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Forced Induction - V6 V6 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

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Old 08-17-2012, 10:52 AM   #1
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Post FI for MPG instead of power?

Hey all, recently in my area I'd seen both a Silverado and a Corvette with vinyl numbers/advertising on the side. Come to find out they are claimed MPG values, and they are rather impressive if true:

Corvette - 40mpg city 32mpg highway - 775HP 691ft-lb
Silverado - 32mpg city 28mpg highway - 500HP 450ft-lb

http://www.genesvettes.com/index.html

They also claim that because of their work with the manufacturer, the package installation is covered by the factory warranty, and installs in about three hours. They appear to use a remote turbo system, custom tuning, but not much info other than that.

Getting to our V6's, I see the most common push for FI being raw numbers, but would it be possible to build for straight efficiency and MPG as the goal?

I DD my Camaro, so if I could see better MPG numbers, the system would pay for itself over the life of the car. I don't honestly have a need for more power, but if I could see small/no gains but get better MPG...that would make the vehicle go from just being awesome for me to being nearly perfect.

In my layman's mind it would also seem to be a different way to approach the fueling issue with FI, where instead of not having enough fuel or being able to deliver it, we'd be instead trying to get the most out of what we already have.

So is this snake oil/pipe dream or something within the realm of possibility? Are any gains just the result of a refined tune?

I would also bet that the system could probably be adapted to the V8 Camaros as well...so if it's plausible then we may need to get a head start so they can't claim more power and better MPGs!
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:04 AM   #2
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I get the same mpg's. With the IPF just try to stay away from lean conditions.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:06 AM   #3
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Better then stock. 33-34 if I would drive the speed limit
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:41 AM   #4
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Ford has already done this with most of their EcoBoost engines. FI for better MPG's
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:50 AM   #5
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Typically what happens is that the hwy mpg goes up more than city with just turbos. I'm guessing this is more than just FI and a tune since you see a very big increase in the city mpg. I'm guessing they are combining the FI with DOD/AFM and tuning it so that the engine continures to run on fewer cylinders under greater load. They may also be using some hybrid tech here, too. Just a guess though.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:56 AM   #6
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My MPG went down with the supercharger, I'm at about 16.5 mpg city (.5 better than an SS) and my highway basically went unchanged. I see no way that a supercharger is going to increase your mpg, your making more power on the same engine, why would it go up? Turbo MAYBE. So it has got to be in the tuning.

So basically what Gretchen said.

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Ford has already done this with most of their EcoBoost engines. FI for better MPG's
Yeah but they're typically doing a turbo'd four cylinder as opposed to a V6.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:10 PM   #7
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My MPG went down with the supercharger, I'm at about 16.5 mpg city (.5 better than an SS) and my highway basically went unchanged. I see no way that a supercharger is going to increase your mpg, your making more power on the same engine, why would it go up? Turbo MAYBE. So it has got to be in the tuning.

So basically what Gretchen said.



Yeah but they're typically doing a turbo'd four cylinder as opposed to a V6.
Trust me the are selling a lot of the v6 EBs especially in the F150. In fact earlier this year they had to add another shift at the plant that makes the v6 EB.

As to the OP... Adding FI won't really increase your MPG. What is does is give you increased performance without the MPG penalty of a bigger motor. That's the EcoBoost's tag line "The power of a V8 with the fuel efficiency of a V6"
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:37 PM   #8
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Trust me the are selling a lot of the v6 EBs especially in the F150. In fact earlier this year they had to add another shift at the plant that makes the v6 EB.
Guess I should have been more clear. EB four cylinder as opposed to N/A V6.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:45 PM   #9
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Yep turbo's are more efficient than a SC also because of how different the systems make the extra power. Reusing exhaust for extra power makes sense when as a SC puts a extra load on the engine to make power. My buddy has a single turbo SS and gets 26mpg on his. I get 18.6mpg because I drive like a butt. I use to get 22mpg when I first get it back. But the tune is also key, I'm wasting 30% of my fuel because I'm running rich. And this was measured on the dyno and I'm not making it up.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:39 PM   #10
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Very cool, but to be getting 40MPG in the city their has to be more work done than a finely tuned FI setup in my opinion. (too lazy right now to check out the website)
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:47 PM   #11
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Very cool, but to be getting 40MPG in the city their has to be more work done than a finely tuned FI setup in my opinion. (too lazy right now to check out the website)
According to their website that's all it is... Highly efficient tuning. Sorry I'm going with snake oil...
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
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According to their website that's all it is... Highly efficient tuning. Sorry I'm going with snake oil...
Yeah I couldn't resist...I checked it out. Claiming nothing but rear mount turbo technology and efficient tuning. Have to see to believe.
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Yeah I couldn't resist...I checked it out. Claiming nothing but rear mount turbo technology and efficient tuning. Have to see to believe.
They calculated those claims going downhill at idle.
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Very cool, but to be getting 40MPG in the city their has to be more work done than a finely tuned FI setup in my opinion.
Alot goes into play on achieving a high MPG turbo engine. Size of turbo, spool time, injector size, tuning, ect...
I could see within the next 2-3 years the llt and lfx engines people will be pushing 400-500 wheel HP and still getting 35 City MPG.
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrming View Post
According to their website that's all it is... Highly efficient tuning. Sorry I'm going with snake oil...
Why do you have to be a buzz kill? What's next? The electric super charger doesn't double my horsepower? Sheesh!
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:58 PM   #16
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Alot goes into play on achieving a high MPG turbo engine. Size of turbo, spool time, injector size, tuning, ect...
I could see within the next 2-3 years the llt and lfx engines people will be pushing 400-500 wheel HP and still getting 35 City MPG.
But will they be making 40 mpg city?

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Old 08-17-2012, 11:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrming View Post
Trust me the are selling a lot of the v6 EBs especially in the F150. In fact earlier this year they had to add another shift at the plant that makes the v6 EB.

As to the OP... Adding FI won't really increase your MPG. What is does is give you increased performance without the MPG penalty of a bigger motor. That's the EcoBoost's tag line "The power of a V8 with the fuel efficiency of a V6"
Once my Orange Camaro is paid off, I'm going to buy a V6 EB F150, SuperCrew Fx2.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:04 AM   #18
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Why do you have to be a buzz kill? What's next? The electric super charger doesn't double my horsepower? Sheesh!
only doubles it if you install a Turbonator too! LOL!
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:47 AM   #19
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only doubles it if you install a Turbonator too! LOL!
You'll be glad to know that BPD just purchased 2 ECOBOOST Taurus patrol cars and 2 ECOBOOST Explorers all rigged with those new license plate readers that can read up to 1000 plates per second.
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Old 08-19-2012, 03:32 AM   #20
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I know this is the V6 section, but i just wanted to share that those numbers are possible. If I got 69 mph on the freeway, i get 33mpg on 91 octane, my power numbers are 803whp/937tq. If I drive at 80-85mph, i get 28-29mpg. I have twin turbos, before i had a maggie and was getting 16-17mpg depending on how fast i was going. Like Gretchen, I'm running rich right now too. It's getting tuned correctly this Wednesday, and I'm hoping for mid to high 30s for my mpg.

I can see a vette getting 40mpg, especially with the weight difference.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:31 AM   #21
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I know this is the V6 section, but i just wanted to share that those numbers are possible. If I got 69 mph on the freeway, i get 33mpg on 91 octane, my power numbers are 803whp/937tq. If I drive at 80-85mph, i get 28-29mpg. I have twin turbos, before i had a maggie and was getting 16-17mpg depending on how fast i was going. Like Gretchen, I'm running rich right now too. It's getting tuned correctly this Wednesday, and I'm hoping for mid to high 30s for my mpg.

I can see a vette getting 40mpg, especially with the weight difference.
I've heard of turbo'd cars seeing an increase in HP over stock but not with SC'ing. I have several friends with Vettes and they all report over 30 mpg going 80-85.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:58 AM   #22
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I've heard of turbo'd cars seeing an increase in HP over stock but not with SC'ing. I have several friends with Vettes and they all report over 30 mpg going 80-85.
did you perhaps mean increase in MPG? Because I'm pretty sure your new SC is going to increase your HP...
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by pyr0b0y View Post
I know this is the V6 section, but i just wanted to share that those numbers are possible. If I got 69 mph on the freeway, i get 33mpg on 91 octane, my power numbers are 803whp/937tq. If I drive at 80-85mph, i get 28-29mpg. I have twin turbos, before i had a maggie and was getting 16-17mpg depending on how fast i was going. Like Gretchen, I'm running rich right now too. It's getting tuned correctly this Wednesday, and I'm hoping for mid to high 30s for my mpg.

I can see a vette getting 40mpg, especially with the weight difference.
cool info there pyroboy. Is that your yellow SS with the ZL1 front? If so, I love it, and love the way the lights were done in the vents in the sides. Sweet looking wheels as well...what make are those?
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:00 PM   #24
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did you perhaps mean increase in MPG? Because I'm pretty sure your new SC is going to increase your HP...
umm yes that is what I meant.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:05 PM   #25
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cool info there pyroboy. Is that your yellow SS with the ZL1 front? If so, I love it, and love the way the lights were done in the vents in the sides. Sweet looking wheels as well...what make are those?
Yes, ZL1 front bumper with a set of 22" 360 Forged Concave Mesh Rims
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