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Old 09-22-2012, 12:26 PM   #1
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Torque Management

I was just wondering if there is an intrusive torque management algorithm in the factory tuning of this car. Even with it's weight, it just seems stock numbers are a little on the low side. If so, are tuners tuning it out??? I do remember when the C6's came out that this was an issue...at least a discussion. It was so much of an issue on the previous generation M5's that the Car and Driver folks pretty much threw the car by the wayside in disgust. Just curious???
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:55 PM   #2
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I've been suspecting that since the mystery "QC hold" was lifted. I've suspected for a long time that it was due to a drivetrain durability issue that was "fixed" by programming in excessive torque management.

Chevy promised a low/sub 12 second car, but in reality, most production cars are only running mid 12's......at best. Sure, you're getting a VERY few freaks at "fast" tracks that are delivering the low/sub 12 second runs, but th0se times definitely aren't the norm.

I'm kind of surprised that no one has bothered to compare the % throttle input to % of actual throttle body opening.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:12 PM   #3
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I think torque management would pull timing and not modulate throttle....Just a guess on my part. I would also assume that there is definitely TM mostly to protect from wheel hop...but how aggressive is it???
Thanks for the reply and the bump. I was about to repost in the modification sections. I would like to hear from a tuner....
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:56 PM   #4
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Not sure about timing and fuel, but I remember when the 5th Gen first came out and GM High Tech performance put one on a dyno, they remarked as to the difference between the throttle body % open and gas pedal input immediately after shifts. I forget the exact numbers, but with the throttle at 100%, the throttle body would only be around 25-30% and then climb to the full 100%.....it was quick, but noticeable.

I'll post a link when I find the article.
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Last edited by Ron66Vette&10SS; 09-23-2012 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS View Post
Not sure about timing and fuel, but I remember when the 5th Gen first came out and GM High Tech performance put one on a dyno, they remarked as to the difference between the throttle body % open and gas pedal input immediately after shifts. I forget the exact numbers, but with the throttle at 100%, the throttle body would only be around 25-30% and then climb to the full 100%.....it was quick, but noticeable.

I'll post a link when I find the article.
I've always noticed my right foot being very connected to the engine output in a holley carb car compared to the EFI drive by wire cars of today,
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:53 AM   #6
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The $64,000 question--can it be tuned out?
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:06 AM   #7
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I would certainly think so.

Elsewhere, many aftermarket tunes and even the OE tune actually provide throttle opening rates that are too aggressive for certain driving situations and need to be dialed back a bit.


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Old 09-24-2012, 07:15 AM   #8
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The $64,000 question--can it be tuned out?

Of course it can, you can dial it back a little or turn it off completely.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:27 AM   #9
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Torque management can be shut off, yes, but you do not want to do that on the shifts, just adjust it, especially when the car is making 700+ HP. You want some TQE MGMT in there so the tranny can properly negotiate the shifts while pulling some advance. Then dial in line pressures/volumes and it hits are hard as you would want/need!

TQE MGMT is mainly a product of pulling ignition timing but it is also applied with closing the throttle blade as can active handling when things get sideways. You do not want to mess with the TAC on these cars in the tune as it can ruin the PCM.

In short, the car will always quickly obtain 100% ETC and timing can be dialed to allow it be fully commanded and follow the high octane table pretty easily. Pull a little on ths shifts, which actually does kind of mimic the advance on a carb car, just for longevity sake. You will be no faster with 0% TQE MGMT on the shifts vs a little applied with the correct line and clutch pressures.

My .02
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS View Post
Not sure about timing and fuel, but I remember when the 5th Gen first came out and GM High Tech performance put one on a dyno, they remarked as to the difference between the throttle body % open and gas pedal input immediately after shifts. I forget the exact numbers, but with the throttle at 100%, the throttle body would only be around 25-30% and then climb to the full 100%.....it was quick, but noticeable.

I'll post a link when I find the article.

Please do post that link. Could have been the scanner PID they were using.
Some TAC motors open throttle blades more aggresively than others but on the dyno you are making a pull in one gear. After the hit the throttle is 100% or close to hit and steady, unless they didn't immediately turn off stability control....
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KD Innovations View Post
Please do post that link. Could have been the scanner PID they were using.
Some TAC motors open throttle blades more aggresively than others but on the dyno you are making a pull in one gear. After the hit the throttle is 100% or close to hit and steady, unless they didn't immediately turn off stability control....
I'll try to track it down today when I get more slack time.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:30 PM   #12
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So.....do you tuners tweak Torque Management when you tune a car??? Not looking for proprietary info....just a simple yes or no.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:37 PM   #13
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No luck, I can't seem to find the article I was referencing.

...I'll find it......eventually...I hope!
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:46 PM   #14
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We tweaked on TM all day Saturday at the track. The ZL1 we are trying to dial in is making 750RWHP and the car is a standard trans.

If we launched in anything softer that the race setting on the ride control it would pull a grait deal of timing. No matter what ride setting you are in the car pulls timing on evey shift, the car also pulls timing if you try to do a 2and gear burn out. Talk about a rats nest!!!! I am now wondering if the water / meth injection is causing the computer to freak out. The N2O inner cooler spray bar effects the IT temps and this effects the timing also. I will never complain about the tuning on my C6 again because the ZL1 looks like the Tax code when you start digging around.
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