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Old 05-29-2009, 08:21 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt'sSS View Post
wow... just wow...

Do divorce your wife at the first sign of trouble, or to you talk to her & try to resolve things? Throw away your computer when it locks up? Don't confuse wanting to fix problems with not loving your car. Hell, most of us modify our cars even if there isn't a problem just because you think you might be able to make it better (even if it's just for your own taste).

Just because this may not be a problem for you, it is a genuine issue for some of us. Fortunately it is one that can be made better. I'd just hope that with such a minor overall issue GM may be able to resolve it for us. I'd rather not hack into my car the day I get it if I can avoid it, but I certainly will before I endanger myself, my passengers, and others on the road because I cant see out of the middle upper 1/2 of my windshield.

I don't have my car yet or I probably would have already torn into it. I've never once complained about the visibility of the car otherwise, which for most people is a bigger issue judging from that thread. I'm perfectly happy to live with that compromise of looks vs. visibility. But there's no reason the Mirror couldn't be more adjustable.
For those people who don't like to read all the posts in a thread, yours is one they really need to read.

I know I'm going to have to deal with this issue when my Camaro arrives...because it IS a safety issue! I can learn to deal with the rearward visibility problems, however forward visibility shouldn't require very many compromises. I would hope GM would address this, and offer some sort of modification to the mirror's design/position for those of us who's forward vision is impaired. Just getting it to raise up a little bit would make a HUGE improvement.

As I've stated in another thread about this issue, I am not an automotive engineer, nor am I an automotive designer. Having said that, I can't believe this is the first time this potential problem has been brought up. I would hope GM looks into this and provides a solution for those of us who REALLY need one. I believe they would be off doing it now while it's still early, instead of waiting until someone gets into a bad accident and points to the poor forward visibility due to "a mirror" as it's cause. Once some injury attorney gets involved, $$$...well, NOBODY wants that!!!
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:55 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D View Post
Have you looked behind the mirror? It is all black, the glass is covered in it behind the mirror. So basically you need a new mirror and a custom made windshield.
Did you look at the picture? The black behind the mirror that everyone seems so caught up on is a complete non issue. It only covers about the top 1/3 of the mirror behind it. Even if you could adjust the mirror all the way to the roof, you still wouldn't have the black behind the mirror showing below it. It's not a factor at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDGn63
Was that pict taken after you removed the wire cover and gained that slight 1/8"? That's too bad... From the pict on page 2 from your other thread it looks like the mirror would actually be able to go up somewhat behind where the head liner comes down. I certainly would not mind sacrificing not seeing the top of the plastic trim of the mirror for some more lower visibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black5thgen View Post
My suggestion would be to park the car and take the bus. I read what you posted and agree with none of it.
Thank you so much, very helpful... God forbid you ever have a problem with your car, you might have to bury it. I hope some day when you need help you get quality feedback like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John VS View Post
Wow, that does look bad. That mirror needs to be higher and thinner top to bottom. It's taking up way too much visibility out the front. I'm 6'2" so I'm concerned about this.

Prediction: We'll see a new, smaller mirror in the 2011 Camaro.
That's pretty much what I expect as well. I've seen other pictures with a mirror that isn't so beefy at the bottom, that must be what Tag was talking about, but even then it would still be taking up more than 1/2 of the middle of the windshield, but that's better than the 2/3rds in this pict :(



For those that are being helpful, thanks for understanding.

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Old 05-29-2009, 09:08 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D View Post
Have you looked behind the mirror? It is all black, the glass is covered in it behind the mirror. So basically you need a new mirror and a custom made windshield.
did you even look at the picture?

the window blackout only comes down the top 1/3rd of the mirror and is above my LOS....
the bottom 2/3rds of the mirror is near useless and in the way.

the onstar buttons alone take up 1" at the bottom of the mirror... GM could have easily put them on the sides of the mirror (or on the console for that matter) if they REALLY addressed the "mirror issue."
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Why oh Why?
Windshield=10" vertical
mirror= 3 7/8" (that's almost 4") vertical
that means that the mirror is 38.75% the size of the vertical windshield...
it sure seems like the ratio could be better... just sayin....

our collective MIRROR patch:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24612
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:24 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
First and foremost, the Camaro is a sports car. It is a remarkable machine. It's function is more along the lines of performance than luxury, making it someone difficult in certain categories. To get that sleek appearance, GM sacrificed a lot of visibility. Like many sports cars, there is room for customization. If you have a problem with a component, GM won't help you. They've already built your car. Seek help in the aftermarket. Find a custom shop and buy a replacement mirror. It really isn't that hard. Have your OnStar button wired to a separate button panel that you can install anywhere in the car. It's really not that hard. It isn't even that expensive. If you can afford a 2010 Camaro, gas, insurance, and all the mods we've been discussing on these boards, then you can afford to replace your mirror and rewire your OnStar button. It isn't that hard. Show us pictures when you're done, and maybe document the process using an instructional, or "how-to," thread to do it.
I certainly agree. and GM DID sacrafice a lot of visibility and i can live with all of it but the truck mirror which is just not necessary. i could litterally cut the bottom 2/3 off and it would be perfect. (for me)
I just thought if someone else had a solution they could help me and i wouldnt need to reinvent the wheel, or mirror.
or if GM, dealer, etc could chime in and say.... "hey, since i work with GM products every day you might try a solstice mirror, or a G8 mirror, etc."

this car is EXTREMELY AWESOME.

my car does not have the sunroof so i have thoughts of moving the onstar stuff where there is no sunroof button....
i just always like to check and see if somebody has a better idea first. i call it planning.

i've already vented about my dislike... im just looking for answers here.

thanks for ALL of the constructive input.
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Why oh Why?
Windshield=10" vertical
mirror= 3 7/8" (that's almost 4") vertical
that means that the mirror is 38.75% the size of the vertical windshield...
it sure seems like the ratio could be better... just sayin....

our collective MIRROR patch:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24612
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:27 AM   #105
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I'm definitely having that mirror removed..I could care less about onstar..
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:34 AM   #106
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i agree with you totally. i sat in a car for the first time yesterday and that was what i noticed right away. i didnt adjust the mirrors or seats and my head was against the roof i am six foot one. so i know the seat can be lowered and the mirror adjusted somewhat but that is a big concern i have right now. its not going to stop me from getting this car but i am definately going to look into another mirror as well.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:49 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt'sSS View Post
Was that pict taken after you removed the wire cover and gained that slight 1/8"? That's too bad... From the pict on page 2 from your other thread it looks like the mirror would actually be able to go up somewhat behind where the head liner comes down. I certainly would not mind sacrificing not seeing the top of the plastic trim of the mirror for some more lower visibility.
yup the plastic is removed but i will need to modify the mount arm to get it any higher... a let down in itself.

this really calls for a new mirror and moving onstar.

thanks all for the support!
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Why oh Why?
Windshield=10" vertical
mirror= 3 7/8" (that's almost 4") vertical
that means that the mirror is 38.75% the size of the vertical windshield...
it sure seems like the ratio could be better... just sayin....

our collective MIRROR patch:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24612
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:57 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDGn63 View Post
yup the plastic is removed but i will need to modify the mount arm to get it any higher... a let down in itself.

this really calls for a new mirror and moving onstar.

thanks all for the support!
Keep us all informed because in a month or two, I will be doing the same thing.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:57 AM   #109
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also from the pic i posted... did anybody see the white S-10 in the parking lot to the right that was pulling onto the street? (heck, you cant even see the outlet to the street)
the s-10 would not be a danger in the pictured scenario but it does illustrate my point.

and no, i'm not making this sh@t up.
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Why oh Why?
Windshield=10" vertical
mirror= 3 7/8" (that's almost 4") vertical
that means that the mirror is 38.75% the size of the vertical windshield...
it sure seems like the ratio could be better... just sayin....

our collective MIRROR patch:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24612
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:59 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by rolnslo View Post
Is it really the mirror that is causing your blind spot or is it the blacked out section of the windshield behind it?




You could also try removing the plastic wire cover between the headliner and the mirror and then relocating the metal mounting plate for the mirror higher up on the windshield.

That mirror is different! Where are these pics from??

I honestly think the "best" solution is to go to a chevy dealer and walk around the lot until you find a car with a much smaller onstar mirror. If that doesnt work, call GM, get a tech on the phone and tell him you want a smaller onstar mirror, and you want specs for the last couple years... Make GM work to fix the problem, they built the car!

While some people arent having the problem, there are enough that are brining it up that are... so it's an issue that GM should address. The back window viewing area (mind you I only sat in a camaro for a few minutes) was small enough that you dont need that monstorous mirror!

There are open "blanks" in the overhead console of non sunroof guys, maybe they can be used to hold the onstar buttons and then you can buy the smallest but useful size mirror you could find. That might be the easiest solution... hmmmmm if my camaro was already here, I could start looking into that... I'd just need a wiring diagram for the onstar mirror and overhead console. Hurry up with the service manual GM!
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:03 AM   #111
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Well if you're just looking for a mirror to buy, there's lots of options there.

Gentex is the biggest brand of OnStar mirror manufacturers I found info on. It sounds like they supply several of the auto manufacturers, but they do not sell their own product. Mitocorp is their authorized vendor it sounds like, and they have a few options, including one with a built in screen for a rear view camera (not that I think you would need that in a Camaro, but it might be nice for a Suburban).

Here's a link to their OnStar page.

http://www.mitocorp.com/auto-dimming...rs-onstar.html

There are also several other websites you can find these kind of product from new (and thus hopefully returnable if it does not work or help).

http://autodax.com/catalog/pdetail.php?prdid=300
http://shop.autodimmingmirrors.com/products-full.asp
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_au...=onstar+mirror

I'm personally hoping I don't get the thicker bottomed mirror, not sure what makes that difference though... If I do, I'll probably try to modify it if I can, but if that looks to be too much of a pain I'll probably pick up something used from eBay to hack on.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/onstar%20..._dmd=1&_sop=12


I'm not sure just a different mirror will resolve it if the adjustment is already maxed for height. The slightly thinner mirror bottom will help, but I don't think it would be enough.
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:32 AM   #112
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I'm not sure if this is possible with the way the mirror is attached to the arm but...can you bend the mirror down, spin it around on the arm (might need to disconnect/reconnect the wires), and push it back up so the Onstar buttons on now at the top instead?

Seems to me that arm attachment is high-mounted on the back of the mirror and you could gain room if the mirror could be flipped over and make the arm low-mounted instead.

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Old 05-29-2009, 10:48 AM   #113
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Can people who own other late model GM cars measure their onstar mirrors?? Impala, Monte Carlo, Saturn Ion, Saturn Aura... These are the common ones on ebay right now.

There's a ton of Onstar mirrors on Ebay right now. Seems like we could find a suitable OEM replacement.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:05 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolnslo View Post
I'm not sure if this is possible with the way the mirror is attached to the arm but...can you bend the mirror down, spin it around on the arm (might need to disconnect/reconnect the wires), and push it back up so the Onstar buttons on now at the top instead?

Seems to me that arm attachment is high-mounted on the back of the mirror and you could gain room if the mirror could be flipped over and make the arm low-mounted instead.


DANG! i took that picture and i didnt notice that! THANKS!
i "looked" at flipping it (from the front) but didnt try it cause from the front i didnt think it would help.

Thanks! i WILL try it.
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Why oh Why?
Windshield=10" vertical
mirror= 3 7/8" (that's almost 4") vertical
that means that the mirror is 38.75% the size of the vertical windshield...
it sure seems like the ratio could be better... just sayin....

our collective MIRROR patch:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24612
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:06 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by JDBeck23 View Post
That mirror is different! Where are these pics from??

I honestly think the "best" solution is to go to a chevy dealer and walk around the lot until you find a car with a much smaller onstar mirror. If that doesnt work, call GM, get a tech on the phone and tell him you want a smaller onstar mirror, and you want specs for the last couple years... Make GM work to fix the problem, they built the car!

While some people arent having the problem, there are enough that are brining it up that are... so it's an issue that GM should address. The back window viewing area (mind you I only sat in a camaro for a few minutes) was small enough that you dont need that monstorous mirror!

There are open "blanks" in the overhead console of non sunroof guys, maybe they can be used to hold the onstar buttons and then you can buy the smallest but useful size mirror you could find. That might be the easiest solution... hmmmmm if my camaro was already here, I could start looking into that... I'd just need a wiring diagram for the onstar mirror and overhead console. Hurry up with the service manual GM!

top pic is from 1SS bottom is from 2SS
they are shown in the other 2 threads i listed.

youve got good ideas.
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Why oh Why?
Windshield=10" vertical
mirror= 3 7/8" (that's almost 4") vertical
that means that the mirror is 38.75% the size of the vertical windshield...
it sure seems like the ratio could be better... just sayin....

our collective MIRROR patch:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24612
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:08 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDBeck23 View Post
Can people who own other late model GM cars measure their onstar mirrors?? Impala, Monte Carlo, Saturn Ion, Saturn Aura... These are the common ones on ebay right now.

There's a ton of Onstar mirrors on Ebay right now. Seems like we could find a suitable OEM replacement.
AMEN!

i am hoping to find out at the dealer if nothing else...
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Why oh Why?
Windshield=10" vertical
mirror= 3 7/8" (that's almost 4") vertical
that means that the mirror is 38.75% the size of the vertical windshield...
it sure seems like the ratio could be better... just sayin....

our collective MIRROR patch:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24612
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:10 AM   #117
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did that work as mentioned a couple posts up? if so what exactly did you do. so the mirrors are different from the 1ss to the 2ss?
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:21 AM   #118
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did that work as mentioned a couple posts up? if so what exactly did you do. so the mirrors are different from the 1ss to the 2ss?
i'll let you know after lunch.

1SS and 2SS mirrors appear to be different in at least my and one other members cars.
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Why oh Why?
Windshield=10" vertical
mirror= 3 7/8" (that's almost 4") vertical
that means that the mirror is 38.75% the size of the vertical windshield...
it sure seems like the ratio could be better... just sayin....

our collective MIRROR patch:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24612
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:38 AM   #119
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hmmm making me wonder if we could have our dealers order us a 1ss mirror and have it installed?
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:44 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDGn63 View Post
did you even look at the picture?

the window blackout only comes down the top 1/3rd of the mirror and is above my LOS....
the bottom 2/3rds of the mirror is near useless and in the way.

the onstar buttons alone take up 1" at the bottom of the mirror... GM could have easily put them on the sides of the mirror (or on the console for that matter) if they REALLY addressed the "mirror issue."
may i ask how tall are you .not to be funny just wondering .
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:47 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolnslo View Post
I'm not sure if this is possible with the way the mirror is attached to the arm but...can you bend the mirror down, spin it around on the arm (might need to disconnect/reconnect the wires), and push it back up so the Onstar buttons on now at the top instead?

Seems to me that arm attachment is high-mounted on the back of the mirror and you could gain room if the mirror could be flipped over and make the arm low-mounted instead.

I think we both forgot about that now that he's removed the plastic wire cover. It was dismissed before because the top was already hitting that. Good catch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDBeck23 View Post
Can people who own other late model GM cars measure their onstar mirrors?? Impala, Monte Carlo, Saturn Ion, Saturn Aura... These are the common ones on ebay right now.

There's a ton of Onstar mirrors on Ebay right now. Seems like we could find a suitable OEM replacement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LDGn63 View Post
DANG! i took that picture and i didnt notice that! THANKS!
i "looked" at flipping it (from the front) but didnt try it cause from the front i didnt think it would help.

Thanks! i WILL try it.
Let us know how it goes! Looking forward to more iPwn picts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDGn63 View Post
top pic is from 1SS bottom is from 2SS
they are shown in the other 2 threads i listed.

youve got good ideas.
Well, it doesn't help you any, but I guess I'm glad I got the 1SS mirror! I'm sure you could find someone with a 1SS that does not have the problem (I'd guess someone shorter than us, or likes driving laying down ) that would be happy to trade you to gain auto dim.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:51 AM   #122
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why 2 different mirrors though that doesnt make sense to me
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:55 AM   #123
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i am six foot one havent driven the new camaro yet but sat in one yesterday and that stood out like a big problem to me.
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1100 (4/30/09) 2000 (5/5/09) 3000 (5/5/09)
3100 (6/2/09) 3300 (6/2/09) 3400 (6/04/09)
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4000 Available to ship (6/16/09)
4200 Shipped (6/19/09)
4300 Intermediate Delivery(6/20/09)
5000 Delivered to the dealer(6/22/09)
6000 Delivered to the customer (6/27/09)
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:55 AM   #124
Matt'sSS
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Drives: C5 Vert->CGM SS RS M6->SRT8 Magnum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbauer14085RS/SS2010 View Post
why 2 different mirrors though that doesnt make sense to me
Auto-dimming...
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:09 PM   #125
VenomZ302
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Drives: 2010 Aqua Blue RS/SS M6
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Hmmmm... I unfortunately don't have any pictures of the mirror of the 2LT I test drove, but I don't recall it being a problem for me and I'm 6' tall. I can't imagine that it didn't have the auto-dimming mirror, but maybe it did, since it seemed like it might have been a bit less than production, with its cloth door panels. Definitely had the leather and C&C package, though...

Maybe if I see another on a lot at some point, I'll check it out again.
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