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Old 04-08-2015, 10:55 AM   #1
Mr. Wyndham
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If you've got Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tires...

AND...you've taken your car to a track day with both the Goodyears and the Michelin tires, I have two questions for you:

How did the tires do? And how did you do?

I've heard nothing but good things about the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires, and would like to put them on the car this summer. However, most people talking about them online haven't set foot on a road course - so all they're talking about it less road noise and how long they last for highway driving. I don't care about any of that.

I really don't have a problem with the OE Goodyears, but the allure of longer treadlife and better wet performance from the Michelin's is strong. However, I'm not willing to sacrifice on-track performance. Ferarri, Porche, Corvette, and Cadillac all use these tires are OE equipment, so they've got to be some kind of good, hell - the Z06 uses them!! But I'm hoping to hear from people here that use these cars the way they were meant to be used before plopping down $1400. Thanks all!
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:13 AM   #2
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I am right with you, I love the sticky goodyears, hate to buy every 3-5k miles. I track mine. I do not want to loose any grip at the limit.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
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I am right with you, I love the sticky goodyears, hate to buy every 3-5k miles. I track mine. I do not want to loose any grip at the limit.
And this...is a perfect example of why I'm stressing a little bit about switching:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...g_skidpad.html

I really, really like the balance and feel of this car. And I don't want to mess it up.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:41 AM   #4
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It really depends on which Michelin PSS you use...as you pointed out, Ferrari, Porsche & Corvette's use these tires...so you have to find the PSS that will work for your Camaro...I've found mine, but it takes some research to get the right one...Michelin PSS tires are not all created the same, even in the same size...
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:46 AM   #5
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It really depends on which Michelin PSS you use...as you pointed out, Ferrari, Porsche & Corvette's use these tires...so you have to find the PSS that will work for your Camaro...I've found mine, but it takes some research to get the right one...Michelin PSS tires are not all created the same, even in the same size...
Interesting. I knew they "customized" the tires...but I thought, like they did for the ZL1 using the Goodyear tires, it was minimal - compounds stayed the same.

Could you elaborate?
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:47 AM   #6
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There is another thread here somewhere where this was discussed. If I recall correctly, everyone had faster times with the Good Years, how much faster varied by the track/track type.

If you track your car, I'd suggest two sets of wheels/tires, which many people use anyway just to have "summer" and "winter" tires.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:49 AM   #7
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It really depends on which Michelin PSS you use...as you pointed out, Ferrari, Porsche & Corvette's use these tires...so you have to find the PSS that will work for your Camaro...I've found mine, but it takes some research to get the right one...Michelin PSS tires are not all created the same, even in the same size...
This.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimE View Post
There is another thread here somewhere where this was discussed. If I recall correctly, everyone had faster times with the Good Years, how much faster varied by the track/track type.

If you track your car, I'd suggest two sets of wheels/tires, which many people use anyway just to have "summer" and "winter" tires.
I'm less concerned with "fast times" as I am with the feel of the car. Oversteer vs understeer, turn in response, predictability in grip & braking.

I already have two sets of tires as I drive the car year 'round. Pirelli Scorpion Winter tires, and the Goodyears...it's time to replace the Goodyear's, and I don't want to make a $1400 mistake.

Have any idea what section that thread was in? I'll go look for it.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:09 PM   #9
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Kinda sounds like you already know what you want to do. Not sure there is a compelling reason you should switch, since tracking will surely mitigate any life expectancy in a tire as well as some of your other concerns.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:12 PM   #10
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Kinda sounds like you already know what you want to do. Not sure there is a compelling reason you should switch, since tracking will surely mitigate any life expectancy in a tire as well as some of your other concerns.
True...you caught me. But it always helps to sound off and see what you get back from people. I've done a lot of my own research, but so far - I have not heard from anyone with a 1LE and Pilot Super Sports who've taken it to a track.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:33 PM   #11
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Here's the thing tho, on the track (with our cars), your asking about something entirely different. for overall comfort and feel I've yet to see a bad review on the tires. So I'd be confident in buying them, which I'll probably do, over our current tires. Plus I heard it has more tread. Our tread sucks
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:36 PM   #12
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Here's the thing tho, on the track (with our cars), your asking about something entirely different.
I know - that's why I'm asking it.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:53 PM   #13
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I've had both tires on the track here. Both were at Thunderhill 5 mile, last year with some "medium worn" stock GY tires, and this year on some "new" PSS tires in the same size.

I can say this: Both tires provide excellent grip on the track.

Some observations with the PSS tires:

The grip seemed to get better throughout the day, and after pressure adjustments made until around 2-3pm, when the track temp got near it's peak. The grip then became slightly greasy. But I've also had this happen with the Goodyears, but to a lesser extent. Also, the PSS had more tread as they were "newer" so I expected this.

On braking and turn-in, I noticed quite a bit more tire noise (screetching) than on the Goodyears. But I've also changed my front brake compound to a race compound so I cannot say it is purely the tires fault. Never did I feel the car was upset more than it should have been and I was consistently out-braking cars such as GT3 and GT2 Porsches.
Edit: I meant to also say overall cornering grip was just as good as the Goodyears (when the track was not hot.)

I will say initial turn in and feel did not feel quite as crisp. I think as far as overall performance on the track, you'll find there are better choices than the PSS tires, which are really a extreme performance street tire. I plan to eventually get a second set of street wheels and use a track only tire in the future, possibly on Z/28 wheels.

Hope this helps.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:59 PM   #14
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I have not personally hit the road course track with my PSS's but I have done autoX with them. Compared to the goodyears (especially in the cooler weather when I was AutoXing) the PSS's were much better and much more predictable. AutoX doesn't give much time to heat the tires up since you are only running for ~60sec at a time and then waiting for 20min.

But from other reviews I've read where people hit the road courses more when you start running the 20-30 minute sessions with the PSS's then tend to get too hot and get a little greasy. Most say the stock Goodyear's perform better than the PSS's when track temps start getting higher. So I think the length of time you plan to be on the track at any given time as well as the track itself will play an important role in how the tires feel.

Sorry I don't have much personal experience to provide you but I have read a lot about the PSS's on this forum and my conclusion based on all of the impressions I've read is (assuming ambient temps at or above 60degF) are to use the stock GoodYears for road courses and PSS's for autoX. (assuming you are choosing between street tires and not R-compound track tires).
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:08 PM   #15
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new tires every 3-5k miles? Are we driving on roads made of cheese graters here?
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:18 PM   #16
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new tires every 3-5k miles? Are we driving on roads made of cheese graters here?
That does seem a bit excessive but my GY's were done by 8K. Probably should have been replaced sooner. They had two "track days" on them. Short Autocross type.

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Old 04-08-2015, 01:38 PM   #17
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new tires every 3-5k miles? Are we driving on roads made of cheese graters here?
YES, very fun and curvy hilly roads and pittrace. www.pittrace.com
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:15 PM   #18
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About that MotorTrend report.
The one parameter they didn't speak to was that the 1LE has symmetrical tire sizes and its suspension was setup for that. So putting the Z28 wheel tire setup could have caused a negative. Even if with the more and sticker Z28 tire wheel combo.
I put PSS tires on my 1LE after 12k miles. Hard for me to judge just the tires, had dealer install the Z28 suspension at the same time. All I can say is the overall combo is outstanding.
Getting to old to put on track anymore, but based on past track experience. the combo is pretty right on.
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:33 PM   #19
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About that MotorTrend report.
The one parameter they didn't speak to was that the 1LE has symmetrical tire sizes and its suspension was setup for that. So putting the Z28 wheel tire setup could have caused a negative. Even if with the more and sticker Z28 tire wheel combo.
Z/28 is square as well. Just 305 all around, vs 285.


Thanks for the input so far, guys.

I managed to get 12,000 miles out of the Goodyears, and that included two autocrosses, and a hard HPDE. I drive on them in the wet, and in cold weather (down to 33-34º). Never had any daily driving problems.

In my world...that'll take me through 2 summers.
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:46 PM   #20
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I tracked with PSS 285s, G:2 285s, and Hankook RS3s at 305/30/19 (with Z/28 suspension). Lap times were 2:02, 1.58.2, 1:57.2 in respective order.

PSS actually start with pretty good grip, on par with G:2s, but they quickly overheated despite mild weather at around 70 degrees. By 3rd or fourth lap, they got greasy and grip dropped significantly. I would not consider them appropriate for track duty. I have to say, I also tried them on my '13 Z06, and even though it took longer for them to get greasy (possibly due to lower curb weight), they eventually did about 10 minutes into sessions.

PSS warms up very fast at the street, and this also makes them great for autocross, at the expense of track capability. They just overheat in my experience.
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:51 PM   #21
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Pilot Super Sports SUCK! I will sell you the set in my garage that has 1 track day on them and no dd miles. NEVER AGAIN! I will only use the F1 G2's, as I have said many times, Craigslist is your friend for screaming tire deals. I have 20 F1 G2's and usually get them for less than $50 per tire. When it rains, the deals come out....
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:08 PM   #22
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Pilot Super Sports SUCK! I will sell you the set in my garage that has 1 track day on them and no dd miles. NEVER AGAIN! I will only use the F1 G2's, as I have said many times, Craigslist is your friend for screaming tire deals. I have 20 F1 G2's and usually get them for less than $50 per tire. When it rains, the deals come out....
You're probably in a little special place though being in California. I doubt there's tons of G2's floating around Craigslist here in Indiana!! :(
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Old 04-08-2015, 06:53 PM   #23
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new tires every 3-5k miles? Are we driving on roads made of cheese graters here?
Quote:
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That does seem a bit excessive but my GY's were done by 8K. Probably should have been replaced sooner. They had two "track days" on them. Short Autocross type.
Mine were almost done at 7k with no track days. Probably could've made it to 8 or 9k if driven in summer time only.
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Old 04-08-2015, 07:15 PM   #24
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My experience with the Michelin's are that they are only good for about 5 hot laps, then the grip goes away, they scream out loud, PSI jump and the car is pushy/loose. If I got 6 track days and total 5K miles, that was all I expected.

My experience with GY's they do not falloff lap to lap, I can get a solid 4 days of track days, there will be tread left, but the heat cycles leave them really scary in the wet/cold. I only expect to get 3 to 4 K miles total.

I buy up GY takes offs all year long from people up north that can't drive them in the off season. I buy a new complete set for about $650 with a few hundred miles, I have 3 sets in the shed for this year.

I know I give up DD usability in the cold here (NC) with GY, but love the GY on the track. Typical concession in what you are looking for.
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Old 04-08-2015, 07:31 PM   #25
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All good info here, but to me there's a reason our cars come with the Goodyears!
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