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Old 08-31-2012, 11:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
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I will hopefully be getting a 2013 2SS/RS m6 camaro soon. I personally love the look of airlift on the 5th gen camaros but would really enjoy a car that handles well.

My question would be could a pedderized or bagged SS be able to compete with a 1LE around the track? It would be a daily driver so I would perfer as smooth of a ride as possible but yet be able to take a turn fast without fear of loosing control. What do you think would be the best way to go? I dont know much about suspension but for the money is the 1LE package worth it when you can get air or pedders for around the same cost plus the killer looks?

Thanks in Advance!
Bury it. We ran the PUSA Camaro at Gingerman years ago. Some refer to it as an obscure track. It isn't. It gets a lot of use from Detroit based automobile companies and was the choice of the Camaro TEAM for media hot laps with the 1LE. Since the fall of 2009 there hasn't been a single Camaro to run faster at Gingerman than the PUSA Camaro. Not one. We are running the Pro-Tourcing / OPTIMA Challenge events with the Lingenfelter L/28 and Raymond's Performance Camaro. We were 1 second slower than Lou Gilloti's highly modified ZR1 at Eagles Canyon. We put down the fastest lap of the day at Road America besting a well driven $450,000 Porsche that spent all day chasing the L/28. At Gingerman we we had the fastest AC and and were behind a killer race car like vette on the road course.

A 1LE is a great version of the SS that will be much better Pedderised. You have a money back guarantee on it.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:11 PM   #27
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That sounds quite exspensive. Now being able to customize the 2013 online it would be roughly the same price for a 1SS/RS/1LE as a 2SS/RS. I would hate to loose the leather and HUD tho , I think overall the 1LE would be a lot smarter choice considering if I really want leather or HUD I could always add later.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:16 PM   #28
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Flawless operation and control are never expensive. They are PRICELESS. Anyone can make a Vette fast. Beating a modified Vette with a Camaro is a statement. We do it all the time. I haven't spoken to a single Pedders client that had just run their fastest 1/4 mile or passed every car in their HPDE that thought their Pedders parts were expensive. Not one.
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:41 PM   #29
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L/28 vs ZL-1

WOW 1 course run and a whopping 4 seconds better than a ZL-1 Woooooooooooowwwwww,. Now imagine the Nurburging.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:01 PM   #30
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I just talked to Chase over at Apex, and you can put together a great suspension set up for a lot less money than you may think. For 2k you can have solid subframe bushings, lowering springs, sway bars, diff bushings, trailing arms, and toe rods. The likely hood that the 1LE could out handle a car set up like that is slim to none. Heck, I would buy the SSX parts before the 1LE. The 2SS would be my first choice, I almost bought a 1SS to save some $$, but I'm really glad I didn't. Leather, HUD, and the Gauge pack are sweet. IMO, the 1LE is not as good as a suspenion as you can buy aftermarket.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:12 PM   #31
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And you're forgetting about the wheel bearings, gears, wheels/tires, revised transmission, etc.

The likelihood you could achieve those same things and benefits aftermarket for that price is slim to none. The 1LE would still outhandle your "package" because of the wheels/tires alone. Obviously it can be improved upon with aftermarket parts but the fundamental package is still a great buy for the true road race enthusiast.
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:20 PM   #32
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The 1LE is a lot more than suspension.

You get the close ratio mm6, 3.91 gear, extra fuel pickups, stronger axles and hubs, trans cooler, electric steering, shifter, and more. If you add everything up it is impossible to get everything for anywhere close to $3500. I am actually thinking about selling my SS for a 1LE. Look at it this way, with the 1LE you are paying $3,500 for the ZL1 wheels and tires, all the other options are free.
How about if you include the depreciation in your current car?
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:54 PM   #33
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The wheels and gears are the only thing swaying me towards the 1LE, I know I could surpass the 1LE with aftermarket parts but for the price it seems like a great deal. A stock 1LE should beat a stock SS in the quarter mile correct?
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:14 PM   #34
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How about if you include the depreciation in your current car?
This is a valid point. And the 1LE will not be any faster than an SS at the strip, still a driver's race. The 1LE will only be faster at the road course. Secondly, the higher final drive ration will also decrease fuel economy. The axles will still probably be weak for performance mods. Gears are like $600, so the gears and suspension puts you at 2600, not 3500 yet.
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:20 PM   #35
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A stock 1LE should beat a stock SS in the quarter mile correct?
1LE may be slower...

stiffer suspension and possibly an extra shift before the finish line...

should get a jump on a highway pull but not really pull away.
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #36
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1LE may be slower...

stiffer suspension and possibly an extra shift before the finish line...

should get a jump on a highway pull but not really pull away.
Higgs and I finally agree on something
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:30 PM   #37
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It is true, you can get a suspension for less money than Pedders. It is also true you get what you pay for. Has anyone noticed that there is no other suspension company running a 5th Gen Street Car for the OPTIMA Challenge but Pedders and Pedders has TWO cars on track? Or that the ONLY two times a Pedders prepared car has been on a road course with brand-x we walked away from them by more than 5 seconds the first time and 8 seconds the second time? Or that Pedders prepared Camaros are beating Corvettes at the OPTIMA events? It isn't just the Lingenfelter L/28. Bruce Raymond's Camaro took 3rd place the first time he entered an event. When Chevrolet invited Pedders to the Milford Proving Grounds to work with them installing what would become the Pace Car Package for the INDY and NASCAR series on track Pace Cars they paid for the parts. Then there are the special Camaro featured in the 2011 SEMA brochures along with the Cruze and Sonic special builds that are all on Pedders.



Brembo, Hurst and Pedders. I'll take that all day long. Long story sort, you can buy suspension for less and follow Pedders or you can buy Pedders and lead the field.

Lingenfelter L/28 Camaro wins Optima Faceoff at Road America

Here are the official OPTIMA at Road America results:

Wilwood Disc Brakes Speed Stop Challenge
3 - #36 1966 Chevelle - Tom Farrington - 20.502
2 - #53 2010 LPE Camaro - Danny Popp - 20.453
1 - #43 2005 Porsche Carrera GT - Darren Draves - 20.394

RideTech Street Challenge Autocross
3 - #50 1933 Ford Roadster - Bret Voelkel - 41.585
2 - #53 2010 LPE Camaro - Danny Popp - 40.557
1 - #51 1967 Camaro - Britt Marloff - 40.310

BFGoodrich Hot Lap Challenge
3 - #51 1967 Camaro - Britt Marloff - 1:44.336
2 - #43 2005 Porsche Carrera - Darren Draves - 1:39.977
1 - #53 2010 LPE Camaro - Danny Popp - 1:39.412

OPTIMA Faceoff at Road America presented by Royal Purple (overall)
3 - #43 2005 Porsche Carrera - Darren Draves - 62 pts.
2 - #51 1967 Camaro - Britt Marloff - 68 pts.
Winner - #53 2010 LPE Camaro - Danny Popp - 74 pts.

Lingenfelter Performance Engineering's impressive L/28 Camaro is the overall winner of the OPTIMA(r) Faceoff at Road America, posting the event's fastest time in the BFGoodrich Hot Lap Challenge of 1:39.412 at the hands of driver Danny Popp. The modified 2010 Camaro L28 is used to develop and test Lingenfelter and partner company components. It is powered by a Lingenfelter 427 CID/7.0L crate engine.

Running the short course at Road America, the Camaro reached speeds in excess of 148 MPH and measured 1.35 Gs in the corners.

"As the only 5th Gen Camaro to win an OPTIMA event, we rose to the challenge and showed Road America spectators how our 681-horsepower Camaro can truly perform at the track," said Ken Lingenfelter, owner of Lingenfelter Performance Engineering. (photo by McGaffin Digital Photography) [7/11/2012]

Bill Goldberg Pod Cast

This



beat this.



Do we provide special support to our friends at LPE?



So as not to appear unfair, we always invite all the brand-x suspension companies to come out and join us at the OPTIMA Challenge Events. As we used to say at the Dog n Suds money talks and walks. Time to stop talking and come out and beat us.
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Old 09-02-2012, 03:18 PM   #38
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Well said.
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
And you're forgetting about the wheel bearings, gears, wheels/tires, revised transmission, etc.

The likelihood you could achieve those same things and benefits aftermarket for that price is slim to none. The 1LE would still outhandle your "package" because of the wheels/tires alone. Obviously it can be improved upon with aftermarket parts but the fundamental package is still a great buy for the true road race enthusiast.
The 1LE is a great bargain for what you get. But to say the 1LE will still outhandle a modded SS is wrong. Aside from the transmission and gears I have a setup on my SS that would likely outperform the stock 1LE in handling. The ONLY thing I need to change is to the newer sway bar setup and those aftermarket setups are still better than even the ZL1 stiffness.

Bigger axles, hubs are nice to have but not going to make you go faster or handle better. How much better the 3.93 will help on the track is still to be seen. Yeah, you'll take off great from a stop but I run in 3rd & 4th on the track. Is that trans/gear setup going to improve my times by a second or two, or fifteen seconds a lap?

If I could start over I would definitely buy a 1LE over an SS since I track. But I would probably do the same mods I did to my SS minus the wheels since the 1LE has the wider tires. Sounds like GM did a nice job on the 1LE, but there's still plenty of room for improvement.
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:57 PM   #40
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  • FE6 suspension package which includes thicker front and rear sway bars, a strut tower brace, toe links, rear shock mounts, monotube dampers
  • Upgraded half-shafts and wheel bearings sourced from the ZL1
  • 20-inch wheels wrapped with Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar
  • 3.91:1 rear-axle ratio
  • Close-ratio v
  • Tremec six-speed manual transmission with transmission cooler and high-flow fuel pump.

These are solid upgrades to the SS. The 3.91 with require an extra shift on some straights, but the extra shift is more than offset by the overall performance. Couple that with a close ration gear box and the 1LE is golden on track. I say this because we have run multiple variations of the gear and trannies since 2009. Give Chevrolet

The absence of a differential cooler

Improved half-shaft and bearings get

The wheels and tires are a plus from the SS but far from the ideal setup due to crash test standards and the range of ride height acceptable with out re-validating the crash testing

FE6 is another huge plus, but are not adjustable in height or damping

Four pot fronts instead of ZL1 six pots

The 1LE is a great car for the occasional HPDE. For the hardcore road course owner you get more than enough good stuff to go with your after market and OEM based upgrades.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:10 PM   #41
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The 1LE is a great bargain for what you get. But to say the 1LE will still outhandle a modded SS is wrong. Aside from the transmission and gears I have a setup on my SS that would likely outperform the stock 1LE in handling. The ONLY thing I need to change is to the newer sway bar setup and those aftermarket setups are still better than even the ZL1 stiffness.

Bigger axles, hubs are nice to have but not going to make you go faster or handle better. How much better the 3.93 will help on the track is still to be seen. Yeah, you'll take off great from a stop but I run in 3rd & 4th on the track. Is that trans/gear setup going to improve my times by a second or two, or fifteen seconds a lap?

If I could start over I would definitely buy a 1LE over an SS since I track. But I would probably do the same mods I did to my SS minus the wheels since the 1LE has the wider tires. Sounds like GM did a nice job on the 1LE, but there's still plenty of room for improvement.
I didn't say any modded SS, I said the mods the other person listed. Also there's more to be said than ultimate speed, there's durability and repeatability to consider which the cooler and bearings address. It's the difference between having a car made for on ramps and a car made for the track.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:18 PM   #42
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Is the 1LE reasonable for a DD? Important to consider.
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:23 PM   #43
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Is the 1LE reasonable for a DD? Important to consider.
Yes.
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:51 PM   #44
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I didn't say any modded SS, I said the mods the other person listed. Also there's more to be said than ultimate speed, there's durability and repeatability to consider which the cooler and bearings address. It's the difference between having a car made for on ramps and a car made for the track.
No you didn't, but he did and you made the statement "your package." So what was his package being installed on then?

Who said anything about "ultimate" speed? My comments were about handling. I pretty much know the difference between on ramps and tracking. My car has spent more miles this summer on the track than on the street.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:56 AM   #45
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But you're in TX!

Roads here in New England suck!
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:32 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
  • FE6 suspension package which includes thicker front and rear sway bars, a strut tower brace, toe links, rear shock mounts, monotube dampers
  • Upgraded half-shafts and wheel bearings sourced from the ZL1
  • 20-inch wheels wrapped with Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar
  • 3.91:1 rear-axle ratio
  • Close-ratio v
  • Tremec six-speed manual transmission with transmission cooler and high-flow fuel pump.

These are solid upgrades to the SS. The 3.91 with require an extra shift on some straights, but the extra shift is more than offset by the overall performance. Couple that with a close ration gear box and the 1LE is golden on track. I say this because we have run multiple variations of the gear and trannies since 2009. Give Chevrolet

The absence of a differential cooler

Improved half-shaft and bearings get

The wheels and tires are a plus from the SS but far from the ideal setup due to crash test standards and the range of ride height acceptable with out re-validating the crash testing

FE6 is another huge plus, but are not adjustable in height or damping

Four pot fronts instead of ZL1 six pots

The 1LE is a great car for the occasional HPDE. For the hardcore road course owner you get more than enough good stuff to go with your after market and OEM based upgrades.
I wonder if we would be able to transplant these parts onto our SS non 1LEs. Get the 1LE diff and have a diff cooler setup made and installed, this may be possible. I may be wrong but isn't hotter diff temps going to bring on torque management sooner than having the diff cooled with the cooler in place.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:37 AM   #47
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But you're in TX!

Roads here in New England suck!
Blackswan I live in Mass as well and my car now is probably stiffer than the 1LE. It's NY and NJ that will have you wanting an extra A$#$#S.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:56 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Hotchkis View Post
Your other option to get 1LE levels of handling for your SS would be to look at our 2010+ Camaro Race Pack Stage 3 Total Vehicle System (TVS). This kit includes Sport Coil Springs, Front Sway Bar, Adjustable Rear Sway Bar, Front and Rear Heavy Duty Adjustable End Links, Strut Tower Brace, and Chassis Brace. These parts are designed to compliment each other and give you a matched suspension setup that works right out of the box. And even better, all of this engineering is available for under $2500.



Check out what Autoblog and Road and Track have to say about how the handling of a Hotchkis-equipped Camaro compares to stock:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/12/h...r-than-before/

http://www.hotchkis.net/_uploaded_fi...5thgen_zz1.pdf
Hotchkis guys no offense but I wouldn't substitute any FE3 rear bar setup for even the stock ZL-1 bar. I had your rear 35mm bar and the ZL-1 rear 28 is superior sorry. You need to upgrade your rear bar.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:01 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
1LE may be slower...

stiffer suspension and possibly an extra shift before the finish line...

should get a jump on a highway pull but not really pull away.
I'd say quicker E.T with lower trap speed =1LE.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:23 AM   #50
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PORSCHE CARERRA GT SPECS. Max speed 334 kph (207.08 mph) 0 - 100 kph 3.5 s 0 - 180 kph 7.6 s 0 - 200 kph 9.9 s 0 - 250 kph 17.2 s 0 - 300 kph 34.2 s 0 - 100 mph 6.5 s 1000 m 19.4 s @ 266 kph 1/4 mile 11.0 s 0 - 100 - 0 mph 11.3 s
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