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Old 05-27-2009, 10:31 AM   #1
MrIcky

 
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75,000 2010 Prius orders...my philosophical quandry

So I just read that the 2010 Prius has 75k orders. The Insight had a huge number of preorders too.

So I HAD been thinking:
* that the press 'just doesn't get it',
* outside of the coastal cities, American's generally don't want these,
* hybrids overly 'complexify' the car and diesels are a better alternative,
* Priuses and Insights are just plain Fugly, and Toyotas in general just lack that certain something that makes cars fun...

Now I'm thinking that maybe it's me that doesn't get it. The Camaro had about 14k orders. Mullaly has openly stated that he is trying to beat Toyota by being more Toyota-like. And that really shows, except for the Mustang (which I like- please don't derail) I find Fords to be extraordinarily bland and lifeless right now. I drive a Fusion for work, my parents have a Free-whatever-crossover thingie, they share the same interior basics. And the Ford concept is working-they're having the most success of the domestics.

It seems that the general population has agreed with their pocketbooks that my view of cars is the exception, not the rule. Any moral support for me today or should I just suck it up with the rest of the sideshow freaks?
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:36 AM   #2
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Who said many of those 75k preorders weren't from California? The amount of Priuses in California is absurd. I could easily see them snapping up 50k just in that state.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:40 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by UCF w00t View Post
Who said many of those 75k preorders weren't from California? The amount of Priuses in California is absurd. I could easily see them snapping up 50k just in that state.
They didn't specify, I saw half a dozen or so on my way to work in Idaho. Idaho is definitely a refuge for those that have a more conservative mindset, but I'm seeing more and more of those damned priuses every day. And hybrids based on normal sedans are languishing in lots.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:53 AM   #4
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that's what i heard recently too. hybrid sales dropped early this year when gas went back under 2$. after a couple years he in Arizona, i don't see That many Prius's. I saw one last year that was pretty hilarious. it had every anti-Bush, far left bumer sticker you can imagine. Probably a dozen of them.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:06 AM   #5
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that's probably a misleading number since alot of those sales are probably to fleet sales, unlike the Camaro which had no fleet sales that counted as "pre-orders"

the Prius appeals to more people than the Camaro because:
1) it has more doors
2) its overhyped on the TV and other mass media
3) Prius owners dont know that the carbon footprint of the Prius is on par with that of a Hummer H2
4) Toyota is good at hiding the problems with the Prius
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:27 AM   #6
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or you guys just accept that people may possible enjoy other attributes of cars rather than horsepower and 1/4 mile times?
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:27 AM   #7
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Ever heard the saying "Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people."

Many years ago I contracted at Delco and worked on some hybrid prototypes. I found the complexity rather overwhelming with all the computer and sensor sytems to control the IC engine, AC induction motor with electronically controlled clutches on either side, the electronics to convert DC battery pack power to 3-phase AC for the motor, regenerative braking, etc., etc., etc. Especially considering how long it took, how many dealer visits, and lots of $$$$$ it took just to finally properly diagnose an intermittant electronics problem with my son's '92 Lumina. If you have problems with your hybrid get rid of it quick, warranty or not!
I find it especially humorous when I see that Apple laptop commercial where they're concerned about a single laptop battery ending up in landfills. What about the 300 pounds of batteries in your Prius?!?!?!?!

Now they're hoping to push plug-in hybrid/electric cars. What happens when all those people come home turn on the AC and plug their car into the power grid? Energy will be burned whether it's in the car or at the power station.

In my view I think on my own and am not so gullible and easy to brainwash as the masses are. You are not alone MrIcky!

Although driving a Prius does have the potential for being very exciting. Probably haven't heard about it since it doesn't fit the mass media's brainwashing agenda. Read this:http://www.seattleweekly.com/2009-04...erfect-prius/1
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS View Post
Ever heard the saying "Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people."

Many years ago I contracted at Delco and worked on some hybrid prototypes. I found the complexity rather overwhelming with all the computer and sensor sytems to control the IC engine, AC induction motor with electronically controlled clutches on either side, the electronics to convert DC battery pack power to 3-phase AC for the motor, regenerative braking, etc., etc., etc. Especially considering how long it took, how many dealer visits, and lots of $$$$$ it took just to finally properly diagnose an intermittant electronics problem with my son's '92 Lumina. If you have problems with your hybrid get rid of it quick, warranty or not!
I find it especially humorous when I see that Apple laptop commercial where they're concerned about a single laptop battery ending up in landfills. What about the 300 pounds of batteries in your Prius?!?!?!?!

Now they're hoping to push plug-in hybrid/electric cars. What happens when all those people come home turn on the AC and plug their car into the power grid? Energy will be burned whether it's in the car or at the power station.

In my view I think on my own and am not so gullible and easy to brainwash as the masses are. You are not alone MrIcky!

Although driving a Prius does have the potential for being very exciting. Probably haven't heard about it since it doesn't fit the mass media's brainwashing agenda. Read this:http://www.seattleweekly.com/2009-04...erfect-prius/1
I don't know how in the world you can complain about the amount of computer systems in a hybrid. Have you looked at what computers control in regular cars? A LOT. That's what happens as the world moves on.

I don't know why you'd complain about regenerative braking. Pretty neat stuff, I think.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:51 AM   #9
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If this was about the volt I have a feeling no one would be saying how dumb all 75k of those people are.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS View Post
Ever heard the saying "Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people."

Many years ago I contracted at Delco and worked on some hybrid prototypes. I found the complexity rather overwhelming with all the computer and sensor sytems to control the IC engine, AC induction motor with electronically controlled clutches on either side, the electronics to convert DC battery pack power to 3-phase AC for the motor, regenerative braking, etc., etc., etc. Especially considering how long it took, how many dealer visits, and lots of $$$$$ it took just to finally properly diagnose an intermittant electronics problem with my son's '92 Lumina. If you have problems with your hybrid get rid of it quick, warranty or not!
I find it especially humorous when I see that Apple laptop commercial where they're concerned about a single laptop battery ending up in landfills. What about the 300 pounds of batteries in your Prius?!?!?!?!

Now they're hoping to push plug-in hybrid/electric cars. What happens when all those people come home turn on the AC and plug their car into the power grid? Energy will be burned whether it's in the car or at the power station.

In my view I think on my own and am not so gullible and easy to brainwash as the masses are. You are not alone MrIcky!

Although driving a Prius does have the potential for being very exciting. Probably haven't heard about it since it doesn't fit the mass media's brainwashing agenda. Read this:http://www.seattleweekly.com/2009-04...erfect-prius/1

Sounds to me like your anti-technology, i would prescribe the amish country for you if you hate seeing things advance in today's world and they are too complicated for you. carefull now we dont want the computer to brainwash you
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:07 PM   #11
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fugliest cars ever

prius and insight = fail imo
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:14 PM   #12
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Anti-technology? Nothing of the sort. That's how a base V6 Camaro makes 304 HP and gets 29MPG.

It's pretty simple actually. Roughly four times more computers system complexity and sensors means four times the chances of failure, and possibly four times the number of dealer visits before an intermittant electronic problem can finally be properly diagnosed and fixed. All for a car that has the carbon footprint of a H2 and about the same MPG as a simple Jetta diesel. But you are entitled to your own opinion of course.

BTW, I helped build GM hybrid prototypes, helped hook up all their various computer systems, was there when they tried to get them all to communicate to each other, helped try to isolate all the electronic noise from the inverter from scrambling all the computers, etc. Trust me their electronics are far more numerous and complex than any new non-hybrid vehicle. But I guess I must know nothing about modern vehicle electronics systems.

P.S. There certainly are a lot of them around Indy. I notice them quite often when I'm trying to get around their slow-ass hypermiling rolling roadblocks. So maybe I'm just prejudiced!

Last edited by MLL67RSSS; 05-27-2009 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdjizm View Post
or you guys just accept that people may possible enjoy other attributes of cars rather than horsepower and 1/4 mile times?
Some people just don't care what they drive. But that's not who buys a Prius.

The Prius makes a statement. To me it says "I'm a smug douchebag who really doesn't do his research" but to the people that buy them it says "I'm saving the planet". Hybrids that look normal do not sell as well as hybrids that look like hybrids. People want to show off that they're being green. The South Park episode about hybrid smug was spot on.

The Prius is a fad that will pass one day, hopefully sooner rather than later.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:16 PM   #14
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I agree that there's more to cars than 1/4 miles. However I can walk onto just about any car lot and get a regular looking hybrid at discount, we're talking 75k orders so they'll be close to MSRP. The lots are littered with good practical cars right now. You can save enough money off MSRP to get a bigger car and be money ahead on gas for several years vs the Prius.

I HAD been thinking that you buy a Prius to either: make a statement and stand in solidarity with Cameron Diaz for the rights of the earth mother! or you're super-anal-frugal about saving gas (I know people like this-hypermilers, etc- it's almost an addiction). Now I'm thinking that Prius/Insights must be the new mainstream.

But with that many orders of Prius' and Insights and the last election cycle, etc (that's not political-I'm just saying that the current leadership does not necessarily reflect my way of thinking)...I am starting to feel like maybe I'm 'out of touch'. I'm not going so far as to say the mainstream is right, but I have to think that I'm no longer part of the mainstream.

I'm not even against normal looking hybrids- but Prius's are such a statement. Plus I think the 2.0 VW diesel is a better car then the 2009 Prius was (haven't been in a 2010). And why not diesel hybrids if automakers are serious- you'd certainly get better results for economy.
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