Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Vitesse Motorsports
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Specific Models / Packages > Camaro 1LE Forum

Camaro 1LE Forum Camaro 1LE Package releated discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-03-2012, 01:26 AM   #1
762ss
 
Drives: Buick Verano, Dodge Durango 5.7
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3
1LE zip

Hi there. My first post.

Test driven the SS many times, manual tranny. Even though I come from a devout Chevy family (with a couple of dodges too), I tried the Mustang GT a couple of times, and the boss once (dealer wont let anyone take out the 2013 gt500). First time ever driving a Mustang. The Fords all seem so zippy. They are fast. I almost talked myself into getting one with ford track pack and recaro seats. Fords issues with the MT82 gave me a moment to clear my head. It's kind of an important part of the car to engineer and build well.

So... How much better zip will the 1le get over the SS. The 1le gearing and suspension mods, I pray, will give life to the car The camaro SS was fast, but lacked a zippy feeling. Almost too smooth the SS felt. Hope the 1LE has a bit more jerk and zip. At its price point, it is too hard to pass up one. Gotta get one. I know it is better than a GT with track pack. Can't wait for my 1le.
762ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 07:48 AM   #2
grocerygetter
instigator
 
grocerygetter's Avatar
 
Drives: Black on black 2009 C6
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 72034
Posts: 3,961
Well...I know gearing on a ss makes a huge difference. Other than that...the 1le isn't in gen pop yet.
__________________
-John S.

2014 GMC CC Z71, 2009 C6 vette (57x/53x at the wheel and less than 3300lbs)
2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

Thanks to:
Tony@ dv8motoring
rhino@ Gwatney Chevrolet/GPI Jacksonville AR
TCAudio in Benton AR
grocerygetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 08:22 AM   #3
L99CAMA2011


 
L99CAMA2011's Avatar
 
Drives: One of the baddest handling Gen 5s
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Masachusetts
Posts: 2,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by 762ss View Post
Hi there. My first post.

Test driven the SS many times, manual tranny. Even though I come from a devout Chevy family (with a couple of dodges too), I tried the Mustang GT a couple of times, and the boss once (dealer wont let anyone take out the 2013 gt500). First time ever driving a Mustang. The Fords all seem so zippy. They are fast. I almost talked myself into getting one with ford track pack and recaro seats. Fords issues with the MT82 gave me a moment to clear my head. It's kind of an important part of the car to engineer and build well.

So... How much better zip will the 1le get over the SS. The 1le gearing and suspension mods, I pray, will give life to the car The camaro SS was fast, but lacked a zippy feeling. Almost too smooth the SS felt. Hope the 1LE has a bit more jerk and zip. At its price point, it is too hard to pass up one. Gotta get one. I know it is better than a GT with track pack. Can't wait for my 1le.
Weird, every time I test drove the GTs they always felt slow and left me with that , how can these cars be that fast feeling. Have you driven a current model SS. My SS feels a lot peppier than even the 2011 I drove a year ago. Even felt better than my 2011 L99.
L99CAMA2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 09:26 AM   #4
Mgizzle
 
Mgizzle's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Camaro 1LE 1SS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by 762ss View Post
Hi there. My first post.

Test driven the SS many times, manual tranny. Even though I come from a devout Chevy family (with a couple of dodges too), I tried the Mustang GT a couple of times, and the boss once (dealer wont let anyone take out the 2013 gt500). First time ever driving a Mustang. The Fords all seem so zippy. They are fast. I almost talked myself into getting one with ford track pack and recaro seats. Fords issues with the MT82 gave me a moment to clear my head. It's kind of an important part of the car to engineer and build well.

So... How much better zip will the 1le get over the SS. The 1le gearing and suspension mods, I pray, will give life to the car The camaro SS was fast, but lacked a zippy feeling. Almost too smooth the SS felt. Hope the 1LE has a bit more jerk and zip. At its price point, it is too hard to pass up one. Gotta get one. I know it is better than a GT with track pack. Can't wait for my 1le.
I am not sure I agree. I drove the 5.0's too and was left struggling to understand where the speed was. Had no torque down low and only gained some steam up high. Felt a bit European instead of muscle car. In comparison to the SS, the torque was there even low, felt more muscle car like.

As far as "zippy" I am not sure if the 1LE will feel "zippy". It is ~3900 lbs and even the stang is heavy. EVO's and STi's are what I would call "zippy" but not these cars. The camaro will be very smooth but just based on driving a ZL1, it will turn in quickly and feel like a significantly lighter car. I really liked the zl1 transmission too hence am not worried about the zl1.

In the end, if you liked the mustang track pack, the 1LE will blow you away, I am sure. For that kind of money good luck buying anything better. Oh, and there is no replacement for displacement
Mgizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 10:48 AM   #5
1977and2010
Tampa Gulf Coast Family
 
1977and2010's Avatar
 
Drives: 1977 Z28, 2SSRS 2010 M6
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dunedin FL
Posts: 803
Not sure about the trans gearing with the 3.91 in the 1LE. But adding those gears to my 10 SS made a nice bump in its zip. Between that my cam and all the suspension mods my car feels sooo much lighter than it did stock. I'd really like to drive a 1LE to feel the difference between the two.
__________________
1977and2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 11:05 AM   #6
bannonm

 
bannonm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS M6 VR
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,384
Quote:
Originally Posted by 762ss View Post
The Fords all seem so zippy. They are fast. I almost talked myself into getting one with ford track pack and recaro seats. Fords issues with the MT82 gave me a moment to clear my head. It's kind of an important part of the car to engineer and build well.
Here's zippy for you. The 2013 Mustang listed here is a GT with the track pack. Loved the seats and overall a nice looking car, but...

__________________
bannonm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 12:38 PM   #7
SUKXOST
Do you even lift, bro?
 
SUKXOST's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1LE Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sumter, SC
Posts: 3,067
Chevy FTW. I'll let you know what I think in a few weeks :P The only Camaro I've ever test driven was a ZL575 SC'd version from SLP so I wont have a comparison to a stock SS but I'll give my impressions nonetheless :P
__________________
My 1LE (645WHP/597WTQ) build/journal Thread:
1st ever 1LE COTW http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255461
SUKXOST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:49 PM   #8
Bad@ssCamaro
Rogers' Rocks :-)
 
Bad@ssCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 1SS/1LE
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Western MA
Posts: 5,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by bannonm View Post
Here's zippy for you. The 2013 Mustang listed here is a GT with the track pack. Loved the seats and overall a nice looking car, but...

What are those times for? and why is an '11 SS faster than a '13 ZL1?
__________________
Former Camaros: (gone but not forgotten)
1976 LT Black/Black 305 V8 (Bone Stock)
1976 LT Black/White 305 V8 (Bone Stock) except for Cragar chrome rims (yep - #2)
1985 Z-28 Black/Black 305 L69 M5(Bone Stock) I know: slow

Current Camaro:
2015 CRT 1SS/1LE RS/Recaro's/NPP/Nav/Rear vision pkg./BA speaker upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
Bad@ssCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 05:40 PM   #9
PYROLYSIS
Remember the Charleston 9
 
PYROLYSIS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 KME PREDATOR, 2014 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Summerv1LE SC
Posts: 4,712
Chevrolet quotes the 1LE as having the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as the SS. Dragoneye's review said it did feel quicker.
__________________
BRING BACK THE B4C POLICE CAMARO!
2002 V-6 5 speed rally red (current camaro) Also driven:1992 Z-28 305 auto Red w/ black stripes (anniversary), 2001 V-6 auto light pewter metallic,1991 RS V-6 auto Black
PYROLYSIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 08:31 PM   #10
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,312
The Mustang feels zippier (word?) than the Camaro due to its less rigid structure. The same reason the GT500 is harder to control than a ZL1. In the Camaros they feel under-powered due to the fact that the chassis is so much more capable. Whereas the Mustangs feel over-powered due to their less rigid chassis design. The upside is one can take a Camaro chassis farther power-wise with more control.
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 09:20 PM   #11
b4z

 
Drives: '06 Pontiac GTO M6, '09 V8 SRX RWD
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,217
Mustangs also,tend to have more advantageous gearing, especially 1st gear. It makes up for a lack of low end tq.
In the past that is how ford has kept their acceleration competitive.
BMW has been the same way in the past. But now offers deep over drives.
I hear people say that around town a mustang feels zipper than a Camaro or a GTO.
Give those two rear gearing to equal the Mustangs overall gearing and the Mustang will no longer feel zippy, because it has less tq and less tq multiplication.
b4z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 02:58 AM   #12
762ss
 
Drives: Buick Verano, Dodge Durango 5.7
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3
I appreciate the feedback and discussion. I know the Camaro is super fast. The speedo indicates that. I was just wondering how ford made their 2013 302's feel so quick. That is why I said "feel", because the SS's I drove indicated the same speed as ford, but didn't feel like they had snap. And snap is also what I hear a good portion of the ford trannies do...

I didn't realize the camaro rigidity (and IRS?) could make such a fast car feel so smooth that I perceived it as slower (and I know it is not slower).

The ZL1 release and 1LE plans (in May or June) are what got me to try all these cars out. Ford dealer is adjacent to Chevy, so I figure "what the heck." 1LE has a lot to offer for the price. That's the car I want. I asked my dealer sales manager, who's been there 20+ years, about the 1LE camaro. He was the only salesman that knew what I was asking for (this is a few months back). He also remembered my 1995 impala SS.

Ford is also crazy; pricing up Boss models 10-15k over sticker (market price adjustment). A plain street Boss (not LS) is listed at 60K nearby. Nuts. You could get a ZL1 and absolutely crush their cars for that money.
762ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 02:29 PM   #13
b4z

 
Drives: '06 Pontiac GTO M6, '09 V8 SRX RWD
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,217
This is why Boss 302 owners are taking off the intake manifold and putting the regular Coyote one in. Lack of tq at the low end.
b4z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 01:42 AM   #14
Slickcas
 
Drives: 12' 2SS/RS LS3 IBM
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Paris. ILL
Posts: 266
Part of the zippy feeling is the gearing but also there is what is called tip-in. Tip-in it where OEMs make the 1st 25% of the gas pedel act more like 50%. They do it a lot on 4cy cars it tricks people in to thinking the car has more power then it has. I do not think the Camaro has any but the I think the mustang does. Not saying the mustang needs it but it makes the 5.0 my friend has feel jumpy not near as smooth as my SS.
Slickcas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2012, 02:45 PM   #15
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,312
How does that differ when each car is floored?
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 10:24 AM   #16
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 2,686
Once you remove the mechanical connection between the skinny pedal and the throttle plate, you never really know what's happening at the throttle plate. Especially while you're actually in the process of moving the pedal, whether that be to some part-throttle position or to "WOT". The electronically controlled throttle plate moves not in direct response to your foot movement, but to what the ECM is programmed to think you want from your pedal motion (and it can consider how fast you move your foot as well as how far in order to do this). There's a difference, and any time lag or lead will show up in your perception of "zip".

There is a specific procedure for calibrating the throttle position sensor to the PCM in the Mustang so that the PCM at least "knows" where the endpoints of pedal travel are. Otherwise, the throttle plate motion could be either more aggressive or tamer than intended, and you'd tend to subconsciously interpret that in terms of "zippiness".

I would imagine that the above ability to "reset" the throttle is a necessary capability for any car fitted with electronic throttle due to the electrical and/or mechanical tolerances present in the throttle position sensors themselves.


Norm

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 09-06-2012 at 10:55 AM.
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 10:27 AM   #17
1LEE
 
1LEE's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Cobalt SS/SC
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
Chevrolet quotes the 1LE as having the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as the SS. Dragoneye's review said it did feel quicker.
I saw that to, but I bet it will be a tic quicker to 60 & through the 1/4 mile. The extra grip from the wider tires, along with gearing should help.

Although, we all know where the 1LE is designed to shine
__________________
1LEE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012, 07:10 PM   #18
762ss
 
Drives: Buick Verano, Dodge Durango 5.7
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3
Thank you for posting about tip in and the control algorithm between the throttle pedal and real throttle. I believe both are correct. I also think that the Mustang has a different power band. Like I said, the camaro speedometer was indicating the same high speeds on an identicle route aggressive test drive.

I think that the 1le is the best value of any pony car out there right now. I also think the car is better built. The Ford tranny is enough reason to avoid that car.

My dealer said he anticipates no delays in getting one. I'm placing a order on a 1ss 1le in January.
762ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012, 08:27 PM   #19
JimE


 
JimE's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 2,297
Considering the acceleration and speed of the Camaro and Mustang are similar, it's obviously just how it "feels". One car "feeling" faster than another, means nothing when they are both pulling a 13 second 1/4 mile.

Everyones perception of speed is different from vehicle to vehicle. So your perception of speed is irrelevant. It's a matter of which car suits your wants/needs or you simply like more. Your perceptions can and will change.

Besides, if the Mustang felt faster, but the Camaro was say 1/2 second faster in the 1/4 mile, would you buy the Mustang simply because it felt faster? No, I didn't think so. Not that speed should even factor into the equation.
__________________
Perm-a-grin in place.....
JimE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012, 08:55 PM   #20
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,312
I get your argument, however personal perception "is" everything, right or wrong. But again, yes perceptions can change through experience and education.
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 10:06 AM   #21
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 10 Legacy 2.5GT, ...
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 2,686
Jim - The exact ultimate performance numbers only matter when you're actually racing. This holds true for measures of cornering performance as well as for acceleration.

When you're driving briskly but aren't quite racing, in cars of generally similar performance you'll just lean a little harder into the one with ultimately lower performance.

The rest of the time you'll drive according to the feedback you're getting. IOW, how it "feels" or perhaps sounds as opposed to the performance that you're extracting from it. This is where satisfaction on a daily basis comes from.


My Mustang is supposedly a mid-13 second car. I have had a 1995 Mazda 626 (V6, 5MT) since it was brand-new that might on a good day manage to get into the 15's. When I'm driving the Mazda, it really doesn't occur to me that I left a car with much higher performance sitting in the driveway. It's fun enough and rewarding enough to not suffer from comparison by the numbers.

I think that's what the OP is hoping for with the 1LE "zip", that it'll meet his definition of "fun to drive" in at least the matter of tip-in response.


Norm
Norm Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 10:32 AM   #22
newb

 
newb's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 1LE
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: hawaii
Posts: 1,090
Also, my 4 year old thinks my Sierra Denali is faster than my wife's V6 accord. Why? Because my truck has flow masters. It sounds like I'm doing 100 when I barely hit 50. Her accord is dead quiet.

All of the senses work together to trick the mind. Ever been to disneyland/world? They have rides that take you for miles and never move more than a few feet. To your senses you flew all over. The mustang plays more on the senses than a stock SS. Just like people swear their car is faster with cat back exhaust when in reality you can't feel the tiny bit of Hp gained.
__________________
Delivered 21 Jan 2013

newb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2012, 06:38 PM   #23
L99CAMA2011


 
L99CAMA2011's Avatar
 
Drives: One of the baddest handling Gen 5s
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Masachusetts
Posts: 2,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUKXOST View Post
Chevy FTW. I'll let you know what I think in a few weeks :P The only Camaro I've ever test driven was a ZL575 SC'd version from SLP so I wont have a comparison to a stock SS but I'll give my impressions nonetheless :P
ZL575 SC'd version from SLP ,Very good car. Fast wasn't it.
L99CAMA2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2012, 12:41 AM   #24
JimE


 
JimE's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 2,297
I understand both sides of the debate. I've had cars that felt "fast" or sporty even if they weren't. A '76 MG Midget for instance. It was just a fun to drive car. Everyone has their own reasons for a buying car. If the OP buys a Mustang because it "feels" sportier, so be it.

I'm a muscle car guy. I'm not particular to brand or model, so I'm not trying to push the Camaro as the "best" choice. Hell, I've considered getting a Mustang simply because I can get one for much less money. Anyway, some cars feel fast, but are slow. Others are slow, but feel fast. My point was just that your perceptions can change with experience in a car. But if that "feel" or "perception" is the primary factor in your car purchasing decision, then get whatever "feels" sportier.
__________________
Perm-a-grin in place.....
JimE is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.