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Old 01-03-2008, 06:04 PM   #1
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A word about pics - past/present/future...

I've always said that one of the best parts of owning a Camaro is the 'people' part........we are blessed to have so many people who feel so passionate about this great nameplate.

I've spent a lot of time on this (and many other) sites over the past dozen years because I felt that it was important to have the 'pulse' of the enthusiast. I also feel it's appropriate at times to give some hints (wink, wink) and answer questions.

Now -- all that said -- I can also tell you that --at times -- it's been a huge source of frustration as well.

We (that's you and me) need to remember that we (that's you and me) are not the 'end all' of what is and is not Camaro.

I have said in many meetings over the years that those of us within GM that work on Camaro/Firebird/Corvette are but the custodians of the brand.

We are not the brand.

We are the CUSTODIANS of the brand.

And I can tell you that it's something that every person who has worked on -- or is working on -- these brands understands that idea.........

I'd ask everyone on this site to keep the same thing in mind. Yes -- you may be an absolutely "dyed in the wool" enthusiast -- but please understand that while there are things you many not like -- we must keep ALL enthusiasts in mind as we design/engineer/build these wonderful cars.

You may not like, say, a seat fabric -- and that's fine -- but at the same time, 95% of our other enthusiasts may love it or find it acceptable...............in fact, it doesn't take you long on this site or any other site to realize that there is no way we -- or any other manufacturer -- will ever get 100% agreement on anything!

We must balance everything so that the enthusiast will love it -- but so will vast numbers of other people who may not be an enthusiast -- but take one look at a new Camaro and fall in love with it....and just HAVE to have one in their garage.......

Yes -- we'd love to give you a 900 horsepower Camaro that gets 35mpg and has 25 available exterior colors with 20 interior colors -- all for $19,995..........but that is about as realistic as me marrying Sandy Bullock or Daisy Fuentes or Christie Brinkley...........

The Camaro MUST be realistically priced so that most -- if not all -- of you can afford one.........

That's why I constantly ask people to keep a sense of 'decorum' as we (that's you and me) discuss the Camaro (and other cars...)

I'm sorry, but "That looks like *ss" is NOT appropriate for this site or any other ( correct me if I'm wrong....) ....because, you see -- when you type something like that, you insult many people...and while you may not like it, 80 percent of other enthusiasts may think it's great and like it.

Now....with that said -- I talked with John F. (Fbodfather 2.0) today after the interior pics leaked from the car carrier..........and we both believe it's important to talk about where these cars are in terms of production intent.

As you look at the uncammo'd cars (and yes, we will be posting some other pictures in the near future) -- and as you look at the unauthorized pictures of the interior........PLEASE KEEP THE FOLLOWING IN MIND:

1. None of these mules are anywhere near complete. Most parts are pre-production parts. If I had to assign a 'percentage' -- I'd say the cars are at 65% of production intent........

2. Some of the parts you see aren't even close to what you'll see on the production Camaro. For instance -- if you were to suddenly see a Camaro without the front bra in place -- you'd see some 'horrible' headlamps. There's a good reason for that...the production lamps are not ready - -and as a result - many of the mules have what I call....
" ..hey Joe - go run down to the local autoparts store and grab us a buncha headlamps and then go hot-glue 'em in place on those Camaro mules over there!!!!".........headlamps.............

..........see what I mean? So -- see something that doesn't look right? Hang in there -- it's likely to change!!!

3. Mules are usually painted white for a good reason -- I'll get into that one of these days -- but yes -- we know some of you don't want white -- but we aren't about to paint 'em every shade of the rainbow for testing.....patience, my friend -- patience!

4. Interior pictures are very misleading. As I said above, many of the parts are either pre-production -- 'off the shelf' parts to serve as placeholders -- or hard plastic and used only as a 'stand in.'
(Remember when I said a few weeks ago that the hips didn't disappear? Remember that a few of you didn't believe me? )

Keep something in mind today and tomorrow and next week and next month and next year.........................

........If one of us (John, Cheryl, myself, etc) say something -- we mean it. I plan to be on this and other sites for a long time to come. We don't intentionally lie. That's not our style.


Sooooooooo...............

let's keep the conversation going. Let's keep the faith..... (remember when I said that wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back in August of 2001 when I said "the Camaro WILL be back??".......

Please -- I'm begging you -- please hold off in final judgement until you see the finished product. If there's something you see that you don't like -- it's OK to discuss -- but let's hold off with the insults -- and let's also respect each others' opinions.

Finally -- you can be ASSURED that the final production Camaro is the most researched and most 'Camaro enthusiast injected' (sorry - couldn't quickly think of how to put that....) Camaro ever.......

.......and when the smoke clears sometime in 2008 -- I think 99% of you are gonna love it. To the other 1% -- sorry -- we tried!

(and NO, the production Camaro will not be at NAIAS -- Bumblebee, however, WILL be there ....and just mebbe wearing a new set of wheels to replace the plastic wheelcovers......)
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:19 PM   #2
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First of a huge, huge thank you to you Scott. I can not begin to fathom the immense amount of frustration that all us people on these enthusiast forums cause you, all of you, at times. But I've never waived in my faith about this car.

My personal love affair with this car started a year or so ago when I saw some pictures of the silver concept and instantly wondered "what is that?". That feeling of interest grew to love this last summer when I like many other saw Bumblebee in Transformers.

And after wanting to know more about this car I've read several forums, sites and just every bit of info I could get about this new car over the last six months or so, I've become more and more familiar with the message I'm getting from especially you, and that is dedication. It is passion and it is a feeling that you all want to get this right for us all. And for that I can not feel anything but admiration and great, great respect.

I mean all this enthusiasm has turned me, a guy who until this summer liked cars but didn't know much at all about them, to a guy who's got a Camaro desktop, screen saver, avatars at loads of forums and so on. But it also I feel it's made me grow a bit closer to my dad who used to be a big car enthusiast, and he is also very intrested in this car.


Now, recent developments. I'm not going to say much except that at least I like what I'm seeing taking shape with the interior. Not to mention the fact that it seems to be in my country (which I promise you have gotten me very excited, even though I have no chance of seeing it). And as for the mules being white....well, as I commented in another thread (and I'm not one who likes white on cars even though I know a lot do): "It's the prettiest white car I ever saw " And I stand by that. So far I have not been dissapointed and I don't expect I will be.




Keep up the good, no absouletly fantastic work! You've become sort of a hero to me and I haven't even met you.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:20 PM   #3
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Thanks for clearing a little bit of info up for all of the Camaro enthusiasts out there!

We really do appreciate your willingness to give us 5 minutes (...or so...) of your time to actually type out responses to our questions and read what we do and don't like on our Camaro.

I have all the confidence in the world that there is a great team of individuals putting the Camaro together for us, and I am sure they will look out for the best interests of every Camaro enthusiast out there (Or atleast the majority of them!)

Thanks again fbodfather!! I really respect what you do!!


Until next time!
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:33 PM   #4
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thanks for the insight!!!
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:40 PM   #5
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Sandy Bullock or Daisy Fuentes or Christie Brinkley...........
Set your sights higher man!!

I am appreciative of your time and effort. I just think everyone is extremely anxious and it can sometimes come out negatively.
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:10 PM   #6
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fbodfather,

Thanks for taking the time to address the leaked photo. I for one was thrilled to see it, I go bonkers just seeing the name Camaro on a piece of cheese! But seriously, you and every custodian of this great brand know there are just very impatient people in the world and you those you can't please at all. No matter what you do. I agree the 99% of us will love this car of the Gods. I have to say nice things about other cars? I can't! Mustangs make me

There's no way I could possibly think that what the pictures showed would be the exact production model, like the famous statue of David, it started off as a clump of crappy clay. I love this car as much as anyone on this board but people need to wait and not be so quick to judge.
Well anyway... thank you again from a loyal fan of the new Camaro.

Look... if I can get you a date with Daisy Fuentes, can you let me have the first Camaro off the line?

I can not wait for this car!!! But I have no choice, the year just started and I want it over so I can get in my Camaro!

GC
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emher View Post
First of a huge, huge thank you to you Scott. I can not begin to fathom the immense amount of frustration that all us people on these enthusiast forums cause you, all of you, at times. But I've never waived in my faith about this car.

My personal love affair with this car started a year or so ago when I saw some pictures of the silver concept and instantly wondered "what is that?". That feeling of interest grew to love this last summer when I like many other saw Bumblebee in Transformers.

And after wanting to know more about this car I've read several forums, sites and just every bit of info I could get about this new car over the last six months or so, I've become more and more familiar with the message I'm getting from especially you, and that is dedication. It is passion and it is a feeling that you all want to get this right for us all. And for that I can not feel anything but admiration and great, great respect.

I mean all this enthusiasm has turned me, a guy who until this summer liked cars but didn't know much at all about them, to a guy who's got a Camaro desktop, screen saver, avatars at loads of forums and so on. But it also I feel it's made me grow a bit closer to my dad who used to be a big car enthusiast, and he is also very intrested in this car.


Now, recent developments. I'm not going to say much except that at least I like what I'm seeing taking shape with the interior. Not to mention the fact that it seems to be in my country (which I promise you have gotten me very excited, even though I have no chance of seeing it). And as for the mules being white....well, as I commented in another thread (and I'm not one who likes white on cars even though I know a lot do): "It's the prettiest white car I ever saw " And I stand by that. So far I have not been dissapointed and I don't expect I will be.




Keep up the good, no absouletly fantastic work! You've become sort of a hero to me and I haven't even met you.


This post has pretty much been perfectly on point. I like to consider myself one who doesn't pass judgement on anything until final. Don't believe the hype. I absolutely love the concept, which was a finished concept from what I can tell. Just the fact that the mules are even close to the concept is giving me more than enough to keep waiting and drooling.

About the headlights Scott, I know the feeling. I'm sure everyone has had that experience at one point or another. That being said, the internet is the internet. You have 12 year olds going onto myspace and youtube, you have fanboys bashing anything not their brand, you have people that can't speak/type in proper english, nor do they care. I know that you guys are the custodian of the brand, but to be honest, some comments you just can't take seriously. Everyone can be a jerk because of internet anonymity. Some of us choose to, some of us choose to be normal people as well.

I hope everyone on these boards, if unsatisfied with the unfinished products, had the decency to provide constructive criticism as well as taking into account that the mules aren't finished. Everything's scheduled to change up until the night before the deadline when the cars roll off the line.

Again keep up the OUTSTANDING work bringing us long time camaro junkies and us just hooked with the new concept.

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Old 01-03-2008, 07:35 PM   #8
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you said it right fbod, patience!

this is my own personal opinion, but we as people in this day and age have come to want things here and now and this way, in almost all facets of life, including our cars.

This is true with the camaro too. when i started fallowing the camaro, i was one that wanted to know EVERYTHING. but i have come to think of this as a movie or game really. i think of all the info we get as forshadowing to some great climax. and that climax being the best car EVAR!!!!!

my two cents, lets nibble on all these tidbits of info, discuss, share what we want this dream car to be. and then when its here, wether is everything you wanted it to be or not, enjoy the ride.

thanks fbod for all your info.
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:45 PM   #9
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What else can be said regarding Scott's thoughts and comments but..... ....and THANK YOU FBODFATHER!
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:54 PM   #10
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...and to add my .02....

"I don't like this. I don't like that".

Folks, I may be repeating myself, heck!, I know I am, but remember this, THE CAMARO IS B.A.C.K.! I am, honest to God , soooo happy that the car which means so much to me is returning that "the little things" are inconsequential. It really is like the return of a long lost friend to me.

"Respect"

Remember, we're all enthusiasts of one of the greatest automobiles of all time. Some may be more "fanatical", more "passionate", but we're all part of a "family". Let's all remember that and respect each and everyone's feelings regarding the Camaro.

OK. I'll get off of my "soapbox" now.
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:57 PM   #11
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it's like that old saying "Good things come to those who wait"
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:05 PM   #12
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Fbodfather, we could not ask for a more diplomatic representative from GM. You have been for us a true leader as far as communicating with us about the Camaro. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that you are the best brand management Chevrolet could have when it comes to being true to what a Camaro is. I have all the faith in the world that we will get a phenomenal car with thanks to you and your open honest. We really appreciate it.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:38 PM   #13
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Scott, that earned you a third virgin. Haha. I am sooo thankful you're on this site. Really. Its too bad you can't post that on leftlanenews.com and all the other sites with this pic where people are making foolish judgements without knowing the facts. It breaks my heart, and I'm sure it breaks yours too. Considering this is just a prototype, what I saw today impressed the heck out of me. I want to tell you and the entire Camaro team "Thanks, for a job very well done." Recently on Inside Line on Edmunds.com they had a discussion on who might replace Bob Lutz at GM once he retires. People were wondering who could do as good of a job if not better than Bob at making sure products rule at GM and the consumers are cared for. I threw your name in there, and I meant it. I think it is just wonderful how you care enough to be a liaison to the fans out there, and to not only listen to us, but to actually dialogue with us. Sadly, that is remarkably rare today, and it makes a big difference. So once again, Thank You for being there for us.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mindz View Post
This post has pretty much been perfectly on point. I like to consider myself one who doesn't pass judgement on anything until final. Don't believe the hype. I absolutely love the concept, which was a finished concept from what I can tell. Just the fact that the mules are even close to the concept is giving me more than enough to keep waiting and drooling.

About the headlights Scott, I know the feeling. I'm sure everyone has had that experience at one point or another. That being said, the internet is the internet. You have 12 year olds going onto myspace and youtube, you have fanboys bashing anything not their brand, you have people that can't speak/type in proper english, nor do they care. I know that you guys are the custodian of the brand, but to be honest, some comments you just can't take seriously. Everyone can be a jerk because of internet anonymity. Some of us choose to, some of us choose to be normal people as well.

I hope everyone on these boards, if unsatisfied with the unfinished products, had the decency to provide constructive criticism as well as taking into account that the mules aren't finished. Everything's scheduled to change up until the night before the deadline when the cars roll off the line.

Again keep up the OUTSTANDING work bringing us long time camaro junkies and us just hooked with the new concept.

Couldn't agree more. It seems that behind the anonymity of the internet, people can just be idiots, jerks, and a bunch of other bad names I won't post here. In fact, I even notice myself often being more belligerent online than I would in real life. You have trolls, fanboys, and immature kids (even adult kids) on mommy and daddy's computer creating mischief. It can be so annoying, until you just step back and realize that these people don't really represent the views of the general population in real life. The internet is a great tool, but sadly it can also bring out the worst of our society.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:00 PM   #15
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Scott, that earned you a third virgin. Haha. I am sooo thankful you're on this site. Really. Its too bad you can't post that on leftlanenews.com and all the other sites with this pic where people are making foolish judgements without knowing the facts. It breaks my heart, and I'm sure it breaks yours too. Considering this is just a prototype, what I saw today impressed the heck out of me. I want to tell you and the entire Camaro team "Thanks, for a job very well done." Recently on Inside Line on Edmunds.com they had a discussion on who might replace Bob Lutz at GM once he retires. People were wondering who could do as good of a job if not better than Bob at making sure products rule at GM and the consumers are cared for. I threw your name in there, and I meant it. I think it is just wonderful how you care enough to be a liaison to the fans out there, and to not only listen to us, but to actually dialogue with us. Sadly, that is remarkably rare today, and it makes a big difference. So once again, Thank You for being there for us.

Thank you for the kind words.....it makes all the difference in the world after a longgggggg day at the office!!!

Please -- I invite you to 'cut and paste' my comments on any site you deem appropriate...... nothing worse than mis-information!

As to a replacement for Bob Lutz???? I'm so flattered I don't know what to say other than: No -- I don't believe I'm anywhere near capable of doing that job -- I know my limitations -- -but thank you for your vote of confidence!!! It means a lot to me!
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Emher View Post
First of a huge, huge thank you to you Scott. I can not begin to fathom the immense amount of frustration that all us people on these enthusiast forums cause you, all of you, at times. But I've never waived in my faith about this car.

My personal love affair with this car started a year or so ago when I saw some pictures of the silver concept and instantly wondered "what is that?". That feeling of interest grew to love this last summer when I like many other saw Bumblebee in Transformers.

And after wanting to know more about this car I've read several forums, sites and just every bit of info I could get about this new car over the last six months or so, I've become more and more familiar with the message I'm getting from especially you, and that is dedication. It is passion and it is a feeling that you all want to get this right for us all. And for that I can not feel anything but admiration and great, great respect.

I mean all this enthusiasm has turned me, a guy who until this summer liked cars but didn't know much at all about them, to a guy who's got a Camaro desktop, screen saver, avatars at loads of forums and so on. But it also I feel it's made me grow a bit closer to my dad who used to be a big car enthusiast, and he is also very intrested in this car.


Now, recent developments. I'm not going to say much except that at least I like what I'm seeing taking shape with the interior. Not to mention the fact that it seems to be in my country (which I promise you have gotten me very excited, even though I have no chance of seeing it). And as for the mules being white....well, as I commented in another thread (and I'm not one who likes white on cars even though I know a lot do): "It's the prettiest white car I ever saw " And I stand by that. So far I have not been dissapointed and I don't expect I will be.




Keep up the good, no absouletly fantastic work! You've become sort of a hero to me and I haven't even met you.
Happy New Year, Emher!!!

WOW -- your letter says so much as to what we hoped to accomplish - and that is to not only appeal to our traditional enthusiast -- but to capture people JUST LIKE YOURSELF!

By the way -- NEVER assume that you will not see the new Camaro in Sweden! We intend to offer this nameplate in many many countries -- and we know we have a VERY STRONG Camaro Club in Sweden! (I get their newsletters with regularity!)
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:05 PM   #17
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4. Interior pictures are very misleading. As I said above, many of the parts are either pre-production -- 'off the shelf' parts to serve as placeholders -- or hard plastic and used only as a 'stand in.'
I think this may be aimed (partially) at the antenna that people have complained about. It was pointed out that it looks exactly the same as on some other models, this is probably the reason.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:36 AM   #18
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True that. You know, when I went and got myself into the whole Camaro world in 2005, I've always owned Chevy cars and trucks beforehand, never owned anything else, except for my first car which was a Buick, still a GM though. I thought as I bought my Z28... man the cloth interior looks hideous! Even though there were a few more options provided for a better interior....I didn't care, I wanted what was under that hood. I'll say it now and I'll say it again. These interior spyshots don't phase me and I don't have much criticism towards them. I feel Chevy will make the right decision. I'm going to buy one anyways, as long as they come out with one that has enough power to kill ALMOST anything on the streets stock, which I TRUST they will do.
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:55 AM   #19
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Scott, I sincerely thank you for taking the time to enlighten and explain a few things for everyone here. I can't begin to explain how happy I am just to see the Camaro alive again. It will be here soon...and I'll be making room for mine in my garage! THANK YOU!!!
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:59 AM   #20
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Can we merge the twin threads perhaps?
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:49 AM   #21
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the interior pics where deffinatly rough. looks Like the guage cluster is about the only production part in it right nonw lol.

Reguardless of its current state of development. I think a lot of us still get butterflys even looking at a patch work parts interior.

This car sounds like its going to be the most enthusiest infused car GM has ever made.
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:15 AM   #22
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seriously considering what fbodfather says about chevy as a marke with custodians....................i cant say chevy rocks , but i MUST state chevy is really very well custodied ,damm THIS IS what i call CUSTOMER SERVICE .


seriously fbodfather if there would be a guy like you in every automotive brand all the cars would be perfect in their own style ............thanks for your time man :party0038:
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:33 AM   #23
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:45 AM   #24
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What a nice chap (how English is that?).

I've yet to find a car that has one of the people working on it, writing on forums I read. Someone that is happy to discuss what we've seen, what we've yet to see and to assure us that things are happening the way we want.

I am new to Camaros. A friend has a 3rd gen (although selling it) and they are rarely seen over here - but I just get the feeling, somehow, that I have to have a 5th gen... what a community!
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:01 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Happy New Year, Emher!!!

WOW -- your letter says so much as to what we hoped to accomplish - and that is to not only appeal to our traditional enthusiast -- but to capture people JUST LIKE YOURSELF!

By the way -- NEVER assume that you will not see the new Camaro in Sweden! We intend to offer this nameplate in many many countries -- and we know we have a VERY STRONG Camaro Club in Sweden! (I get their newsletters with regularity!)
Thanks and the same to you!

I know, I'm actually quite surprised that I've gotten this enthusiastic about this all myself. As said I wasn't that into cars before but really am now.

The remark about me not having a chance of seeing it was more about the reports of the trailer with the now photographed interior being driven up the polar circle trough Sweden.

I do not for second doubt that the Camaro will make an appearance in Sweden, in fact I've checked with a respected dealership and they confirmed that they are indeed importing it when it is released. I know that there is a BIG American car following here in Sweden. For many it stands for having something different then just your regular Volvo (and yes even Saab) and also for many it's a culture that's lived since the 50s with the imports of that time. The only real difference about the entusiasm about muscle cars around here and in the US I think is that around here muscle and American cars are so much more rare, I even get a bit exicted when I see a Charger and more so a Mustang because I know that these people are at least a bit on the same wave length as I.

I look forward to having my yellow Camaro with black stripes and fully joining my American car enthusiasts here in Sweden and taking part in many a crusing nights to come.
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