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Old 09-18-2012, 09:37 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by FresnoStateDogs View Post


Skip to the second car.
I stopped watching when he said, "Cars that are more dangerous than heart disease."

Heart disease kills almost 1 in 4 Americans per year. That is ~616,000 people per year.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:07 AM   #52
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Hopefully there tests are valid as they don't even know how many valves the zl1 has.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:23 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by A-little-perspective View Post
I stopped watching when he said, "Cars that are more dangerous than heart disease."

Heart disease kills almost 1 in 4 Americans per year. That is ~616,000 people per year.
There is a flaw in your statement.... there are more then three hundred million Americans. If it killed almost one in four every year that would be seventy five million each year roughly.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:58 PM   #54
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There is a flaw in your statement.... there are more then three hundred million Americans. If it killed almost one in four every year that would be seventy five million each year roughly.
You're right, I should have rephrased it. Heart disease accounts for nearly 1 out of 4 deaths in America. http://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

The point is that none of those cars are remotely close to being as dangerous as heart disease. Maybe as dangerous as Varicella (chickenpox) in adults, but not heart disease.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:11 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by A-little-perspective View Post
You're right, I should have rephrased it. Heart disease accounts for nearly 1 out of 4 deaths in America. http://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

The point is that none of those cars are remotely close to being as dangerous as heart disease. Maybe as dangerous as Varicella (chickenpox) in adults, but not heart disease.
I have one word for ya'; hyperbole
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:13 PM   #56
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Drive a Porsche Cayman for a couple days and then get into either of these cars and you might fully understand what they mean by "driver's car". But, all things considered, I would rather own either of these than ANY other country's best.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:21 PM   #57
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Lets put a 300lb weight in the ford and give it a 3.42 gear while we're at it. It can even keep the extra cam and valves(nightmare bt the way), there would be NO CONTEST!
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:23 PM   #58
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Whoa, how did my reply end up in this thread? wierd
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:02 PM   #59
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Lets put a 300lb weight in the ford and give it a 3.42 gear while we're at it. It can even keep the extra cam and valves(nightmare bt the way), there would be NO CONTEST!
With all due respect, that is about the weakest argument I have ever seen posted.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:46 PM   #60
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wow is this getting old or what?
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:24 PM   #61
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very subjective article no real concrete support on each vehicles performance. I could care less on what vehicle felt better, its all about performance numbers. At least the ZL1 driver will be comfortable when they are beat by m3's & GT500's.
I agree that subjectivity needs to be taken out of the actual vehicle performance tests/comparisons and stated separately.

Just give us the cold hard objective facts/times/statistics etc.

Then the writer can add his/her subjective feelings/impressions at the end of the article.

I still want the ZL1 to get more factory HP to at least 650 HP.

Don't you ?
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:50 PM   #62
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It's simple folks, we all know with a Pan Hard Bar set up, the Shelby is Shifting on it's frame on hard corners with uneven lifts and bumps. No surprise.

SVT needs to add an X brace, a watts link, brake duct cooling and wider tires to the Shelby to make it more nimble, compliant and stable in the corners. Erik
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:43 PM   #63
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It's simple folks, we all know with a Pan Hard Bar set up, the Shelby is Shifting on it's frame on hard corners with uneven lifts and bumps. No surprise.

SVT needs to add an X brace, a watts link, brake duct cooling and wider tires to the Shelby to make it more nimble, compliant and stable in the corners. Erik
Or just rush the redesign.
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:56 PM   #64
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I've realed my car in from 80-90 mph and it stops plenty fine.

Anyone who takes it out and hot laps it w/o a fluid change probably deserves to boil their brakes and end up bassackwards in the grass.

And the lines about drifting with the 'nannies' on... complete BS

I can't even get sideways around a turn around town with sport mod on before it reels me back in...with everything in the most restrictive mode it's even more controlled.
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...if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the GT500 retains it's title of the highest hp, worst performing car in the world.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:11 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by JFWJR179 View Post
I agree that subjectivity needs to be taken out of the actual vehicle performance tests/comparisons and stated separately.

Just give us the cold hard objective facts/times/statistics etc.

Then the writer can add his/her subjective feelings/impressions at the end of the article.

I still want the ZL1 to get more factory HP to at least 650 HP.

Don't you ?
I think its fine as is.......
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:57 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by JFWJR179 View Post
I agree that subjectivity needs to be taken out of the actual vehicle performance tests/comparisons and stated separately.
Most places, the objective stuff is already compiled into a data panel, with the subjectives already separated out into the text.

, I'd say that your request is already met.


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Old 09-20-2012, 10:02 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black_camaro_SS View Post
very subjective article no real concrete support on each vehicles performance. I could care less on what vehicle felt better, its all about performance numbers. At least the ZL1 driver will be comfortable when they are beat by m3's & GT500's.

Some of the stuff that falls under "what vehicle felt better" is part of what lets you actually make the performance numbers themselves. The car that doesn't feel quite as good to you is the one that either discourages you from using all of its performance or makes it harder to consistently do so.

"Subjectives" are the movie, objective data is really just a few frames taken from it for poster purposes.


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Old 09-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #68
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This makes me want a GT500 even more. That's what makes me like cars. Being scared is part of the excitement.
Yup. I have my DD's for safety. I like them. I love cars that make me feel very much alive by allowing me to determine my own level of comfort.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:23 PM   #69
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More back-page whining.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:56 PM   #70
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As Winding Road and that video are free to critically review and comment on the cars, so are they subject to critical review & commentary with respect to their opinions.


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Old 09-20-2012, 04:23 PM   #71
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As Winding Road and that video are free to critically review and comment on the cars, so are they subject to critical review & commentary with respect to their opinions.


Norm
Have you driven either of these cars?
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:07 AM   #72
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↑↑↑ For the record, no. But I wasn't reviewing the cars.

It isn't necessary to have driven any version of the Mustang or Camaro at all in order to have a valid opinion about the video. Just because skinhead strongly implies having throttle (self?) control skill levels appropriate to driving nothing hotter than entry-level econoboxes and base model family sedans doesn't mean that we are all so severely limited. Keep in mind that I'm not evaluating his overall driving talent, just his apparent all-or-nothing approach to the throttle.

If I drove like that, my avatar picture would be showing my car's taillights at the camera at that point on course and would be a good classroom illustration of why you don't treat the throttle like a light switch.


Nor is it necessary to have driven either car in order to comment on the mix of hard stats and specs vs the subjectives in Winding Road's presentation. Data is easy enough to understand, while getting a good grip on the subjectives requires having had (and paid attention during) generally similar experiences.



(On edit, Friday was a good day to get away from everything and go fishing.)


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Last edited by Norm Peterson; 09-23-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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