was from an authorized dealer. I found them on JL's website.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:27 PM   #8
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camarostar 2010 u r right must break in treat it like a virgin.then give it HELL
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by darkrider01 View Post
I don't see how they could have wired the sub improperly. It has 2 x 4 ohm coils, so they could either wire it as a 2 ohm load, or a 4 ohm load. At 4 ohms, the P1000 is rated at 250w, and at 2 ohm it is rated at 500w. Punch amps put out more than rated, but usually not by a whole lot. You're probably only putting out a max of 600w at 2 ohm, so based on what you have said, I would side with your installer.
I would be curious to know how the sub was wired. If it's 4ohm DVC, it's either 2 ohm, or 8 ohm (you can't wire one 4ohm DVC to be 4ohm). If it was accidentally wired in 8 ohm... I would doubt your audio shop wired it wrong, but there is always the chance. DVC can come in more than just 4ohm coils, and if there was a mistake about what the coils were, could be wired wrong. If they somehow thought it was a 2ohm DVC, wired in series for 4 ohm, but it was actually a 4ohm DVC... just saying. I know that sub only comes in 4ohm, but just providing example. The reason you don't have that problem with the JL "slash" series amps, is because the power supply will adjust to always put it's rated power out, weather it's 2 ohms or 4. Your current amp puts out RMS power dependant on the load. That amp/sub combo is pretty ideal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by camarostar2010 View Post
There are many variables to this..but i wanna ask one question. When u first go the speakers working...do u realize u have to break them in for about 6 hrs of good music in a medium volume setting. U also have to let the 6 hrs be broken up...so u cant play the speakers 6 hrs straight. this allows a few hot and cold cycles. This is min break in procedure for all speakers. And failure to do so will easily chance a problem with a speaker. If the coils are burnt this is a clear case of rms overload ( or in sum cases lack of air movement, aka, sealed boxes, or bad port config boxes)...and in the end ..the end user is in control of the knob
I have never, and I mean never, broken in a speaker like that. I agree that speakers have break-in time (after which you should re-listen and retune possibly). And yeah, I probably would not crank and keep at full volume immediately... but I certainly have never broken in speakers how you describe, and I've been doing this for 12 years. I'm still running the same JL 12"s that I bought in 2000, never blown one, and I beat the crap out of those things. Speaker break in will be debated the same way engine break in will be, so I don't really care to discuss what is "proper". Not trying to rub you the wrong way, I just disagree, and have never seen any real life scenario to validate that. Stereo places will abuse their woofers from the first time they come out of the box for a demo room. I would know, because I've been there. We never broke in a speaker.

Voice coil damage can also occur from underpowering it too, and then trying to turn it up too loud. This causes clipping as well, which is previously mentioned. I personally would much rather overpower a speaker than underpower it. Underpowering leads to distortion as well, which is horrible for a speaker. And yes, airspace, heat and some other variables will affect that as well. Even a box that isn't ported correctly will cause sub damage, and so will blasting it as loud as you can with the trunk wide open for a good period of time. CAN, not will. So I pretty much agree with everything else you say.

Anyway, I kind of rambled... but I would hazzard to guess you turned the bass up too high and it clipped like has been said. I highly doubt it's because you didn't "break your speaker in" though. It's much more likely distortion/clipping killed it.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarostar2010 View Post
There are many variables to this..but i wanna ask one question. When u first go the speakers working...do u realize u have to break them in for about 6 hrs of good music in a medium volume setting. U also have to let the 6 hrs be broken up...so u cant play the speakers 6 hrs straight. this allows a few hot and cold cycles. This is min break in procedure for all speakers. And failure to do so will easily chance a problem with a speaker. If the coils are burnt this is a clear case of rms overload ( or in sum cases lack of air movement, aka, sealed boxes, or bad port config boxes)...and in the end ..the end user is in control of the knob
I have heard this (and I break in speakers myself) forever about breaking in speakers. However, it does not mention a break-in period anywhere in the manual for the sub. Just sayin.... The sub retailer should just warranty it.

http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/...pdf?1305783844
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:02 PM   #11
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I would be curious to know how the sub was wired. If it's 4ohm DVC, it's either 2 ohm, or 8 ohm (you can't wire one 4ohm DVC to be 4ohm). If it was accidentally wired in 8 ohm... I would doubt your audio shop wired it wrong, but there is always the chance. DVC can come in more than just 4ohm coils, and if there was a mistake about what the coils were, could be wired wrong. If they somehow thought it was a 2ohm DVC, wired in series for 4 ohm, but it was actually a 4ohm DVC... just saying. I know that sub only comes in 4ohm, but just providing example. The reason you don't have that problem with the JL "slash" series amps, is because the power supply will adjust to always put it's rated power out, weather it's 2 ohms or 4. Your current amp puts out RMS power dependant on the load. That amp/sub combo is pretty ideal.
Wiring it at 8 ohms would probably cause damage to the amp before the sub though - unless it was too quiet and the op clipped it. So many variables...

How was the gain set?
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:18 PM   #12
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There is no answer her gents....just experiences. no real wrongs....just different possibilties
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:28 AM   #13
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They should be able to get it warrantied. No where does it actually spell out that the warranty doesnt cover voice coils. Anytime i've ever had to warranty a speaker for someone, 90% of the time it was because of a voice coil. A shop that has a good relationship with their distributor should be able to get you a speaker, no questions asked. Memphis doesnt even have me return subs/speakers anymore. I just have to cut the cones out and give them to my sales rep when he stops by.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:04 AM   #14
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After owning nightclubs for many many years I can tell you clipping will kill a sub fast. We had been working in our audio rack in one of my clubs and my tech forgot to lock the plexi glass front one night. The DJ went in and turned up the gain knobs on the QSC bass amps and I loss 4 EV 18 subs in one night.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #15
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Even if JL doesn't warranty it (which I bet they will), you can send it in for repair. They will refurb it and give you a 90 day warranty on the repair too. It might be cheaper than buying a whole new sub.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:06 PM   #16
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I'm a little upset now. I know I messed up the subs but the JL dealer has had it for 2 days now. They keep telling me they're waiting on the JL rep to get back to them to give them some sort of authorization. They are on JL's website as an authorized dealer. I think they're acting like this because I didn't get it installed by them. Lesson learned indeed.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:43 PM   #17
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shit the vc is the only real moving part..silly
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