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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 08-15-2012, 10:24 PM   #51
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Obviously this thread was moved to this forum from somewhere else on this site. Let's get a couple of facts straight, the Z/28 was not originally made to compete with the Boss 302 in the Can-Am series, the series was the SCCA TranAm Sedan Series and the Z/28 was produced over two years before the Boss 302 ever existed. Almost everyone that posted in this thread would do well to read some of the threads/info that has already been posted in this forum over the last three years or so, I'll not try to repeat all of that in this brief reply, I will just say we have considered many things and discussed what is possible and what is not really workable. I do appreciate everyone's interest (or non interest for some) in a Z/28, time will tell if it is produced for the fifth. gen Camaro, sixth gen Camaro, or never.
You're right on the Trans-Am; I had Can-Am stuck in my head from watching old videos the other night. I remember seeing the first Z/28 in 1968 and the Boss 302 being introduced that same year. I remember Chevy winning and Ford losing. I'll do some research as to actual dates though since that was a long time ago and my memory might be slightly off a year or two.

When you say "we"... whom are you referring to?
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:44 AM   #52
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You're right on the Trans-Am; I had Can-Am stuck in my head from watching old videos the other night. I remember seeing the first Z/28 in 1968 and the Boss 302 being introduced that same year. I remember Chevy winning and Ford losing. I'll do some research as to actual dates though since that was a long time ago and my memory might be slightly off a year or two.

When you say "we"... whom are you referring to?


The Z/28 went into production in December 1966 as a '67 model. In 1968 the Mustang was still running the Tunnel Port 302 which was a dismal failure, the Boss 302 was released as a '69 model. The "we" is all of the Z/28 forum regulars that have been discussing/debating these issues for quite a long time.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:38 AM   #53
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The Z/28 went into production in December 1966 as a '67 model. In 1968 the Mustang was still running the Tunnel Port 302 which was a dismal failure, the Boss 302 was released as a '69 model. The "we" is all of the Z/28 forum regulars that have been discussing/debating these issues for quite a long time.
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So after doing some reading it seems the idea of the Z/28 was developed in 1966 and it was produced and sold in 1967 of which there were only 602 sold which explains why I don't remember seeing one on the street in 1967; there weren't that many made. I remember seeing them in 1968 though and I believe the Boss 302 began sales in 1968 although it was model year 1969.

I didn't know the back story of Vincent Piggins; I always thought it was Pete Estes that was responsible. He was the one who approved it but it was interesting reading Piggin's account of how that came about.

It was indeed created for the Trans-Am series and Chevy had to produce enough for the street to qualify it. It was interesting to read how they managed that qualification lol.

http://camaros.us/camaro-z28-history-first-gen/

I remember Riverside Raceway; met Mark Donohue out there once and got his autograph on my pit pass which I still have. That was such a great track; saw many great races by legendary drivers. Wish it was still around; it was one-of-a-kind but they tore it down and put up a stupid mall.

After seeing the ZL1 and 1LE, whatever the Chevy team finally does to be worth the name Z/28, it's going to be a great car.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:39 AM   #54
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So after doing some reading it seems the idea of the Z/28 was developed in 1966 and it was produced and sold in 1967 of which there were only 602 sold which explains why I don't remember seeing one on the street in 1967; there weren't that many made. I remember seeing them in 1968 though and I believe the Boss 302 began sales in 1968 although it was model year 1969.

I didn't know the back story of Vincent Piggins; I always thought it was Pete Estes that was responsible. He was the one who approved it but it was interesting reading Piggin's account of how that came about.

It was indeed created for the Trans-Am series and Chevy had to produce enough for the street to qualify it. It was interesting to read how they managed that qualification lol.

http://camaros.us/camaro-z28-history-first-gen/

I remember Riverside Raceway; met Mark Donohue out there once and got his autograph on my pit pass which I still have. That was such a great track; saw many great races by legendary drivers. Wish it was still around; it was one-of-a-kind but they tore it down and put up a stupid mall.

After seeing the ZL1 and 1LE, whatever the Chevy team finally does to be worth the name Z/28, it's going to be a great car.
Actually there were as few on the street in '67, when I was shopping for new '67, one of the Chevy dealers in town had a burgundy one on their used car lot. At that point I didn't really know/understand what they were, so only looked it over briefly, bought a new RS Camaro instead. And yes, there were more on the street in '68 and by then I knew exactly what a Z/28 was.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:37 AM   #55
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DOH! yeah the Trans Am; I was looking at some old videos of the Jim Hall Chaparral cars and had Can Am stuck in my head. You're right!
Yes the Chapparels, Maclarens and the Lola T70 is my all time favorite. They could do all most anything they wanted with a Can Am car. I believe some had upwards of a 1,000 HP.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:30 PM   #56
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Good posts Doc.......maybe we can make Doc an OG.....
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:23 AM   #57
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Good posts Doc.......maybe we can make Doc an OG.....
But would the newbies be able to deal with 7 OGs instead of 6?
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:29 AM   #58
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Good posts Doc.......maybe we can make Doc an OG.....
OG?
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:25 AM   #59
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OG?
OG refers to a thread on the Z/28 forum where someone unfamilar with Camaro info posted and all of the older members that knew the info corrected him, he posted back complaining about this forum being "run by six Old Geezers"! So we older members took it in stride and started referring to ourselves as the old geezers or OGs for short. So it would actually be an honor to be made one of the OGs.
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Old 08-18-2012, 01:41 PM   #60
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Hey, who are you calling'...OG?
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:23 PM   #61
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OG refers to a thread on the Z/28 forum where someone unfamilar with Camaro info posted and all of the older members that knew the info corrected him, he posted back complaining about this forum being "run by six Old Geezers"! So we older members took it in stride and started referring to ourselves as the old geezers or OGs for short. So it would actually be an honor to be made one of the OGs.
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LOL ok yeah that would be cool.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:50 PM   #62
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I do enjoy Z/28 history, BUT I would prefer to write a new chapter.



CAMARO TEAM,

TIME TO MAKE THE DONUTS, BURN OUTS, PULL PORSCHES IN THE TURNS WITH AN LS7 Z/28.

Anyone else on board with this?
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:54 PM   #63
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I do enjoy Z/28 history, BUT I would prefer to write a new chapter.



CAMARO TEAM,

TIME TO MAKE THE DONUTS, BURN OUTS, PULL PORSCHES IN THE TURNS WITH AN LS7 Z/28.

Anyone else on board with this?
Does a bear crap in the woods? Does a tree make a...Pete did you really have to ask?
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:26 PM   #64
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Does a bear crap in the woods? Does a tree make a...Pete did you really have to ask?
He lost his head for a moment or forgot where he was!
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:49 PM   #65
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50TH Z/28 only thats your special car
either an LS7 possibly 5.3 ????
or supercharged or twin turbo V6
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:30 PM   #66
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50TH Z/28 only thats your special car
either an LS7 possibly 5.3 ????
or supercharged or twin turbo V6



Doc,see what we mean?
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:32 AM   #67
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Doc,see what we mean?
Lol...yeah....I do. Fortunately the people on the Camaro team know better. I'm guessing we'll see the Z/28 as the show topper next summer leading the charge for the new 6th gen Camaros for model year 2014.

I'm really hoping they can get the weight down under 3,600 lbs which would be a great starting point to begin modding the car. Based on what I'm seeing in the 1LE there may not be all that much to do to a Z/28 which would also be great; just get light-weight track wheels, track tires and spend your money going to track events.
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:44 AM   #68
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Take a 1Le and drop in a ls7 or the new direct injection gen 5 if it indeed debuts in the vette. Be a heck of a last year of the fifth gen run.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:17 AM   #69
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Thanks Pete.
Ditto.

Couple questions for Pete, though.

Around 8:00 into the first video there's some sort of discussion going on. Care to share?

In the second video there seems to be a consistent buzzing noise under braking. Any idea what that was?


Quote:
Now Please everyone stop worrying about the 5Gen's weight!
Believe me, I'm trying. The cornering and handling performance levels are amazing.

What's a bit difficult for me is resolving that with the same characteristics of cars weighing barely half that, which is ultimately the comparison I keep coming back to because that's what sports cars used to weigh. I came this >| |< close to buying an MGB in 1970.

Back in the mid 1970's a friend of mine owned a 39xx lb big-block 2nd Gen Camaro. Mildly modified for autocross and brisk TSD rallye driving it was pretty good for its day. But these cars would all eat it for lunch at any venue you'd care to choose.

Further, I can't help but think that over a 20 minute track session there's still a bit to be had from a little less weight per mm of tire tread width. Particularly if the laps are being timed for Optima or similar purposes.


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Old 08-19-2012, 11:47 AM   #70
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Ditto.

Couple questions for Pete, though.

Around 8:00 into the first video there's some sort of discussion going on. Care to share? Brake pads. Another 'expert' underestimated the performance range of a dialed in 5th Gen. The brake fade was horrendous. We have that fixed

In the second video there seems to be a consistent buzzing noise under braking. Any idea what that was?

We tuck the in car microphone between the the seat back and bottom. It slipped out and was against the seat track.



Believe me, I'm trying. The cornering and handling performance levels are amazing.

What's a bit difficult for me is resolving that with the same characteristics of cars weighing barely half that, which is ultimately the comparison I keep coming back to because that's what sports cars used to weigh. I came this >| |< close to buying an MGB in 1970.

Back in the mid 1970's a friend of mine owned a 39xx lb big-block 2nd Gen Camaro. Mildly modified for autocross and brisk TSD rallye driving it was pretty good for its day. But these cars would all eat it for lunch at any venue you'd care to choose.

Further, I can't help but think that over a 20 minute track session there's still a bit to be had from a little less weight per mm of tire tread width. Particularly if the laps are being timed for Optima or similar purposes.


Norm
Norm,

Our quest is motivated by our affection for the 5th Gen. Anyone can buy a Vette or Porsche and be fast on track We think and have done this to those cars. The OPTIMA is based on ONE lap. We have to run above 200 tread wear tires. After the third hot lap the tires are going away and not getting better. To do well, your car and driver must be prepared to lay it down hot and fast. I watched a $450,000 Porsche with a pretty damn good driver run multiple sessions and laps trying to catch the L/28 time at Road America. He was very consistent, but as the day grew warmer the track starts to slip away, his tires never recovered and he never caught the L/28. His lap times fell by just the slightest tick each time he ran. By the end of the day he was just over a second slower than his best lap run in the first session.

A tiny ballerina can effortlessly perform gracefully. We are asking Dick Butkus to perform like that ballerina. Last ear Danny Popp drove Todd Rumpke's Vette to a stunning victory at the OPTIMA following SEMA. I think his road course time was over 4 seconds faster than #2. Danny and Todd have had the Vette at several OPTIMA events. The Vette has been refined and tuned since last year's OUSCI. We are running 3 to 4 seconds behind that car or good enough to have placed 2nd in 2011. We know that other cars will come back faster. We are still tweaking setups on the L/28 and Bruce Raymond's Camaro. We haven't put a finished car on track and yet we are close. It is up to me to get the best possible suspension under both cars. There are some 'special' pieces underneath both of them. I guess I have to make them more special
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:44 PM   #71
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Thanks, Pete, makes perfect sense.

The 200 TW limitation was also in place for the "Run To The Shore" event held at NJMP this past spring, and I noticed the same thing. Except that in my case as a total track newbie it was two or three sessions later rather than only 2 or 3 laps.


Side note - there were two 2010 Camaro entries at that event, and both of those drivers handed me my a$$ on the big track (but I salvaged a little by splitting between them in the autocross and speed-stop).

There's something about that analogy about making these cars dance that just fits the situation . . .


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Old 08-19-2012, 01:29 PM   #72
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I agree Pete, no doubt there are other cars more capable of certain types of racing. For weekends up in the mountains I drive a pretty tricked out Miata (what a blast EXTRA tossable. But for those of us that love the look (and memories brought back of 1Gens), we want to make the 5Gen as track worthy as possible which will be pure awesomeness. I look forward to days in the mountains with the Miata and track sessions at Road Atlanta with my Z28.
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:39 PM   #73
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My first car was a pristine 1964 Ford Fairlane. I had it about a month when my Dad wrecked it. He felt so bad I ended up with HEMI Charger. That was stolen and replaced with a 70 Charger. Then came the BMW 2002tii. Handling!!! Since that first super handling BMW I have wanted an American Muscle Car to out handle the imports. We are there with the 5th Gen. It only took me 40 years to get there.
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Old 08-19-2012, 03:25 PM   #74
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Nice! I had a 1976 Formula and then went to a 1979 Trans Am with the WS6 package. For back in the non-sporty car days (the mid to late 70's) I loved the feel of the stiffer Herb Adams designed suspension. As much as I love power I love a great handling car better. But given the chance I'll take both.
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Old 08-19-2012, 03:37 PM   #75
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I do enjoy Z/28 history, BUT I would prefer to write a new chapter.



CAMARO TEAM,

TIME TO MAKE THE DONUTS, BURN OUTS, PULL PORSCHES IN THE TURNS WITH AN LS7 Z/28.

Anyone else on board with this?
Ahem....
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